Keeping my Model S as she ages

[RGoldy]

I have a 2014 model S which I don’t ever want to get rid of. She has a sunroof, and the nose cone. My question is, has anybody with an original Model S kept the vehicle, replaced the battery pack and everything is fine. I don’t know if she will become computer obsolete like an old laptop. I certainly don’t need any of the bells and whistle‘s on the software updates, just functionality. Anybody?

 

[Aggmeister2010]

The benefit of an "old" MCU1 car is that once the eMMC chip is replaced, the platform is pretty 'stable,' as in there aren't a ton of new updates and whatnot that might create bugs. Some people are obsessed with having the latest games and stuff.......on their car (I don't see the appeal). I just want a stable platform that's intuitive, and V10 has that right now. It's certainly not going to get any faster, but If I'm honest, the MCU1 in my P90D is still 10x faster at loading content than my wife's 2022 Volvo.

From a battery standpoint, I strongly believe that as these cars age and more come out of factory warranty, there will be more companies offering repair and aftermarket warranty. Hopefully Tesla will loosen the reigns as more competition comes into the market and allow for easier 3rd party diagnostics and repair - that's my only fear with longterm ownership.

But I'm right there with you - I've thought "maybe I should trade in for a new car or order the F150 Lightning, etc" - but at the end of the day, I'm quite happy with my old P90D, everything works, and it's paid off.....why change? It's a VERY good daily driver.

 

[CMTwinDad]

Makes sense. An 8 year old Tesla will have virtually zero depreciation going forward. Installing a brand new battery for $20k, even if it dies at the end of its four year parts warranty, would likely cost less than four years of depreciation on a new replacement Model S. Probably even taking into account minor repairs. Admittedly, the potential cost of major repairs could flip the math the other way.

 

[aesculus]

My 6+ year old Model X with 60k miles is as good as new except for some normal battery degradation. It still fits my needs wrt range but in another 5 years maybe it will need a new battery. Here is hoping that someone will offer an reasonable exchange at that time. I will probably jump on that rather than buying a new car.

 

[demundus]

Makes sense. An 8 year old Tesla will have virtually zero depreciation going forward. Installing a brand new battery for $20k, even if it dies at the end of its four year parts warranty, would likely cost less than four years of depreciation on a new replacement Model S. Probably even taking into account minor repairs. Admittedly, the potential cost of major repairs could flip the math the other way.

you're near enough to @wk057 to be worth a visit or a chat about his battery services. I'd likely do the same as you, barring door handles and leaky screens, a battery replacement will put the car "good as new" for another 200k miles for me.

 

[kavyboy]

I'm keeping my 2015 S70 as long as I can. Even a replacement battery would cost less than a replacement car. With free supercharging and low insurance, it's a low-cost car to own and drive. I have no desire to replace it, as I actually dislike pretty much every change made after mine.

 

[airborne spoon]

i have no intention of ever selling my car. the free supercharging is worth a shitload of money with the amount i travel and makes it well worth keeping. If my battery ever takes a *sugar* I'll buy new one. It wont be too hard to take out a personal loan for $20k and use the car as collateral if i have to. Also the mods I've made i don't feel like doing to another vehicle

 

[Kamm145]

I'm keeping my 2015 S70 as long as I can. Even a replacement battery would cost less than a replacement car. With free supercharging and low insurance, it's a low-cost car to own and drive. I have no desire to replace it, as I actually dislike pretty much every change made after mine.

Hey Kavyboy,

I own an 2015 S70D. My car is very stable and reliable. I will probably keep it for a while.

Could you tell me who you use for insurance? Also, what is your maximum range? Mine is 221. Thanks.

kamm145

 

[kavyboy]

Hey Kavyboy,

I own an 2015 S70D. My car is very stable and reliable. I will probably keep it for a while.

