Is there dislike towards EV drivers in the UK?

[Battpower]

I love cars - which is what got me into the Tesla

Same.

Trouble is part of what I like is being able to fix stuff, which is generally harder the newer the car.

And Tesla's ownership model does little to support competent DIY.

 

[Exy1]

Let’s ignore all the sarcy comments and get back to what I was saying: someone else was comparing the BMW M3 to a SR+ and I was pointing out you couldn’t as the beemer was just superior in every way.

Maybe your Tesla fandom has blinded you. Maybe you don’t act as much of an ass hat in real life as you do over a message board but try seeing things objectively and without blinkers. You might sound less nasty then. You need to have a think before you post.

btw I chose the Model 3 performance above its German counterparts because of the tech, the running costs and the chance to own what may be the future of transportation. I’m just pointing out you can’t be blinkered and the BMW M3 has so many features that make it better than the model 3. Your snide, facetious, comments don’t actually stop that being true.

You continually make rash comments with words like 'better' & 'superior' in them and you accuse ME of acting like 'an ass hat'.

YOU suggest I should try to see things objectively and without blinkers yet you are guilty of totally ignoring your own advice.

I was an early adopter of EV's as I actually bought a 2013 Gen 1 Leaf WITH my own money.

So fair to say I have had all/most of the idiotic conversations with closed mind individuals similar to your self who feel duty bound to extoll the virtues of their ICE. They will pick something that the EV can't do such as drive 600 miles on a tank full of energy then spend an age explaining they simply couldn't manage without a vehicle that won't perform their chosen metric. As a 50+ year old male I can honestly say that while the vehicle may be able to drive for 600 miles without stopping I certainly can't, so for the various stops required Tesla have introduced the Super Charger Network thereby negating the range advantage/disadvantage at least for the infinitesimally small number of journeys the vast majority of people will ever do of that distance.

Here is a statement for you; We had two Nissan Leafs from July 2013 to Jan 2017 and covered a total of 22,500 miles for a total cost to ME of approximately £55 for electrickery, servicing was free and I never needed tyres etc. also insurance was comparative. It wasn't our only car BUT it was our principal car. That my deluded friend is 'Better' AND 'Superior' to ANYTHING else I can dream up.

Fast forward to 2020 and we are still listening to the same old nonsense only this time it has now swung from range issues as they are pretty much solved to my ICE is Better/Superior,,,,,,,,,JUST BECAUSE, feel free to insert whatever daft reason you can NOW dream up.

AND YOU accuse me of being sarcastic

P.S. Tesla fandom hasn't blinded me but I suspect I may have come down with a case of EV fandom which a Tesla salve may cure!

 

[Neilio]

You continually make rash comments with words like 'better' & 'superior' in them and you accuse ME of acting like 'an ass hat'.

YOU suggest I should try to see things objectively and without blinkers yet you are guilty of totally ignoring your own advice.

I was an early adopter of EV's as I actually bought a 2013 Gen 1 Leaf WITH my own money.

So fair to say I have had all/most of the idiotic conversations with closed mind individuals similar to your self who feel duty bound to extoll the virtues of their ICE. They will pick something that the EV can't do such as drive 600 miles on a tank full of energy then spend an age explaining they simply couldn't manage without a vehicle that won't perform their chosen metric. As a 50+ year old male I can honestly say that while the vehicle may be able to drive for 600 miles without stopping I certainly can't, so for the various stops required Tesla have introduced the Super Charger Network thereby negating the range advantage/disadvantage at least for the infinitesimally small number of journeys the vast majority of people will ever do of that distance.

Here is a statement for you; We had two Nissan Leafs from July 2013 to Jan 2017 and covered a total of 22,500 miles for a total cost to ME of approximately £55 for electrickery, servicing was free and I never needed tyres etc. also insurance was comparative. It wasn't our only car BUT it was our principal car. That my deluded friend is 'Better' AND 'Superior' to ANYTHING else I can dream up.

