Kerbside pole-mounted chargers are now a thing

[B3AU]

Potentially a trip hazard. I posted a solution not mine upthread sometime ago

Hopefully someone gives that feedback since it is a trial

Can't see a media release published at Ministerial media releases yet, but there's an article in today's Daily Tele about the recipients of the Round One EV kerbside charging grants

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www.dailytelegraph.com.au

- Evie Networks
- ChargePost
- EVSE
- City of Newcastle
- Waverley Council
- EVX
- PLUS ES
- Jolt

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https://twitter.com/x/status/1794592865454260699

No idea why the minister deleted that Instagram post and then reposted it...

Anyway, a non News Corp, straight from the source media release is now up at NSW turbocharges kerbside EV charging with 600+ new ports

 

[moa999]

Driven article on PlusEV

Another 149 pole-mounted EV chargers to be installed across Australia's biggest city

Another 149 pole mounted EV chargers to be installed across certain suburbs in Sydney.

thedriven.io

Seemingly focussed on Sydney inner suburbs on pole mounted chargers.

The company says the 149 new pole-mounted EV charging units will be installed across Sydney’s Inner West and suburbs including Waverly, Randwick, Woollahra, and Lane Cove.

Not a fan of this however (it hasn't worked in Bondi on Glenyar Ave.. and most of these suburbs are pretty crammed for street parking)

we will be deploying 70% of the chargers without dedicated parking spaces

And didn't think AC charging standard supported Plug n Charge.. and almost no vehicles currently V2G

we’ll be exploring ways to integrate cutting-edge technologies like Plug & Charge (PnC) and vehicle-to-grid (V2G) capabilities,

 

[Vostok]

And didn't think AC charging standard supported Plug n Charge.. and almost no vehicles currently V2G

Plug and Charge (ISO 15118) is a part of the IEC 62196 (Type 2 plug) signalling protocol, not the charging mode. So yes, it can be implemented on AC.

The basics of Plug & Charge

Plug & Charge is a technological concept initially introduced by the ISO 15118. It enables the today's most user-convenient and secure way of charging EVs.

www.switch-ev.com

 

[Vostok]

By the way, for those interested, here’s the interactive map which shows the density of kerbside charging need. If you zoom in (within eligible LGAs only), it shows detail down to street block level the proportion of properties that do not have access to offstreet parking, via the shaded blue scale from 0% to 100%.

https://is-transport.maps.arcgis.com/apps/instant/countdown/index.html?appid=ad95999da54b4fc0b03e5debe4494cac&locale=en

 

[Vostok]

Evie posted on LinkedIn that they are the only recipient of the kerbside grants who is building DC chargers - 80 plugs across 26 sites.

They will build their chargers in these six LGAs - all north and east:

• Mosman
• Lane Cove
• Ku-ring-gai
• Woollahra
• Randwick
• North Sydney

EVX though is building the most number of plugs, with 154 plugs at 77 sites (i.e. exactly 2 plugs per pole as per their existing solution).

Cross-posted in the Evie thread.

 

[B3AU]

Evie posted on LinkedIn that they are the only recipient of the kerbside grants who is building DC chargers - 80 plugs across 26 sites.

They will build their chargers in these six LGAs - all north and east:

• Mosman
• Lane Cove
• Ku-ring-gai
• Woollahra
• Randwick
• North Sydney

EVX though is building the most number of plugs, with 154 plugs at 77 sites (i.e. exactly 2 plugs per pole as per their existing solution).

Cross-posted in the Evie thread.

So Jolt are moving into AC chargers?

 

[Vostok]

So Jolt are moving into AC chargers?

Either that, or Evie’s claim is incorrect.

 

[B3AU]

Either that, or Evie’s claim is incorrect.

Is it this post? Evie Networks on LinkedIn: We’re thrilled to announce our partnership with the NSW Government to…

"Evie is the largest and only fast charging grant recipient. "

I assume this is based on speed, rather than being DC (as opposed to AC).
If Jolt continue to roll out 25kW DC chargers, then I guess that's not considered 'fast charging'.

Compared to 50/75/150kW DC charging.

 

[Chuq]

• Power is 7 kW, BYO cable
• They will have idle fees but with a 30 minute grace period!

These seem conflicting. Idle fees are to maintain throughput at high turnover sites (DC chargers). People are going to be parking at 7 kW sites for long periods (e.g. overnight). If their charging finishes at 5am are they really expected to go out and move their car by 5:30am?!

Not to mention that with AC charging, anyone can reduce their charge rate to make their "end time" whenever they want.

It's like charge networks heard about an idle fee and figure they'll do it, without actually understanding why they exist.

 

[Futuretech]

These seem conflicting. Idle fees are to maintain throughput at high turnover sites (DC chargers). People are going to be parking at 7 kW sites for long periods (e.g. overnight). If their charging finishes at 5am are they really expected to go out and move their car by 5:30am?!

Not to mention that with AC charging, anyone can reduce their charge rate to make their "end time" whenever they want.

