Jigglypuff
Member
I think India has a rather large Hindu nationalism problem right now, but it's not nearly as bad as situation normal in the Middle East.
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Israel/Hamas conflict
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Hamas was founded in the late 1980s with its charter advocating violent hadith that Muslims need to fight and kill Jews, some of which predates Israel’s establishment in 1948. Hamas has always promoted policies directed at the Jewish state of Israel and killing Jews and Israelis around the world. Hamas’ charter cites the fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion as “proof” of a Zionist plot to control the world. Under some political recalculation, in 2017 Hamas issued a new charter changing the word “Jew” to “Zionist”.
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Some perspective:
-in 2006 Gazans elected Hamas with a large 44% plurality of voters; many Gazans alive today were too young to vote then or were not even born yet
-in 1932 the Nazi party reached peak popularity at 37% of the national vote; at that time Hitler called on President Hindenburg to name him chancellor; 4 months later in November, Hindenberg scheduled another parliamentary election where Hitler’s Nazis lost a punishing 2 million votes compared to the vote earlier in the year; Hindenberg thought with the weakened Nazi party they would be controllable and proceeded to name Hitler chancellor; many Germans alive later during WW2 were too young to vote for the Nazis when they earlier swept to power or were not yet born
-it is estimated that 350,000 to 500,000 German civilians were killed by Allied strategic bombings
-Germans did not systemically make use of their own civilians as human shields
The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. (Hamas Charter, Article 13).
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter).
The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [holy possession] consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part or abandon it or any part of it. (Hamas Charter, Article 11).
Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Muslim wherever he may be. (Hamas Charter, Article 13).
You are being redirected...
Some perspective:
-in 2006 Gazans elected Hamas with a large 44% plurality of voters; many Gazans alive today were too young to vote then or were not even born yet
-in 1932 the Nazi party reached peak popularity at 37% of the national vote; at that time Hitler called on President Hindenburg to name him chancellor; 4 months later in November, Hindenberg scheduled another parliamentary election where Hitler’s Nazis lost a punishing 2 million votes compared to the vote earlier in the year; Hindenberg thought with the weakened Nazi party they would be controllable and proceeded to name Hitler chancellor; many Germans alive later during WW2 were too young to vote for the Nazis when they earlier swept to power or were not yet born
-it is estimated that 350,000 to 500,000 German civilians were killed by Allied strategic bombings
-Germans did not systemically make use of their own civilians as human shields
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In Islam there is a violent minority who keeps the rest cowed. This doesn't just happen in religious groups. It happens in any group where there is a violent minority who makes it very costly for anyone to speak up against them. Especially people within the same group.
On their rise in Germany the Nazis made it very dangerous to speak out against them. To some degree that's happening right now in one party in the US.
Spot on.
So I don't buy the deafening narrative that is thrown at the rest of us at every instant, "Not all Muslims are extremists. Only a small misguided ones take to extremism and violence. Islam is a peaceful religion". Superficially that is true. But the so called moderates looking the other way when their highly vocal extremist section of the population represses people of other faiths, that silence only acts as wind beneath the wings for these extremists
Take for instance Gaza. Most of the population took so much celebratory mood right after Oct 7. How is that considered "peaceful" ?
But these same 'silent' moderates will become extremely vocal and whip out the victim card the moment they perceive Islam is under threat
Europeans who think that their less than 5% Muslim population today is not a cause for alarm, should look at history in many other parts of the world. Lebanon is a great example. A even better example is India, Malaysia, Indonesia. If a community that is supposedly only 5% of the population could create such radicals and trouble, just look what might happen when they reach 10%? at 15% there is no turning back.
People who look at Palestinian-Israel conflict thru the lens of land dispute are myopic and completely mistaken. This is a clash of cultures, civilization, ideology and upbringing. Put a Muslim population right next to people of other faiths, you are going to have friction and conflict in any part of the world. This is not an opinion, but just plain historical anecdotal fact. You can see this play out at a micro level within neighborhoods of a city and also at a macro level between two nation states. In all of those cases in the end only one stands. The other will get assimilated (aka converted) or eliminated.
