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Karma -vs- Model S

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by doug, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. ggr

    ggr Roadster 537, Sig P85

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    I agree. I have seen a few Karmas now, in the wild, and they are very very eye catching. I never got that from the photos.
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Funny... I've always found that the Karma looked better in pictures than it does in person. Go figure.
     
  3. pythagoras

    pythagoras Member

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    MSN First Drive review of Fisker Karma

    Seems like a fairly positive review overall, but not "car of the year" like Tesla's been winning:

    2012 Fisker Karma: First drive review - MSN Autos

    "
    If you're shopping for a new flagship luxury car, you ought to consider the Karma. While it may exhibit some quirks typical of an all-new vehicle from an all-new manufacturer, it's got a lot going for it as well. Jaw-dropping concept car looks alone make this quite a desirable ride, as do its competent road demeanor and well-featured, stylish cabin. That said, with nothing to directly compare it against, it's hard to know how to rate the Karma, other than that we were impressed on multiple levels. If you've got the spare change and want the best current example of the next generation of vehicles, then look no further. Otherwise, wait a few years and most major manufacturers will have a similar alternative on offer."

    I like that rear view photo of the Model S a couple pages back but you know it's different strokes for different folks. Sometimes the Model S looks like a cross between a Jag and Hyundai Sonata to me.

    My Karma is stunning always ;-)
     
  4. SoCalGuy

    SoCalGuy Member

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    Some more pics taken from Karma and Model S owner Dennis @ Fisker Buzz.

    EVsfront.jpg

    EVsside.jpg

    EVsrear.jpg
     
  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    So why was the Karma not included for MT COTY?
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Doesn't it have to be new or improved that year?
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    So the Karma qualified last year?

    Did it win?
     
  8. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    It was a contender last year but had so many glitches it was decided that the car wasn't really ready to be properly evaluated.

    Fiat 500/500C and Fisker Karma - 2012 Car of the Year Contenders - Motor Trend
    The car was definitely released before it was ready. Current owners seem happy, so it sounds like Fisker has worked out many of those issues. But it makes you wonder why Fisker didn't just wait a year. Shipping a glitchy car that wasn't ready for prime time has done a lot of damage to their brand.
     
  9. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.
    So they lost their only shot? If MT declared the Karma "not ready" then why not bring it back next (this) year giving them a pass.

    Just saying it would have been nice to have the two in a head to head.
     
  10. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Would have been nice to see a head to head. I guess Fisker was keen for the publicity last year to get to say "2012 Contender for Car of the Year" (at a time when they were supposed to have started shipping cars), but the article isn't exactly flattering. Maybe someone should ask Motor Trend if the Karma was considered for this year. Maybe they didn't make the cut this time.

    Goes to show how important timing is, though.
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Elon's MO is to release a bit early and fix later for sure, though this this time Tesla largely limited the incompleteness to software items that were not mission critical. I expect this pattern to repeat itself many times.
     
  12. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I was talking about the timing wrt MT COTY.

    Fisker got evaluated at a time when they were way overdue to start shipping and were clearly struggling with some engineering issues. They were still some months away from delivering cars to customers (that by their own admission were riddles with bugs). Submitting a car to MT at that time was (in my 20/20 hindsight opinion) a mistake.

    Tesla on the other hand, while also facing some delays and challenges, came to the table with a much more finished product and have already started deliveries.
     
  13. PRJIM

    PRJIM Member

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    The development timeline of the Fisker Karma should be compared with the Roadster, as they both were first gen products.
     
  14. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Ok. But my point was that the Karma would have been in a much better state to be evaluated for COTY this year (after delivering some product and working out some bugs) instead of last year. The timing turned out to be more favorable to the Model S.

    Of course, this year Fisker was plagued by series of unfortunate events (fires, bankruptcy of their battery supplier, etc) and I doubt the judges work in a total vacuum.
     
  15. DrTaras

    DrTaras R254->R725->S1364-->X769

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    #435 DrTaras, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    My guess is that there is strict criteria as to when you car can be entered.
    I'm pretty sure that COTY is not for ALL cars just "new" cars and it depends on what the meaning of the word is is!


    - - - Updated - - -

    I'll have to differ with you there. Still think that a 5+2 car should not be delivered as a 5+0 car and so there were more than some software glitches
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10525-Has-anyone-that-ordered-the-optional-jump-seats-had-their-car-delivered
     
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #436 vfx, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2012
    I used the word largely so I'm covered. :)
    When the +2 deliver (2013?), ask yourself, Should Tesla have waited to not deliver one car until that time thus missing many promised deadlines (now a public company) and have a factory robots and a thousand people waiting, or should they have only delivered cars that had not ordered those 2+ parts? That would go over well! And the absence of software features could not really be called "glitches". The Karma has "glitches".
     
  17. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Just to follow up on this, I tweeted Ed Loh and his response was "That's right. Fisker was in it last year... "
    Twitter / EdLoh: .@dougdirac @MotorTrend ...

    Didn't get any more clarification than that. At any rate, sounds like Fisker shoulda waited.
     
  18. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #438 vfx, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
    Sure enough

    2012-Car-of-the-Year-promo.jpg


    2012 Motor Trend Car of the Year Contender: Fisker Karma

    2012-Fisker-Karma-623x389.jpg
     
  19. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #439 doug, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Consumer Reports First Drive reviews



     
  20. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Dan Neil:

    Rumble Seat | Dan Neil on What He Got Wrong and Right in 2012 - WSJ.com

     

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