Fast forward to 2020 and we are still listening to the same old nonsense only this time it has now swung from range issues as they are pretty much solved to my ICE is Better/Superior,,,,,,,,,JUST BECAUSE, feel free to insert whatever daft reason you can NOW dream up.

AND YOU accuse me of being sarcastic

P.S. Tesla fandom hasn't blinded me but I suspect I may have come down with a case of EV fandom which a Tesla salve may cure!

That's a random rant for a Tuesday morning! Very funny though. Lets loop back to what I was saying as you have become confused. I said the BMW M3 was superior to the Tesla Model 3 SR+. I stand by that. Certainly in build quality and handling terms. Also in equipment terms, list of options, dealer network, etc...

I enjoyed your over the top little rant, but you've strayed a bit too much from my comment really.

 

[Jason71]

That's a random rant for a Tuesday morning! Very funny though. Lets loop back to what I was saying as you have become confused. I said the BMW M3 was superior to the Tesla Model 3 SR+. I stand by that. Certainly in build quality and handling terms. Also in equipment terms, list of options, dealer network, etc...

I enjoyed your over the top little rant, but you've strayed a bit too much from my comment really.

I am enjoying this also. I have always felt what this Tesla forum lacked was a comparison of a Mk1 leaf and a BMW M3. So I am now happy

Nellio. There is actually a refreshing lack of fanboyism on this site but if you go on a forum and say that another car is "just superior in every way" to one of the cars in the name of the forum you are probably going to get a bit of push back which may end up obscuring any valid points you may be making. just sayin.

 

[Neilio]

I am enjoying this also. I have always felt what this Tesla forum lacked was a comparison of a Mk1 leaf and a BMW M3. So I am now happy

Nellio. There is actually a refreshing lack of fanboyism on this site but if you go on a forum and say that another car is "just superior in every way" to one of the cars in the name of the forum you are probably going to get a bit of push back which may end up obscuring any valid points you may be making. just sayin.

Fair point. And I expected push back. I just didn’t expect it to be so OTT and ignore my comparison and go completely off on a tangent.

TBH I love tesla and in 2 weeks I’ll own one but I’m not going to hold back on my feelings if I think something is better. Still I love the difference of opinion you get on a message board and I honestly do believe, apart from running costs, the BMW has the Tesla beat. Good motivation for Tesla to improve for the next ten of cars though. Let’s see how good they are when gigaberlin opens and the cars are engineered to the same standards!

 

[KennethS]

Fair point. And I expected push back. I just didn’t expect it to be so OTT and ignore my comparison and go completely off on a tangent.

TBH I love tesla and in 2 weeks I’ll own one but I’m not going to hold back on my feelings if I think something is better. Still I love the difference of opinion you get on a message board and I honestly do believe, apart from running costs, the BMW has the Tesla beat. Good motivation for Tesla to improve for the next ten of cars though. Let’s see how good they are when gigaberlin opens and the cars are engineered to the same standards!

But they won't be, will they? The Tesla will not have the myriad of options you can spec from BMW or the "extensive" dealer network you seem to covet. I have owned various "luxury" car brands and have had mixed experiences on build quality and reliability, not to mention servicing costs and my satisfaction with dealer experiences. I am thoroughly happy with my Tesla and, in fact, am looking forward to the release of the Model Y here so I can ditch our "luxury" brand SUV.

 

[Neilio]

But they won't be, will they? The Tesla will not have the myriad of options you can spec from BMW or the "extensive" dealer network you seem to covet. I have owned various "luxury" car brands and have had mixed experiences on build quality and reliability, not to mention servicing costs and my satisfaction with dealer experiences. I am thoroughly happy with my Tesla and, in fact, am looking forward to the release of the Model Y here so I can ditch our "luxury" brand SUV.