Could you tell me who you use for insurance? Also, what is your maximum range? Mine is 221. Thanks.

kamm145

I have Progressive. I had Geico for years, but it kept getting more and more expensive. When it came time to renew, I didn't shop around much since Progressive was so much less expensive and I just jumped on it.
I have a single motor S70. I get 240 miles of range at 38k odometer miles. It's a real outlier in a few ways: It's always had more range than the advertised range of 234 miles. My displayed range in the car almost exactly matches real-world range on road trips (so really 240 miles). There's no detectable battery degradation at all since day one.
I'm really not sure what's up with this car. The battery stats are too good to be true.
(Did I jinx it? I think I probably jinxed it. )

 

[leapingwhale]

I have a 2013 Model S with a replaced battery pack. The pack was replaced under warranty though. I doubt I would pay out of pocket for a new battery pack. I would consider it if I felt the car was solid otherwise, but there is occasional need for service and it takes weeks to schedule an appointment in my area.

Like you, I have thought about if it's reasonable to keep an older Model S as a forever car. I have some experience in this area as one my cars is a 1983 model. My conclusion is it would be too pricey to attempt. I mean I could swing it, but I don't think the value proposition is there even with the free supercharging and data.

I have seen articles recently about the price of older John Deere tractors skyrocketing. To be sure, inflation factors into that but the prime factor is thought to be serviceability. The newer tractors are highly computerized, and John Deere reserves the service tools for its dealers. The older tractors can be serviced by anyone.

Of course with the wide proliferation of newer Teslas, it is likely that more independent service centers will open, but I hold out little hope they will serve our relics. There just aren't enough of them to be worth the trouble. And even with the newer cars independent shops are likely to be limited in their capabilities compared to a Tesla-owned service center.

Beyond Tesla, replacement battery packs are going to be the issue for all EVs. With the single source model we currently have, a lot perfectly good cars are going to be trashed unnecessarily. It would be better to fit the car with an aftermarket replacement pack and keep driving, even if the new pack has lower capacity and power capability. I'd happily send my kids to high school in a used Leaf with an aftermarket replacement pack. Unfortunately it might require government intervention to enable this. Mechanical specs including cooling interface would need to published by car OEMs. Electrical specs including BMS protocols would obviously be needed. I think we'll get there eventually, but probably not until there is outrage about all the Leafs and 3s headed to the crusher.

 

[Sugarcharlie]

I have a 2013 Model S with a replaced battery pack. The pack was replaced under warranty though. I doubt I would pay out of pocket for a new battery pack. I would consider it if I felt the car was solid otherwise, but there is occasional need for service and it takes weeks to schedule an appointment in my area.

Like you, I have thought about if it's reasonable to keep an older Model S as a forever car. I have some experience in this area as one my cars is a 1983 model. My conclusion is it would be too pricey to attempt. I mean I could swing it, but I don't think the value proposition is there even with the free supercharging and data.

I have seen articles recently about the price of older John Deere tractors skyrocketing. To be sure, inflation factors into that but the prime factor is thought to be serviceability. The newer tractors are highly computerized, and John Deere reserves the service tools for its dealers. The older tractors can be serviced by anyone.

Of course with the wide proliferation of newer Teslas, it is likely that more independent service centers will open, but I hold out little hope they will serve our relics. There just aren't enough of them to be worth the trouble. And even with the newer cars independent shops are likely to be limited in their capabilities compared to a Tesla-owned service center.

Beyond Tesla, replacement battery packs are going to be the issue for all EVs. With the single source model we currently have, a lot perfectly good cars are going to be trashed unnecessarily. It would be better to fit the car with an aftermarket replacement pack and keep driving, even if the new pack has lower capacity and power capability. I'd happily send my kids to high school in a used Leaf with an aftermarket replacement pack. Unfortunately it might require government intervention to enable this. Mechanical specs including cooling interface would need to published by car OEMs. Electrical specs including BMS protocols would obviously be needed. I think we'll get there eventually, but probably not until there is outrage about all the Leafs and 3s headed to the crusher.

I just joined this Forum today after seeing it while researching whether I should get a battery pack.

