Just a Place Keeper to See if I Am Right About the Future of AP1

[whitex]

Eye,
This is pretty much my experience and so I have started to refuse "improvements". I stopped by my service center and asked if I could remove the daily nag message. I was told no. I'm now looking into other alternatives.

The safest way to refuse updates is to disable your 3G/LTE and WiFi (disconnect the antenna's?). Simply refusing updates leaves your car running old software with security holes which are patched in latest software but can be exploited on the old. By cutting your car off from the internet you accomplish no updates, but also limit your exposure of getting hacked (or even infected with some random malware never originally intended for a Tesla but somehow able to take over whatever open source browser Tesla may be using).

 

[jeffro01]

I think the OP is grossly overreacting... Haven't had time to read the whole thread but they simply can't disable/remove autopilot as a liability without refunding the cost back to owners...

Jeff

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

To me what it really all boils down to is whether they succeed or fail at improving AP/TACC/AEB to stop for a stalled car or a large immobile object.

If they're able to with 8.1 then I don't expect to see additional restrictions. But, I'm not expecting that this will transpire. Instead I feel like Tesla will do what they can (within reason) to minimize it's use outside of freeways.

It's also important to note that Tesla is supposedly removing/reworking one restriction they added. This is the one where it suddenly slows to 50mph. They are because it doesn't do what it's supposed to. It's supposed to slow the car in situations where you want to slow down (like an emergency vehicle on the shoulder), but it doesn't work and caused so many issues that they have to be pulling it.

This is a good example of a bunch of users complaining, and forcing Tesla to address it. With the initial 8.0 we didn't really have a large amount of owners against the restrictions. But, after 8.0 we now have a lot of users really opposed to any additional limitations.

I think Tesla is starting to get the message that AP1 owners won't take anymore restrictions.

 

[green1]

I think the OP is grossly overreacting... Haven't had time to read the whole thread but they simply can't disable/remove autopilot as a liability without refunding the cost back to owners...

Jeff

But what's the limit between "disable" and "make completely useless" do they still have a blank cheque to do the latter without refund? What about if they simply never deliver any of the features they promised?

So far they've avoided delivering what they promised, and they've actively removed functionally they did deliver, yet nobody has recieved a refund. How far can they go? Tesla sends intent on finding out.

 

[AWDtsla]

I think the OP is grossly overreacting... Haven't had time to read the whole thread but they simply can't disable/remove autopilot as a liability without refunding the cost back to owners...

Jeff

Yes they can.

 

[Cerie]

I think the OP is grossly overreacting... Haven't had time to read the whole thread but they simply can't disable/remove autopilot as a liability without refunding the cost back to owners...

Jeff

Technically the first couple hundred/maybe thousand owners of AP1 cars, myself included, didn't pay for it. I ordered my car two months or so before the Autopilot/D announcement and just happened to have the hardware included when I took delivery.

 

[lolachampcar]

I think the OP is grossly overreacting... Haven't had time to read the whole thread but they simply can't disable/remove autopilot as a liability without refunding the cost back to owners...

Jeff

Jeff,
First, a very small amount of push back; please re-read the title of the thread along with the OP. It's a place keeper to see if the idea holds up over time.

Second, if you do not think Tesla is capable of reaching out and using undocumented code in over the air updates to remove functionality from a car then I suggest you read no more of this thread. If you continue to read, you will be disappointed if not disillusioned.



Overall, I ordered my car because of the performance (including 691ish hp) and autopilot described and demonstrated at the D announce. I'm perfectly happy if they would just leave it alone and would be even happier if they would roll out the added nags without removing the improved lane keeping that came with that update. If I had to choose, I'd accept the current nags for the benefit of the improved performance. Keep the Beta and loose the updating AP and I can forget the rest of the AP promises that were made at the launch (as in the fail is not enough to fight over - I'll chalk it up to education).

Lastly, I DO NOT WANT A REFUND. I am perfectly happy with my AP1 functionality and WANT to keep it just as is. I know it well, know when to trust it and use the heck out of it. Tesla is NOT FREE to buy it back from me unless the NTHSA determines it is unsafe for others on the road.

 

[oktane]

Many people purchased a Tesla solely for the autopilot functionality. Features should not be deprecated unless an alternative is provided. Realizing their autopilot didn't work well enough and then disabling functionality to limit product liability is screwing the customer. The same argument holds even if certain customers were abusing the functionality. All customers should not suffer because of a few idiots.

It's not unreasonable to expect the car you purchase to be as-good-as, if not better than the car you test drove, and to maintain at minimum that level of functionality.

What if one day Tesla decides the touch-screen is causing too many distractions, and disables it out of "a concern for safety"?

 

[St Charles]

Many people purchased a Tesla solely for the autopilot functionality. Features should not be deprecated unless an alternative is provided. Realizing their autopilot didn't work well enough and then disabling functionality to limit product liability is screwing the customer. The same argument holds even if certain customers were abusing the functionality. All customers should not suffer because of a few idiots.

It's not unreasonable to expect the car you purchase to be as-good-as, if not better than the car you test drove, and to maintain at minimum that level of functionality.

What if one day Tesla decides the touch-screen is causing too many distractions, and disables it out of "a concern for safety"?