Islam demographic expert warns that once Muslims hit 16% of the population of your country, there is no way to stop it from becoming an Islamic nation.... | By Pushpendra KulshresthaFacebook
Islam demographic expert warns that once Muslims hit 16% of the population of your country, there is no way to stop it from becoming an Islamic nation....www.facebook.com
I'm not sure I believe that 16%. Israel today is 18% Muslim. Israel has a problem with Islam, but it's from the outside, not the inside.
Speech from a Dutch politician, delivering the chilling reality of the inevitable death of Europe, in her CPAC address.
dhrivnak
Active Member
This is based in white supremacy. White people look different from people from other parts of the world because humans have the least genetic diversity among all primates. We're inbred like all the breeds of dogs that came out of wild wolves. This inbreeding probably happened because humans were on the edge of extinction after the Toba super-volcano erupted 70,000 years ago.
Toba catastrophe theory - Wikipedia
Chimps have vastly more genetic diversity than humans have
https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/13/11/evab247/6426081
Genetic diversity in humans and non-human primates and its evolutionary consequences - PubMed
The human population will probably start to get browner as recessive genes in somewhat isolated populations get bred out. But some will remain. We still have redheads, mostly in European populations, but also seen in some other pockets around the world.
What religion people believe is not genetic and religion changes from generation to generation. Of the European populations, the UK has been letting in non-white people the longest. Quite a number of Muslims from Pakistan and other places have emigrated there. The children of those immigrants aren't always keeping their religion. The UK has a number of native born Muslims whose attitudes have been moderated from their parents by the largely secular culture. A number are Muslim in name only.
The US has had a broad mix of ethnicities and religions from the start. Up until recent years the bulk of immigrants were Christian and European, but the west coast had a significant East Asian population from early on when Americans started settling there. The Southwestern US has always had a large Hispanic population. There are people of Mexican descent whose families have been in Texas (and a few in other parts of the SW) since before the US was a country.
The US ended up with a broad mix of religions because the colonies were a dumping ground for minority religious groups in Europe that rulers wanted to get rid of. Then some of their descendants started new religions. Most of those were different types of Christianity, but now all. A lot of Jewish people moved to the US too. According to Wikipedia Israel has 6.9-7.4 million Jewish people and the US is 6-11.5 million.
I read a theory some years ago that there is a tipping point somewhere when a population reaches around 15-18% of the overall population where the dominant group in the population can't just ignore the minorities anymore. That doesn't mean the minority is going to take over but the minority is large enough they have to be addressed by the majority or there will be problems.
The problem that all developed countries are facing is that their native populations are in natural decline and there is staggering pressure from the developing world to get in. As the native population decline, there will be labor shortages without letting some of those people banking on the door in.
These new people will change their new home countries, but that's not necessarily an apocalyptic thing.
Tiger
Active Member
Jigglypuff
Member
The far left and the far right struggle for the crown when it comes to evil. Hard to tell them apart. They both demand ideological purity. Demands for ideological purity are the fastest way to make me want to punch somebody in the face (not you).
Muslims in Israel are unhappy with some parts of the Jewish state, but being in the middle east, they have a clear view of how Muslim nations are run. Then, for some reason, they stay in Israel.
I haven't watched JS in many years, since well before he left the Daily Show. I will say, though, that Biden cutting off weaponry and aid to Israel is the most boneheaded move Biden has made after a series of utterly boneheaded foreign policy moves. It's like he wants to lose the election to a guy who's likely to be in jail soon.
Tiger
Active Member
I don't think there is anything he can do to work around that, the math just isn't there.