Here's my story:

I have a 2013 S 85 with only 52,000 miles which I hand wash and keep in a heated garage. I'm up in age (seventies) and drive very conservatively. Last Sunday I heard a loud bang and the car would not move forward or in reverse. The rest of the car had power just wouldn't move I could hear the motor running when I stepped on the accelerator but the drive shaft wasn't engaged.
I had to push it to a safe spot and flatbed to the Tesla service which is very close. I was told by the tech that I needed a new drive train for $6,000 and that they noticed the battery showing some faults and said it needed to be replaced for $12,000. The car warranty expired a few months ago so this would all be out of pocket. I asked about trading it in but was told that I had to fix it first because they only accept vehicles that run. I said I'd decide what I wanted to do over the weekend. Also the battery pack could take months to come in and it is a refurbished one. Warranty would be for 4 yrs or 50,000 miles. HELP! Would appreciate any advice .Thanks!!

 

[AustinP]

I just joined this Forum today after seeing it while researching whether I should get a battery pack.

Here's my story:

I have a 2013 S 85 with only 52,000 miles which I hand wash and keep in a heated garage. I'm up in age (seventies) and drive very conservatively. Last Sunday I heard a loud bang and the car would not move forward or in reverse. The rest of the car had power just wouldn't move I could hear the motor running when I stepped on the accelerator but the drive shaft wasn't engaged.
I had to push it to a safe spot and flatbed to the Tesla service which is very close. I was told by the tech that I needed a new drive train for $6,000 and that they noticed the battery showing some faults and said it needed to be replaced for $12,000. The car warranty expired a few months ago so this would all be out of pocket. I asked about trading it in but was told that I had to fix it first because they only accept vehicles that run. I said I'd decide what I wanted to do over the weekend. Also the battery pack could take months to come in and it is a refurbished one. Warranty would be for 4 yrs or 50,000 miles. HELP! Would appreciate any advice .Thanks!!

First, welcome to the family. Then indeed very sorry to read your story.
In your shoes, I’d contact Jason Hugues (@wk057) as it’s odd you have those two issues at once.
He’s probably the most knowledgeable independent expert on this matter.
His business is in North Carolina (search Google for wk057 ) but he covers all US.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

Just to add the list, we have a 2014 P85+ and 2015 70D, and not planing to sell.

 

[leapingwhale]

I have a 2013 S 85 with only 52,000 miles [....]

That's the same car I have except I have twice as many miles. My pack was replaced under warranty, but I still live in fear that it could fail any day. After all, the new pack probably has more miles on it than yours does although not as long on the calendar odometer. For the free spinning motor I think what you actually need is a "drive unit" which is the AC induction motor and its inverter. It actually sounds like the motor and inverter are ok (since you can spin it up), but it sounds the gearing or spline has failed. In the modern era of swap-out repair, unfortunately you may have to replace the entire drive unit even though most of it may be ok.

In my opinion, it is unacceptable for a drive unit to fail. There is absolutely no reason they can't be designed and built to outlast the rest of the car. I can point to examples of EVs from the 1990s that are still in daily service running on the original motors (the inverters were upgraded in the 2010s). That being said, the 2013 models are pretty early (for Tesla) and obviously have some design weaknesses. There are some threads in this forum that talk about drive unit problems. You should be able to find them to get a better understanding of the common failure modes.

For the battery, I would ask Tesla for the details on the faults they are observing, report back here, and also consult with the user AustinP recommended. Assuming that they are right and you actually need a replacement pack you are, unfortunately, Exhibit A, as to why these older cars aren't going to stay on the road.

If you just needed a drive unit, and you could actually get one, probably no problem. Sure, it's expensive, but still worth the repair. If you just needed a battery, and they were in stock, that price isn't too crazy and the warranty is decent. The problem is you need both and neither part is likely to be readily available. It's pretty crazy to have to sell a well-cared, low-mileage car at a fire sale price. It's also pretty crazy to spend $18k to keep a 2013 on the road. Maybe, just maybe you would do it if the parts were available and everything else was rock solid. But that's not the case. Long waits for parts. Door handles. Navigation SD cards dying. Death by a thousand cuts. Assuming you can't find a 3rd way, you have only crazy options. Try asking Tesla to split the repairs with you as a gesture of goodwill.

