Karma -vs- Model S

[ggr]

Don't read too much into the pictures. It's hard to explain why, but the Karma is one of those things that really is MUCH better in person. When I brought my family to pick up my Karma in January, my parents really didn't understand why I was making such an impractical purchase (I spend most of my time in NYC, and am in LA two weekends or so per month...so the Karma was a splurge). But then when we got to the dealer, they saw the Karma in person (they had seen many many pics of it before), and then my mom said "I understand why now." Incidentally, the Model S in person is as it looks in the pictures - ditto on the Fisker Atlantic, which looks just like it does in the pictures. The Karma is a different beast - you gotta see it in person!

I agree. I have seen a few Karmas now, in the wild, and they are very very eye catching. I never got that from the photos.

 

[Doug_G]

Don't read too much into the pictures. It's hard to explain why, but the Karma is one of those things that really is MUCH better in person.

Funny... I've always found that the Karma looked better in pictures than it does in person. Go figure.

 

[pythagoras]

MSN First Drive review of Fisker Karma

Seems like a fairly positive review overall, but not "car of the year" like Tesla's been winning:

2012 Fisker Karma: First drive review - MSN Autos

"

If you're shopping for a new flagship luxury car, you ought to consider the Karma. While it may exhibit some quirks typical of an all-new vehicle from an all-new manufacturer, it's got a lot going for it as well. Jaw-dropping concept car looks alone make this quite a desirable ride, as do its competent road demeanor and well-featured, stylish cabin. That said, with nothing to directly compare it against, it's hard to know how to rate the Karma, other than that we were impressed on multiple levels. If you've got the spare change and want the best current example of the next generation of vehicles, then look no further. Otherwise, wait a few years and most major manufacturers will have a similar alternative on offer."​

I like that rear view photo of the Model S a couple pages back but you know it's different strokes for different folks. Sometimes the Model S looks like a cross between a Jag and Hyundai Sonata to me.

My Karma is stunning always ;-)

 

[SoCalGuy]

Some more pics taken from Karma and Model S owner Dennis @ Fisker Buzz.

 

[vfx]

So why was the Karma not included for MT COTY?

 

[AnOutsider]

Doesn't it have to be new or improved that year?

 

[vfx]

So the Karma qualified last year?

Did it win?

 

[doug]

So why was the Karma not included for MT COTY?

It was a contender last year but had so many glitches it was decided that the car wasn't really ready to be properly evaluated.

Fiat 500/500C and Fisker Karma - 2012 Car of the Year Contenders - Motor Trend

The driver-side A-pillar trim piece came off, and some outer panels warped in the desert sun. We had to be conscious of where we rested our left arms -- a sensitive door-release button was used in lieu of a handle, and a few editors inadvertently popped the driver's door onto its catch while in motion. The term "kit car" circulated our notes freely.

The powertrain had its issues as well, on occasion lagging considerably when it needed to switch into extended-range mode. Truthfully, it would be unfair to continue harping on the Karma. Our particular model wasn't ready to leave the nest, and thus gets to wait prettily until next time.

The car was definitely released before it was ready. Current owners seem happy, so it sounds like Fisker has worked out many of those issues. But it makes you wonder why Fisker didn't just wait a year. Shipping a glitchy car that wasn't ready for prime time has done a lot of damage to their brand.

 

[vfx]

It was a contender last year but had so many glitches it was decided that the car wasn't really ready to be properly evaluated.....

Interesting.
So they lost their only shot? If MT declared the Karma "not ready" then why not bring it back next (this) year giving them a pass.

Just saying it would have been nice to have the two in a head to head.

 

[doug]

Interesting.
So they lost their only shot? If MT declared the Karma "not ready" then why not bring it back next (this) year giving them a pass.

Just saying it would have been nice to have the two in a head to head.

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Would have been nice to see a head to head. I guess Fisker was keen for the publicity last year to get to say "2012 Contender for Car of the Year" (at a time when they were supposed to have started shipping cars), but the article isn't exactly flattering. Maybe someone should ask Motor Trend if the Karma was considered for this year. Maybe they didn't make the cut this time.

Goes to show how important timing is, though.

 

[vfx]

...

Goes to show how important timing is, though.

Elon's MO is to release a bit early and fix later for sure, though this this time Tesla largely limited the incompleteness to software items that were not mission critical. I expect this pattern to repeat itself many times.

 

[doug]

I was talking about the timing wrt MT COTY.

Fisker got evaluated at a time when they were way overdue to start shipping and were clearly struggling with some engineering issues. They were still some months away from delivering cars to customers (that by their own admission were riddles with bugs). Submitting a car to MT at that time was (in my 20/20 hindsight opinion) a mistake.

