It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[vfx]

Gold, platinum and oxygen lead to lighter, more powerful lithium-air batteries - Autoblog Green

The researchers are currently searching for less expensive alloys to use as electrodes.

Ya think?

 

[TEG]

Electric vehicles: Sprouting a new industry | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

 

[TEG]

 

[JRP3]

They seem completely unaware of what current batteries are capable of

 

[vfx]

They seem completely unaware of what current batteries are capable of

I was thinkin that. Livin in a vacuum.

 

[Iz]

Another article on batteries. It actually echoes the name of this thread.

At Witz' End - It's the Battery, Stupid! — Autoblog Green

The going OEM rate for li-ion packs today is an estiimated $1,000-1,200 per kWh. At the lower end of that range, Volt's pack is a $16K bill and Leaf's $24K -- 80 percent of (my) estimated price for the car. Both companies insist they will not pay anywhere near that much, especially once they're building their own packs, but lop that in half to $500/kWh, and it's still $8K and $12K!

So the $250/kWh long-term target that automakers have used for future planning is not likely to be achieved by 2020 without a "major breakthrough in battery chemistry that substantially increases the energy a battery can store without significantly increasing the cost of either battery materials or the manufacturing process."

 

[T@oo]

Those 2020 projections for North America are based on six modeled values: $100/barrel oil; $400/kWh battery cost; 150 Wh/kg energy density; 13,673 annual miles; no added gas tax; and no incentives.

Even more bull. The first three values are nearly current values. So they expect nothing out of 10 years worth of research and development.

 

[JRP3]

Another article on batteries. It actually echoes the name of this thread.

At Witz' End - It's the Battery, Stupid! — Autoblog Green

Already linked, and pretty much ignored since it contained so much misinformation: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/battery-discussion/1156-its-batteries-stupid-31.html#post42152

 

[Iz]

Already linked, and pretty much ignored since it contained so much misinformation

My apologies. I looked for the link and missed the 3/08/2010 posting.

 

[DRM]

Tesla receives first 3.1Ah cells

ABG is reporting that Tesla has taken delivery of their first lot of 3.1Ah cells from Panasonic! I'm crossing my fingers they'll offer an upgraded ESS for the roadster .... but I expect I'll have to wait till after model-S production.

ABG LINK

 

[dpeilow]

U.S. Allots $34 Million to Research Ways to Improve Electric Car Batteries


Some of the usual next-gen suspects, plus some really interesting sounding stuff all getting funds.

 

[JRP3]

Not happy to see our money spent on this one:

ReVolt Technology LLC
Portland, Ore.
$5,000,335
Zinc air-flow battery: A large, high-energy zinc air-flow battery will be developed to enable long range plug-in hybrid and all-electric vehicles. Zinc, suspended as a slurry, is stored in a tank and transported through tubes to charge and discharge the battery.

I don't see that fitting in a vehicle very well.

 

[TEG]

ReVolt mentioned here

 

[Norbert]

They keep working on those Lithium-Air batteries...

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25503/?a=f

 

[malcolm]

ABG is reporting that Tesla has taken delivery of their first lot of 3.1Ah cells from Panasonic! I'm crossing my fingers they'll offer an upgraded ESS for the roadster .... but I expect I'll have to wait till after model-S production.

ABG LINK

IIRC the cells in the Roadster are 2.2Ah, so in theory 3.1 might translate to a 40% range increase. (Which would give around 340 miles in Range Mode!!) The problem is that the recommended dischage rates are likely to be different.

So yes, you could get more range but the necessary current drain for the usual roadster performance would probably diminish the calendar life of the pack more rapidly.

This is fine for Model S since it's not intended to hit 60mph in under 4 seconds etc.

Good for the smart too.

 

[Hells]

40% increase, same as the new iPhone Its a very large increase, does battery tech really move this fast?

 

[dpeilow]

This slide is quite interesting:

 

[doug]

The top half isn't particularly meaningful. The bottom half, though...
I'm curious what factors went in there. I don't think it's the wholesale price of the cells alone. Perhaps it includes Tesla's learning curve on cell packaging and/or what deals they're able to get from cell manufacturers. Does "Roadster 1.0" mean the cost in 2008 or sometime earlier?

 

[Doug_G]

The top half isn't particularly meaningful. The bottom half, though...
I'm curious what factors went in there. I don't think it's the wholesale price of the cells alone. Perhaps it includes Tesla's learning curve on cell packaging and/or what deals they're able to get from cell manufacturers. Does "Roadster 1.0" mean the cost in 2008 or sometime earlier?

Tesla has been saying that the battery pack costs about $30k. If they have got it down to 69% of that, then presumably the pack now costs $20k. If that's the case then the $12k battery replacement option isn't looking like such a good deal.

 

[EV_de]

...Tesla has taken delivery of their first lot of 3.1Ah cells from Panasonic ...

since TM and Mercedes (Daimler) are Partners (somehow) may TM get access to
Mercedes Batterie manufacturer litec and his Flat Powerful lithium ion batteries with ceramic seperator.

Li-Tec drives jointly with the strategic partners Evonik and Daimler the mass production of high performance cells for passenger cars and utility vehicles.

a few benefits:

- Flat packs , better fits
- less cells
- better heating / cooling , cause they flat

[YOUTUBE]m81jn8MnPXk[/YOUTUBE]