No, options wise they won't be, as it doesn't fit into Tesla's current business model. I'd take the build quality, on average, of any similarly priced German car against a Tesla though. Like I said, hopefully when they are screwed together by German engineers they'll be a bit better. US cars always have an issue with build quality. I had a Camaro hire car last year that rattled so much it felt like a family of mice were stuck in the boot.
Don't get me wrong, I've sacrificed the build quality of a big mer for my Tesla, but lets not kid ourselves, it IS a sacrifice. People by teslas for other reasons and build quality can not be on the list. It's fine for now, but if the big guns stop up their battery and self drive tech, Tesla will have to step up their engineering. Imagine if you could get an established brand with the same battery, charging and self drive tech as a tesla? You'd go for that every time

 

[EVMeister]

Imagine if you could get an established brand with the same battery, charging and self drive tech as a tesla? You'd go for that every time

Imagine being the operative word here. There will likely be enough to differentiate Tesla vehicles from others for a very long time. They have their own brand loyalty, like other brands, and this is built on their vision and "the mission" rather than traditional factors. EVs are a growing market and Tesla are scaling up production to satisfy that in a way that others simply aren't and can't. So what you'll find is competitive products from these "established brands" are far more effective at displacing other ICE vehicles from said manufacturer than giving Tesla any real demand issues.

Having said that, I get what you're saying. There's certainly room for improvement when it comes to Tesla's build quality. I'm sure they'll do what's required to address this, especially if they see it affect their bottom line. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the vehicles that come out of Giga Berlin do in that respect. And also these interesting new paint colours - something that comes with the territory with the BMWs of the world, but that has never been a factory option with Tesla vehicles.

 

[Jason71]

Imagine being the operative word here. There will likely be enough to differentiate Tesla vehicles from others for a very long time. They have their own brand loyalty, like other brands, and this is built on their vision and "the mission" rather than traditional factors. EVs are a growing market and Tesla are scaling up production to satisfy that in a way that others simply aren't and can't. So what you'll find is competitive products from these "established brands" are far more effective at displacing other ICE vehicles from said manufacturer than giving Tesla any real demand issues.

Having said that, I get what you're saying. There's certainly room for improvement when it comes to Tesla's build quality. I'm sure they'll do what's required to address this, especially if they see it affect their bottom line. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the vehicles that come out of Giga Berlin do in that respect. And also these interesting new paint colours - something that comes with the territory with the BMWs of the world, but that has never been a factory option with Tesla vehicles.

Its funny when you have threads on other EV's like the PS2. Instead of rampant fanboyism you see in the US most people here are (not so secretly) hoping they will at least be within striking distance of Tesla so that Tesla have to up their game, mainly in the build quality and Customer Service Dept and if they don't give them somewhere else worth jumping ship to in a year or two.
What kind of mindless devotees are you!!!!

 

[Jason71]

Fair point. And I expected push back. I just didn’t expect it to be so OTT and ignore my comparison and go completely off on a tangent.

TBH I love tesla and in 2 weeks I’ll own one but I’m not going to hold back on my feelings if I think something is better. Still I love the difference of opinion you get on a message board and I honestly do believe, apart from running costs, the BMW has the Tesla beat. Good motivation for Tesla to improve for the next ten of cars though. Let’s see how good they are when gigaberlin opens and the cars are engineered to the same standards!

Allegedly the Chinese build ones are already much better than the ones built in a tent in the California desert.
Given that there are plenty of US built M3s in China it would be interesting for someone to get one of each and do an in depth side by side inspection/comparison to see if really is true.

 

[darkNstormy]

I've only just got through one load of popcorn reading this thread. Better go out and get some more. BTW if anyone's going to the Lakes, Grasmere gingerbread shop do really nice gingerbread popcorn.

 

[EVMeister]

I've only just got through one load of popcorn reading this thread. Better go out and get some more. BTW if anyone's going to the Lakes, Grasmere gingerbread shop do really nice gingerbread popcorn.

Damn it. I mentioned this to my wife and now she seems to be ordering the whole shop online.

 

[Doofty]

German build quality isn't as impressive as you might think. While it's not going to be the most reliable list, it's probably a good general indicator. My M3 isn't perfect, not by a long way, plenty of slightly misaligned bits, but once you take 3 steps back, you can't tell. Above all, I actually don't care.