I'm telling you it won't be long before these expensive disposable cars are going to catch the attention of politicians. We desperately need to end the era of sole-sourced traction batteries. If it ever happens, it will be too late for us owners of the early models.

 

[Sugarcharlie]

That's the same car I have except I have twice as many miles. My pack was replaced under warranty, but I still live in fear that it could fail any day. After all, the new pack probably has more miles on it than yours does although not as long on the calendar odometer. For the free spinning motor I think what you actually need is a "drive unit" which is the AC induction motor and its inverter. It actually sounds like the motor and inverter are ok (since you can spin it up), but it sounds the gearing or spline has failed. In the modern era of swap-out repair, unfortunately you may have to replace the entire drive unit even though most of it may be ok.

In my opinion, it is unacceptable for a drive unit to fail. There is absolutely no reason they can't be designed and built to outlast the rest of the car. I can point to examples of EVs from the 1990s that are still in daily service running on the original motors (the inverters were upgraded in the 2010s). That being said, the 2013 models are pretty early (for Tesla) and obviously have some design weaknesses. There are some threads in this forum that talk about drive unit problems. You should be able to find them to get a better understanding of the common failure modes.

For the battery, I would ask Tesla for the details on the faults they are observing, report back here, and also consult with the user AustinP recommended. Assuming that they are right and you actually need a replacement pack you are, unfortunately, Exhibit A, as to why these older cars aren't going to stay on the road.

If you just needed a drive unit, and you could actually get one, probably no problem. Sure, it's expensive, but still worth the repair. If you just needed a battery, and they were in stock, that price isn't too crazy and the warranty is decent. The problem is you need both and neither part is likely to be readily available. It's pretty crazy to have to sell a well-cared, low-mileage car at a fire sale price. It's also pretty crazy to spend $18k to keep a 2013 on the road. Maybe, just maybe you would do it if the parts were available and everything else was rock solid. But that's not the case. Long waits for parts. Door handles. Navigation SD cards dying. Death by a thousand cuts. Assuming you can't find a 3rd way, you have only crazy options. Try asking Tesla to split the repairs with you as a gesture of goodwill.

I'm telling you it won't be long before these expensive disposable cars are going to catch the attention of politicians. We desperately need to end the era of sole-sourced traction batteries. If it ever happens, it will be too late for us owners of the early models.

Thanks for the information. It puts salt on the wound to see that Tesla just announced record earnings of 3 billion dollars for the quarter. I wonder how much of it comes from having battery packs replaced! I will try to get a copy of the faults that show the need for a battery pack. I would gladly pay for the drive unit if that would be all . I will try to get in touch with the member who was recommended for his input. I wish I found this Forum earlier!
I previously had a VW Phaeton and was a member of what was a great Forum. Wish they still made that car!!

 

[Sugarcharlie]

That's the same car I have except I have twice as many miles. My pack was replaced under warranty, but I still live in fear that it could fail any day. After all, the new pack probably has more miles on it than yours does although not as long on the calendar odometer. For the free spinning motor I think what you actually need is a "drive unit" which is the AC induction motor and its inverter. It actually sounds like the motor and inverter are ok (since you can spin it up), but it sounds the gearing or spline has failed. In the modern era of swap-out repair, unfortunately you may have to replace the entire drive unit even though most of it may be ok.

In my opinion, it is unacceptable for a drive unit to fail. There is absolutely no reason they can't be designed and built to outlast the rest of the car. I can point to examples of EVs from the 1990s that are still in daily service running on the original motors (the inverters were upgraded in the 2010s). That being said, the 2013 models are pretty early (for Tesla) and obviously have some design weaknesses. There are some threads in this forum that talk about drive unit problems. You should be able to find them to get a better understanding of the common failure modes.

For the battery, I would ask Tesla for the details on the faults they are observing, report back here, and also consult with the user AustinP recommended. Assuming that they are right and you actually need a replacement pack you are, unfortunately, Exhibit A, as to why these older cars aren't going to stay on the road.