I'd be more concerned with the steering wheel going away before the infotainment system. Either way, this isn't a good example as the infotainment system isn't disclosed as BETA. Summon and Autosteer are. They have been since the beginning. We all bought into that concept when we laid down the money, which was optional. Getting mad because feature sets are changing in software that isn't fully baked is asinine.

I believe the point of this thread is to track what AP1 will look like if/when it exits BETA.

 

[bhzmark]

I just did a long road trip and used updated firmware AP1 extensively and I have no idea what AP functionality is supposed to be missing. It works better than ever. I've adopted to a few changes -- like manually disabling AP before doing a high speed passing at > 90 mph, and more often using just TACC on undivided roads where Autosteer is not appropriate.

I honestly do not see what the complaints are -- especially when they seem to always be made with reference to wholly separate other issues (691 hp, launch mode).

AP1 as updated works great for me. And certainly better than all other alternatives in any other car (until AP2 gets fully baked).

 

[AWDtsla]

I have no idea what AP functionality is supposed to be missing.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[lolachampcar]

Or bhz is happy with what she/he has and the idea that Tesla can remove functionality without permission is not a problem for her/him. It's all good. Nothing for them to see here. Time to move along.

For what it is worth, I too was in the water off a duck's back camp on some of Tesla's actions and wondered why Green was getting so spooled up. I now understand. Green was right and just saw it before I did.

 

[roblab]

@roblab --Please be careful to quote and respond properly.


And to respond to that...

Tesla is not legally allowed to sell one set of features and then deliver less than that.

I was not quoting you. There are many on this forum who go around saying that Tesla "promised" to do this or that. But Tesla did not. Making a statement of intent is not a promise, and I, for one, get tired of hearing how Tesla cheated someone this way or another. Of course, you feel that those people are correct, but I think that if there was something more than a frivolous lawsuit, someone would sue and get paid.

Since it is obvious that that crowd is not going to sue, but just wants to air their opinions in hopes of getting people to side with them, I feel it is only fair that I can state my opinion, too.

 

[AWDtsla]

I was not quoting you. There are many on this forum who go around saying that Tesla "promised" to do this or that. But Tesla did not. Making a statement of intent is not a promise, and I, for one, get tired of hearing how Tesla cheated someone this way or another. Of course, you feel that those people are correct, but I think that if there was something more than a frivolous lawsuit, someone would sue and get paid.

Since it is obvious that that crowd is not going to sue, but just wants to air their opinions in hopes of getting people to side with them, I feel it is only fair that I can state my opinion, too.

People have been, and they have been winning. But it does not matter, most people don't feel like going through the process of filing a lawsuit. A customer feels that they didn't get what they paid for is not going to be a repeat customer, and is not going to evangelize your product.

 

[roblab]

People have been, and they have been winning. But it does not matter, most people don't feel like going through the process of filing a lawsuit. A customer feels that they didn't get what they paid for is not going to be a repeat customer, and is not going to evangelize your product.

So, yes. Slam your Tesla. Maybe someone will listen and refrain from buying such a pack of lies.

On the flip side, I have nothing but good to say about my car. It could be a personality difference. But I too share my experiences, and I personally know of several Teslas in which sales I have been instrumental.

As to those who are winning lawsuits, bully for them! It is normal for a startup company to make mistakes, and Tesla tries to make its customers happy. But it's like having a child who keeps saying "you promised I could have ice cream", when you simply were looking at it in the store. People do not always understand each other.

My main desire here is that the group that feels they have to bad mouth Tesla would go somewhere else. What they are doing is not helpful or productive.

 

[green1]

My main desire here is that the group that feels they have to bad mouth Tesla would go somewhere else. What they are doing is not helpful or productive.

And therein lies the difference. Our argument stands on facts. Yours stands on telling people to shut up and go away because you disagree with them.

This is a forum for all things Tesla, not only people who bow down and worship every move they make regardless of if it's right.

 

[AWDtsla]

My main desire here is that the group that feels they have to bad mouth Tesla would go somewhere else. What they are doing is not helpful or productive.

Au contraire. It is the people that see no problem with Tesla underdelivering on anything or everything that are the problem, otherwise Tesla would have learned from their mistakes long ago and stopped doing what they are doing. Tesla employs too many people and has way too much revenue to still count as a "startup". It's not a 15 man shop trying to get something out the door anymore.

 

[3Victoria]

These guys compared Mercedes-benz's Drive Pilot vs Tesla Autopilot, and liked AP much better. The War For Autonomous Driving: 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class VS. 2017 Tesla Model S

 

[3Victoria]

Au contraire. It is the people that see no problem with Tesla underdelivering on anything or everything that are the problem, otherwise Tesla would have learned from their mistakes long ago and stopped doing what they are doing. Tesla employs too many people and has way too much revenue to still count as a "startup". It's not a 15 man shop trying to get something out the door anymore.

It is still a company pushing the boundaries, and following its master plan parts 1&2. Cutting edge is tough. Hum-drum is easy. IF you don't want cutting edge, then buy a different car.

 

[green1]

These guys compared Mercedes-benz's Drive Pilot vs Tesla Autopilot, and liked AP much better. The War For Autonomous Driving: 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class VS. 2017 Tesla Model S

That was back in July, on 7.1, of COURSE they liked it better.
Do it again on 8.0 and we'll see if they still think so!