Jigglypuff
Member
A lot of people do not want to vote for Trump. A lot of people do not want to vote for Biden. Neither of them are showing qualities that lessen that disgust so many feel. I know who the lesser of two evils is, but I don't like either of the choices. Worst election choices of the past 40+ years. The election system was made to be broken in order to protect slavery. It's still broken.
I don't think Trump would handle foreign policy any better. I think he did arguably much worse than Biden. I know people across the political spectrum praise the Abraham Accords, but I'm pretty sure they contributed to making the current mess even worse.
Bret Stephens lays out just how badly Biden just screwed everyone but Hamas: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/09/opinion/president-bidens-biggest-blunder.html
Tiger
Active Member
Yeah, and they are really trying to pull JFK Jr to the same level. I hope there's a dark horse. Anyhow, nuff politics.
See if you could brave 10,000 anti-Semites calling for your removal….you could learn a lot from Eden…we all could
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I fully agree with you about the extremes.
The likely Democratic voters are split on Israel. Millennials and GenZ lean more towards pro-Palestine and older voters lean more towards Israel. Likely Republican voters are mostly pro-Israel. Some Democrats are going to be upset with Biden regardless of what he does.
Biden's latest move is to limit Israel's access to offensive weapons they are using to bomb Gaza. He isn't limiting their access to defensive weapons such as SAMs.
Miles Taylor has recently published a book called Blowback. He was a political appointee in Homeland Security in both the Bush and Trump administration. He interviewed people from many other departments who were serving at the same time. There were a large number of people trying to hold everything together despite bad management at the top. He has observed that a 2nd Trump administration will not have any of those people in it. All appointees will be vetted for loyalty to the president first and competence second.
There are others who served in various mid-level appointee positions who are coming forward saying the same thing Taylor is.
I wouldn't believe Bret Stephens though. He hasn't proven to be all that credible a source.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea….it’s the same in Britain…the civil service are broadly left wing and see it as their duty to hold back the Conservative agenda as much as possible. Whatever we say about politicians, at least they come to us to ask permission every few years…civil servants, we are just lumbered with them
X Fan
Active Member
I'd go beyond the two aged flawed candidates (one at least got the Middle East policies right) & suggest that USA's political representation is the weakest in my lifetime (and is a self dealing corrupt bunch).
btw: this statement "the election system was made to be broken in order to protect slavery." is false.
When the proposal for the Electoral College was voted on during the Constitutional Convention, Northern states with a lower slave population, unanimously voted for the proposal; yet, with the exception of Virginia, the Southern states, with a higher population of slaves, voted against it.
I've always lived in high population states but have no problem with small states having a seat at the table, particularly in the Senate. It protects them from the tyranny of the bigger states (of course, under a different system, the Senator from USA's 2nd smallest state would have been an ignored, forgotten man and not today in a position of extreme power).
Worth a read: Debunking Myths and Misinformation
Jigglypuff
Member
The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
The Founding Fathers had something particular in mind when they set up the U.S. presidential election system: slavery
That heritage foundation link would barely pass as a high school ap exam essay.
A nation is made of people, not states. Few Americans identify with their states more than with the nation. This is different in other countries. A lot of middle eastern people identify with tribe over nations.
X Fan
Active Member
"Few Americans identify with their states more than with the nation"The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
The Founding Fathers had something particular in mind when they set up the U.S. presidential election system: slaverytime.com
That heritage foundation link would barely pass as a high school ap exam essay.
A nation is made of people, not states. Few Americans identify with their states more than with the nation. This is different in other countries. A lot of middle eastern people identify with tribe over nations.
Militarily or foreign policy wise but when it comes to local day-to-day life, the majority of Americans will always focus on the local/state level first.
btw: sorry, facts are facts, regardless of the source delivery. I'd bet that your dismissal of that periodical aligns with your strong political views versus basis in fact (I derive mine from subscribing/reading and understanding both sides of the spectrum and ignore the rhetoric of the fringes of both ). That brief article delineates facts regardless of your dismissal.