Tesla on the other hand, while also facing some delays and challenges, came to the table with a much more finished product and have already started deliveries.

 

[PRJIM]

I was talking about the timing wrt MT COTY.

Fisker got evaluated at a time when they were way overdue to start shipping and were clearly struggling with some engineering issues. They were still some months away from delivering cars to customers (that by their own admission were riddles with bugs). Submitting a car to MT at that time was (in my 20/20 hindsight opinion) a mistake.

Tesla on the other hand, while also facing some delays and challenges, came to the table with a much more finished product and have already started deliveries.

The development timeline of the Fisker Karma should be compared with the Roadster, as they both were first gen products.

 

[doug]

The development timeline of the Fisker Karma should be compared with the Roadster, as they both were first gen products.

Ok. But my point was that the Karma would have been in a much better state to be evaluated for COTY this year (after delivering some product and working out some bugs) instead of last year. The timing turned out to be more favorable to the Model S.

Of course, this year Fisker was plagued by series of unfortunate events (fires, bankruptcy of their battery supplier, etc) and I doubt the judges work in a total vacuum.

 

[DrTaras]

If MT declared the Karma "not ready" then why not bring it back next (this) year giving them a pass.

My guess is that there is strict criteria as to when you car can be entered.
I'm pretty sure that COTY is not for ALL cars just "new" cars and it depends on what the meaning of the word is is!

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla largely limited the incompleteness to software items that were not mission critical

I'll have to differ with you there. Still think that a 5+2 car should not be delivered as a 5+0 car and so there were more than some software glitches
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...e-optional-jump-seats-had-their-car-delivered

 

[vfx]

I'll have to differ with you there. Still think that a 5+2 car should not be delivered as a 5+0 car and so there were more than some software glitches...

I used the word largely so I'm covered.
When the +2 deliver (2013?), ask yourself, Should Tesla have waited to not deliver one car until that time thus missing many promised deadlines (now a public company) and have a factory robots and a thousand people waiting, or should they have only delivered cars that had not ordered those 2+ parts? That would go over well! And the absence of software features could not really be called "glitches". The Karma has "glitches".

 

[doug]

Just to follow up on this, I tweeted Ed Loh and his response was "That's right. Fisker was in it last year... "
Twitter / EdLoh: .@dougdirac @MotorTrend ...

Didn't get any more clarification than that. At any rate, sounds like Fisker shoulda waited.

 

[vfx]

Just to follow up on this, I tweeted Ed Loh and his response was "That's right. Fisker was in it last year... "
Twitter / EdLoh: .@dougdirac @MotorTrend ...

Didn't get any more clarification than that. At any rate, sounds like Fisker shoulda waited.

Sure enough

The luxurious Fisker Karma offers range-extending electric technology similar to our 2011 COTY Chevy Volt's, at over twice the price. It may determine whether a small, independent company can make it in the 21st century, or whether the eponymous Fisker is another modern-day Tucker.

2012 Motor Trend Car of the Year Contender: Fisker Karma

 

[doug]

Consumer Reports First Drive reviews

 

[doug]

Dan Neil:

Rumble Seat | Dan Neil on What He Got Wrong and Right in 2012 - WSJ.com

First and worst: I was too easy on the Fisker Karma, a range-extended plug-in electric luxury sedan built in Finland and imported by the Orange County, Calif.-based company. I really wanted this car to be great, and I have great respect for Henrik Fisker, whose company, having received a highly vetted Department of Energy loan, got smeared during the presidential campaign, a la Solyndra. As unfair as these attacks were, they should have been inadmissible evidence in my judgment of Karma; instead, I found myself rooting for Fisker as an underdog.

In the review, published in February, I tied myself in knots trying to praise the Karma, even resorting to the "world's most interesting car" banality. But in the end, I see in hindsight, the car is too heavy, too overpromised in terms of performance and efficiency, and it is just too durably weird-looking to love. Put a jar in your Fisker Karma, and put a dollar in the jar every time somebody asks you, "What the hell are you driving, mister?" You could put a kid through college that way.

...
Before leaving the Karma: It will likely surprise the Fisker people to learn I let them off the hook. "The whole thing is pretty overdrawn, for my tastes," I wrote. "The diamond motif is painful. The intersection of the curving shoulder line and the rising front fender line creates a visual slackness at the base of the windshield, making the car look like it's sagging a bit."

It is not uncommon for me to write what I consider to be a fairly positive review, only to have the manufacturer, or some batty enthusiast, accuse me of malice. It all depends on whose investment fund is being gored.

A Few Good Calls:
...
Tesla Model S
The world's first fully legitimate electric sedan cleaned up on Car of the Year awards. Built in Silicon Valley, this is certainly one the most important cars in history and a triumph of American ingenuity we can all be proud of.