If I had to make a bet, I know where my money will be when comparing a 10-year-old BMW/Mercedes to a 10-year-old M3 in a few years time.

There is no way a mechanical device with 1000s of moving parts that handle explosions is going to do as well as an electric motor and battery combination in terms of reliability. Sure the battery will decrease in capacity, but so will the efficiency of the ICE engine. The only thing I'm worried about is the electronics, these seem to break in every car I've ever owned.

 

[Exy1]

That's a random rant for a Tuesday morning! Very funny though. Lets loop back to what I was saying as you have become confused. I said the BMW M3 was superior to the Tesla Model 3 SR+. I stand by that. Certainly in build quality and handling terms. Also in equipment terms, list of options, dealer network, etc...

I enjoyed your over the top little rant, but you've strayed a bit too much from my comment really.

Certainly ONE of us is confused, actually possibly more than one of us as YOU have said a LOT of things LOL.

You said, and I quote "the beemer was just superior in every way".

And I have no doubt if you picked your selection criteria carefully, which we will never fully know going by your earlier posts, you may well be correct BUT you continually miss the point by quoting YOUR OPINION as fact.

I wonder what response you would get if you popped on to a BMW forum and started spouting similar nonsense that "The Tesla is superior in every way over a BMW M3" which as I have intimated above Could be FACTUALLY correct providing you picked your selection criteria to match your statements.

You seem hell bent on trying to find the Tesla short yet you claim to have bought one, NOW that's funny.

No matter how hard you try "Your snide, facetious, comments don’t actually stop that being true."

BMW has a LOT of competitors, Tesla, not so much.

For the record I have never owned either a Tesla or a BMW. I can't afford a Tesla, YET, but would love to own one. I could afford to own quite a few cars in BMW's range BUT I can safely say I will not become an owner anytime soon.

I am happy that my posts seem to amuse you, I'll be here all week.

 

[Exy1]

German build quality isn't as impressive as you might think. While it's not going to be the most reliable list, it's probably a good general indicator. My M3 isn't perfect, not by a long way, plenty of slightly misaligned bits, but once you take 3 steps back, you can't tell. Above all, I actually don't care.

If I had to make a bet, I know where my money will be when comparing a 10-year-old BMW/Mercedes to a 10-year-old M3 in a few years time.

There is no way a mechanical device with 1000s of moving parts that handle explosions is going to do as well as an electric motor and battery combination in terms of reliability. Sure the battery will decrease in capacity, but so will the efficiency of the ICE engine. The only thing I'm worried about is the electronics, these seem to break in every car I've ever owned.

It is easy to confuse 'Build quality' with 'Reliability'.

There is no doubt that AUDI's are beautifully built but as at least one road tester has said "You need somewhere nice to sit while you are waiting for the breakdown truck'.

My own personal experience is that almost without exception when I see a car broken down at the roadside it will be either French, Italian or German.

JLR get a really bad press for reliability however any that I ever see for sale (within my kinds of budget) have what I call star-ship mileage i.e. >120k so they must run for some of the time, mustn't they?

Then there are service costs. Anyone I know WITHOUT EXCEPTION quotes £800ish yearly service costs as normal for the German marques.
Whereas this forum seems to suggest there are Tesla's driving around for years that have never been near a service centre and Tesla don't bat an eyelid by saying they will still honour warrant commitments, or did I read that wrong.

Whatever you think of Tesla no one could fail to see what they are doing to the established car industry and I for one think it has been LONG overdue and can only be good for everyone.

 

[Exy1]

Imagine being the operative word here. There will likely be enough to differentiate Tesla vehicles from others for a very long time. They have their own brand loyalty, like other brands, and this is built on their vision and "the mission" rather than traditional factors. EVs are a growing market and Tesla are scaling up production to satisfy that in a way that others simply aren't and can't. So what you'll find is competitive products from these "established brands" are far more effective at displacing other ICE vehicles from said manufacturer than giving Tesla any real demand issues.