If you just needed a drive unit, and you could actually get one, probably no problem. Sure, it's expensive, but still worth the repair. If you just needed a battery, and they were in stock, that price isn't too crazy and the warranty is decent. The problem is you need both and neither part is likely to be readily available. It's pretty crazy to have to sell a well-cared, low-mileage car at a fire sale price. It's also pretty crazy to spend $18k to keep a 2013 on the road. Maybe, just maybe you would do it if the parts were available and everything else was rock solid. But that's not the case. Long waits for parts. Door handles. Navigation SD cards dying. Death by a thousand cuts. Assuming you can't find a 3rd way, you have only crazy options. Try asking Tesla to split the repairs with you as a gesture of goodwill.

I'm telling you it won't be long before these expensive disposable cars are going to catch the attention of politicians. We desperately need to end the era of sole-sourced traction batteries. If it ever happens, it will be too late for us owners of the early models.

I approved the drive unit replacement and am holding off on the battery pack until I see what kind of range I get with the old one. I made the decision after looking at my Tesla app and seeing the car in service showing 98 miles of range. It had about 110 miles of range when I brought it in a week ago and looks like a normal drop of about a mile a day while sitting idle. I'll let you know what happens after the repair is complete. They haven't let me know when the part will be in so I imagine it will be at least week or so.
Great to have this forum for info.

 

[dannycamps]

I just joined this Forum today after seeing it while researching whether I should get a battery pack.

Here's my story:

I have a 2013 S 85 with only 52,000 miles which I hand wash and keep in a heated garage. I'm up in age (seventies) and drive very conservatively. Last Sunday I heard a loud bang and the car would not move forward or in reverse. The rest of the car had power just wouldn't move I could hear the motor running when I stepped on the accelerator but the drive shaft wasn't engaged.
I had to push it to a safe spot and flatbed to the Tesla service which is very close. I was told by the tech that I needed a new drive train for $6,000 and that they noticed the battery showing some faults and said it needed to be replaced for $12,000. The car warranty expired a few months ago so this would all be out of pocket. I asked about trading it in but was told that I had to fix it first because they only accept vehicles that run. I said I'd decide what I wanted to do over the weekend. Also the battery pack could take months to come in and it is a refurbished one. Warranty would be for 4 yrs or 50,000 miles. HELP! Would appreciate any advice .Thanks!!

Loud bang/jolt (like getting hit from behind) and the car being unable to move sounds more like the original pyro fuse used in the early '12-'13 cars (the one with the weakpoint in the 'fingers' separating) blowing than an issue with the battery or motor but who knows....

 

[ucmndd]

Loud bang/jolt (like getting hit from behind) and the car being unable to move sounds more like the original pyro fuse used in the early '12-'13 cars (the one with the weakpoint in the 'fingers' separating) blowing than an issue with the battery or motor but who knows....

True, except for this part -

"I could hear the motor running when I stepped on the accelerator but the drive shaft wasn't engaged"

If the pack fuse blew pressing the accelerator isn't gonna generate any noise at all...

 

[Aggmeister2010]

True, except for this part -

"I could hear the motor running when I stepped on the accelerator but the drive shaft wasn't engaged"

If the pack fuse blew pressing the accelerator isn't gonna generate any noise at all...

I'm not sure he's making the right correlation there. Both half shafts would have to be sheered for the motor to run without the car moving. That is incredibly unlikely. And if they did sheer, you'd hear a ton of noise from the remaining shaft banging on things as it spun.

 

[Rqcg]

Original owners of 2012/2013 Model S w/ 85 kWh pack: Has your main pack been replaced?

Strange bc someone else showed 283 miles on a 2012 P85 with a new 90kwh pack. Software? I think 280 or so is probably what the epa would have rated it, but since they never had the chance they leave it at 265? Who knows. Older Tesla’s aren’t really a concern for Tesla. Good riddance. Could...

teslamotorsclub.com