Israel/Hamas conflict

[madodel]

Whispered in Gaza

A series of short animated videos of real audio interviews in 2022 by residents of Gaza of what its been like to live under Hamas. To those who express hate for all Palestinians listen to a few of these and get to know what oppression and fear they endure.

 

[madodel]

Israeli F-35 shoots down Houthi cruise missile

An Israeli Air Force (IAF) Lockheed Martin F-35I Adir combat aircraft shot down a cruise missile fired from Yemen by the Iranian-backed Ansar Allah group, known as Houthis.

 

[Skipdd]

WSJ Article “Russia’s Wagner Group May Provide Air Defense Weapon to Hezbollah, U.S. Intel Says”

Russia’s Wagner Group Plans to Send Air Defenses to Hezbollah, U.S. Says — The Wall Street Journal

Lebanese militant group could potentially create a second front against Israel

apple.news

It is clear that Russia / Ukraine is linked to the Israeli conflict. Reasons are pretty obvious - distraction and hopefully reduce support to UKR. It’s also clear to me what has to happen to stop it. More, not less support of UKR. Just like Russia sees it, so should we. If we want to help Israel, we need to increase our help for Ukraine.

I will cross post this in the other thread. It belongs in both.

 

[navguy12]

WSJ Article “Russia’s Wagner Group May Provide Air Defense Weapon to Hezbollah, U.S. Intel Says”

Russia’s Wagner Group Plans to Send Air Defenses to Hezbollah, U.S. Says — The Wall Street Journal

Lebanese militant group could potentially create a second front against Israel

apple.news

It is clear that Russia / Ukraine is linked to the Israeli conflict. Reasons are pretty obvious - distraction and hopefully reduce support to UKR. It’s also clear to me what has to happen to stop it. More, not less support of UKR. Just like Russia sees it, so should we. If we want to help Israel, we need to increase our help for Ukraine.

I will cross post this in the other thread. It belongs in both.

Another thing that I think will (eventually) help stop both conflicts is to create (market) conditions that make the commodities, that both Russia and Iran depend on to fund their countries, valueless.

The move to EVs ASAP will be part of those market conditions.

Thus, I cannot understand any of the anti EV positions of various interest groups that also claim to be pro Israel/anti Iran.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Another thing that I think will (eventually) help stop both conflicts is to create (market) conditions that make the commodities, that both Russia and Iran depend on to fund their countries, valueless.

The move to EVs ASAP will be part of those market conditions.

Thus, I cannot understand any of the anti EV positions of various interest groups that also claim to be pro Israel/anti Iran.

How much would we care about Israel if we didn't need Middle Eastern oil and gas?

 

[navguy12]

How much would we care about Israel if we didn't need Middle Eastern oil and gas?

Based on data I found in The Outlier, as a whole, the amount of Jewish Americans who regularly vote in presidential elections makes them an outsized interest group (IIRC that group is about 3% (?) of eligible voters but make up ~5% of voters who cast ballots).

Also, from that same source:

US Jews contribute half of all donations to the Democratic Party

Jewish donors give 25% of the Republican National Convention’s cash.

www.jpost.com

So, as a group, Jewish Americans cast a vote and also donate funds to various election campaigns.

And they always care very much about the fate of Israel.

 

[Skipdd]

Based on data I found in The Outlier, as a whole, the amount of Jewish Americans who regularly vote in presidential elections makes them an outsized interest group (IIRC that group is about 3% (?) of eligible voters but make up ~5% of voters who cast ballots).

Also, from that same source:

US Jews contribute half of all donations to the Democratic Party

Jewish donors give 25% of the Republican National Convention’s cash.

www.jpost.com

So, as a group, Jewish Americans cast a vote and also donate funds to various election campaigns.

And they always care very much about the fate of Israel.

Agree, and there is also something to be said about Israel being a democracy, and the birthplace of Christianity.

 

[Krash]

How much would we care about Israel if we didn't need Middle Eastern oil and gas?

I assume that we would care a lot more. There is no oil in Israel. And it’s not like our support for Israel endears us to the countries that have oil.

 

[indysurfer]

I assume that we would care a lot more. There is no oil in Israel. And it’s not like our support for Israel endears us to the countries that have oil.

Exactly!

It would be alot easier for the US to throw Israel under the bus years ago if our main concern was just cheap energy from OPEC nations.

 

[jabloomf1230]

How much would we care about Israel if we didn't need Middle Eastern oil and gas?

The price of oil is based on an international market. Any major conflict in the Middle East that impacts supply will raise oil and gasoline prices in NA. The US, Canada and Mexico cannot produce enough crude oil to compensate for losses in the Middle East. Even if they could, they probably don't have enough refinery capacity to impact price in a meaningful way.

 

[madodel]

Exactly!