Having said that, I get what you're saying. There's certainly room for improvement when it comes to Tesla's build quality. I'm sure they'll do what's required to address this, especially if they see it affect their bottom line. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the vehicles that come out of Giga Berlin do in that respect. And also these interesting new paint colours - something that comes with the territory with the BMWs of the world, but that has never been a factory option with Tesla vehicles.

I remember a conversation amongst my biker buddies a long long time ago regarding an upcoming Harley Davidson purchase by one of them.

Despite Yamaha & Honda both making viable alternatives he wanted a Harley and there is only ONE person making those so a Harley it was. Tesla I reckon have similar followings for various reasons.

I have never owned an American car BUT my understanding is that they all are built to a standard that the Germans can surpass BUT they are still fit for purpose.

I hope Tesla don't decide to follow the German model of selling a billy-basic vehicle then gouge you senseless if you attempt to spec it in the least.

My daughter test drove a Q3 at the weekend and when I pressed the 'nav' button it said a visit to the dealer was necessary to activate it with presumably a hefty charge attached. I know Tesla already do this with heated rear seats so lets hope they don't get to like it!

 

[Peteski]

Or is the guy just a p***k

Simply this ^

 

[Jason71]

Certainly ONE of us is confused, actually possibly more than one of us as YOU have said a LOT of things LOL.

You said, and I quote "the beemer was just superior in every way".

And I have no doubt if you picked your selection criteria carefully, which we will never fully know going by your earlier posts, you may well be correct BUT you continually miss the point by quoting YOUR OPINION as fact.

I wonder what response you would get if you popped on to a BMW forum and started spouting similar nonsense that "The Tesla is superior in every way over a BMW M3" which as I have intimated above Could be FACTUALLY correct providing you picked your selection criteria to match your statements.

You seem hell bent on trying to find the Tesla short yet you claim to have bought one, NOW that's funny.

No matter how hard you try "Your snide, facetious, comments don’t actually stop that being true."

BMW has a LOT of competitors, Tesla, not so much.

For the record I have never owned either a Tesla or a BMW. I can't afford a Tesla, YET, but would love to own one. I could afford to own quite a few cars in BMW's range BUT I can safely say I will not become an owner anytime soon.

I am happy that my posts seem to amuse you, I'll be here all week.

So just to be clear this (best ever on this forum) row over the relative merits of BMW's versus Teslas is happening between one person who has never owned a Tesla and one person who has never owned either?
So long as you are enjoying yourselves I guess that's the main thing

 

[Neilio]

Certainly ONE of us is confused, actually possibly more than one of us as YOU have said a LOT of things LOL.

You said, and I quote "the beemer was just superior in every way".

And I have no doubt if you picked your selection criteria carefully, which we will never fully know going by your earlier posts, you may well be correct BUT you continually miss the point by quoting YOUR OPINION as fact.

I wonder what response you would get if you popped on to a BMW forum and started spouting similar nonsense that "The Tesla is superior in every way over a BMW M3" which as I have intimated above Could be FACTUALLY correct providing you picked your selection criteria to match your statements.

You seem hell bent on trying to find the Tesla short yet you claim to have bought one, NOW that's funny.

No matter how hard you try "Your snide, facetious, comments don’t actually stop that being true."

BMW has a LOT of competitors, Tesla, not so much.

For the record I have never owned either a Tesla or a BMW. I can't afford a Tesla, YET, but would love to own one. I could afford to own quite a few cars in BMW's range BUT I can safely say I will not become an owner anytime soon.

I am happy that my posts seem to amuse you, I'll be here all week.

Another amusing rant. I tried to steer you back to why I said. I guess you just want to wander of on your own self righteous rant. Thanks for entertaining me though

 

[LongRanger]

None of this is getting my car to me any quicker. Who can fix that ? Do I complain to BMW or Nissan ? Regards, Confused.com.