It would be alot easier for the US to throw Israel under the bus years ago if our main concern was just cheap energy from OPEC nations.

Exactly. OPEC has used its near monopoly to punish western nations, and specifically the US that supported Israel. Everyone in their 60's or older should recall the oil embargo by OPEC after the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. Lines at gas stations, people running out of gas while waiting in those lines, even/odd rationing. Prices going from 3 gallons for a $1 plus green stamps and a free drinking glass, to a dollar a gallon and no freebies and mechanical gas pumps not being able to deal with more than 99.9 cent prices.

 

[indysurfer]

Ditto for Ukraine - would be much easier for the US and Europe to abandon Ukraine to Russia if our interests were just cheap oil. I believe the majority of US policy support for both Ukraine and Israel is primarily grounded in morality.

 

[Skipdd]

Another example identified of active Russian engagement, this time with Hamas.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720111864624066970

 

[madodel]

Another example identified of active Russian engagement, this time with Hamas.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720111864624066970

Chucking Putler out a window could be the easiest way to take the pure evil violence down a notch or two in the world.

 

[Skipdd]

Everytime I think I can’t be surprised by more depravity, I am proven wrong. I won’t post the X link to the author because it has a video in the thread below it. But here is the verbiage. You can search in X if you want more.

“Breaking News: Just now, #Hamas snipers have reportedly killed dozens of children and women on the streets, targeting those attempting to travel from north to south #Gaza and those displaying white flags as a sign of peace. Similar acts have previously been attributed to Palestinian and #Hezbollah terrorists in Syria. They do not want civilians to leave; they want to use them as human shields and kill anyone who attempts to leave. Hamas terrorists in Gaza will, as usual, blame #Israel because it is easy and there is media that accepts this propaganda.”

From Amjad Taha, X handle is @amjad25.

 

[navguy12]

Exactly. OPEC has used its near monopoly to punish western nations, and specifically the US that supported Israel. Everyone in their 60's or older should recall the oil embargo by OPEC after the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. Lines at gas stations, people running out of gas while waiting in those lines, even/odd rationing. Prices going from 3 gallons for a $1 plus green stamps and a free drinking glass, to a dollar a gallon and no freebies and mechanical gas pumps not being able to deal with more than 99.9 cent prices.

For context, the price of a barrel of oil in 1970 was under $2; by the end of 1973 it had risen to above $11 a barrel (page 199 from The Outlier).

I cannot imagine if in our times oil went from ~$85 (current situation) to $400 a barrel.

 

[navguy12]

The price of oil is based on an international market. Any major conflict in the Middle East that impacts supply will raise oil and gasoline prices in NA. The US, Canada and Mexico cannot produce enough crude oil to compensate for losses in the Middle East. Even if they could, they probably don't have enough refinery capacity to impact price in a meaningful way.

The effect on oil prices is one of the talking points in this essay from today’s Guardian:

It looks inevitable that the war in Gaza will spread. Is it? | Anatol Lieven

The Middle East is the greatest area of vulnerability for the United States, and many countries want to cause trouble

www.theguardian.com

 

[SmokyPeat]

The effect on oil prices is one of the talking points in this essay from today’s Guardian:

It looks inevitable that the war in Gaza will spread. Is it? | Anatol Lieven

The Middle East is the greatest area of vulnerability for the United States, and many countries want to cause trouble

www.theguardian.com

Anatol Lieven, the author of that article, has some interesting views on both Israel and Ukraine. He's not particularly supportive of Ukraine's efforts to gain back territory if you read some of his other writings. Not someone I take particularly seriously. Here's one article he's written about support for Ukraine recently:

Sacrificing the health of Western Europe for the sake of Ukraine?

The longer the US helps to prolong the war, it risks the stability of its strategic transatlantic interests.

responsiblestatecraft.org

Putin’s Genocidal War Is Not About America or Israel

Calling the Russian invasion a counter-insurgency isn’t just inaccurate; it’s also immoral, as it suggests that the Russians were, alas, compelled to engage in atrocities.

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[Skipdd]

Boy I hope this is true. Regardless, it is definitely helpful. If you missed it, the leader of Hezbolla announced that they were not interested in escalating the conflict.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720451655139758341

 

[bhzmark]

Musk has posted and reposted Jew-hatred on Twitter.
Musk has offered indirect support to terrorists.
I'm done doing business with him.

I watch the coverage of the war in mainstream and liberal media, and I am horrified. I canceled my New York Times subscription.

I don't expect to change the antisemites here into reasonable people. It's hard enough teaching morality to somebody in person. I cannot teach morality over an internet forum, and I'm not going to try.

It just comes down to this old joke: What do you call ten people willingly breaking bread with one Nazi? Eleven Nazis.

Wtf are you talking about?