It's like charge networks heard about an idle fee and figure they'll do it, without actually understanding why they exist.

Evx doesn't charge idle fee between 8pm and 8am. I think this is sensible

 

[Vostok]

These seem conflicting. Idle fees are to maintain throughput at high turnover sites (DC chargers). People are going to be parking at 7 kW sites for long periods (e.g. overnight). If their charging finishes at 5am are they really expected to go out and move their car by 5:30am?!

No. As @Futuretech points out, I would expect idle fees to apply only during time restricted parking periods, which in most of inner Sydney is either 8am-8pm or 8am-10pm. Certainly that’s what EVX does.

Exploren is currently the only other polecharger network in Sydney (using the Schneider/Intellihub solution) but their sites appear to be in lower density areas where parking is not time restricted - and I don’t think they have idle fees.

Not to mention that with AC charging, anyone can reduce their charge rate to make their "end time" whenever they want.

Yes, well, a driver could do that, at least in a Tesla (I’ve heard other EVs are more limited in terms of the driver being able to set the charge current - like not at all) although the minimum settable in the App is 5A per phase.

EVX is 3-phase charging, so at the Tesla App minimum of 3.6 kW, you could drag out most charging sessions to utilise the entire 4 hour parking limit at EVX sites during 8am-8pm. But out of hours, there’s no point in dragging out the charging session.

It's like charge networks heard about an idle fee and figure they'll do it, without actually understanding why they exist.

That’s a bit harsh. I think we can credit these organisations having a bit more nous than that.

 

[Chuq]

That’s a bit harsh. I think we can credit these organisations having a bit more nous than that.

Yeah, I can see how it could be taken! I guess it's a sign of the times changing - 5 years ago, charging networks were run by people/companies who actually wanted to build a charging network. Today, there seems to be a new company name popping up every month ... safe to say there would be a wider variety of motivations for doing so.

 

[Vostok]

Yeah, I can see how it could be taken!

Congrats on 5000 posts Chuq

 

[moa999]

So seemingly new player Chargepost award is only for 20 sites and all in North Sydney Council area.

That council has previously dabbled with a handful of paid Type2 points in its own carpark, on the rather horrible EO app.

Chargepost to install 20 AC pole-mounted EV charging units in Australia first trial

Chargepost to install 20 dual outlet AC pole mounted EV chargers in an Australian first trial.

thedriven.io

Interesting in all of these announcements seemingly no involvement from City of Sydney which has most of the highest density areas (CBD itself, Potts Point/ Kings Cross and Zetland / Green Square/ Alexandria)

 

[meloccom]

Interesting in all of these announcements seemingly no involvement from City of Sydney which has most of the highest density areas (CBD itself, Potts Point/ Kings Cross and Zetland / Green Square/ Alexandria)

Not really a surprise at all, City of Sydney Council is fairly anti-Car of any type. They want you to take public transport, or ride your bike. This is fine if you’re going somewhere within Council area but more problematic for longer trips but happen to live in the Council area.

 

[Vostok]

Not really a surprise at all, City of Sydney Council is fairly anti-Car of any type

Trying to achieve a better balance between cars and other forms of transport, including car share, bicycles and public transport is not being “anti-car”.

EVX has 11 pole chargers in the Sydney metro area, and 9 of those are within the Sydney City Council LGA:

• Millers Point - Kent St
• Dawes Point - Trinity Ave
• Pyrmont - Pyrmont St
• Darlinghurst - Yurong St
• Glebe - St Johns Rd
• Camperdown - Carillion Ave
• Newtown - Brown St
• Alexandria - Huntley St
• Rosebery - Morley Ave

Further, those spots are painted and marked for EV charging only, with a generous 4 hour unmetered parking limit, typically 2 hours longer than the adjacent spaces. That doesn’t look “anti-car” to me.

 

[meloccom]

Trying to achieve a better balance between cars and other forms of transport, including car share, bicycles and public transport is not being “anti-car”.

EVX has 11 pole chargers in the Sydney metro area, and 9 of those are within the Sydney City Council LGA:

• Millers Point - Kent St
• Dawes Point - Trinity Ave
• Pyrmont - Pyrmont St
• Darlinghurst - Yurong St
• Glebe - St Johns Rd
• Camperdown - Carillion Ave
• Newtown - Brown St
• Alexandria - Huntley St
• Rosebery - Morley Ave

Further, those spots are painted and marked for EV charging only, with a generous 4 hour unmetered parking limit, typically 2 hours longer than the adjacent spaces. That doesn’t look “anti-car” to me.

Almost didn’t comment as I anticipated a response like this.
I am in favour of a less car centric city too and support many of the initiatives like bike lans and better public transport, it’s a complex subject.
However my partner is an architect and specialised in multi dwelling buildings, many in the City of Sydney. He has had the conversations and experience from where I draw, my conclusions, but I don’t feel I have the right to relay the details myself. Certainly I can say that the Council does not want all residents to own their own car, and restrictions on car spaces for development applications are much tougher now than in the past. We’re both retired now so perhaps things have changed.
We have an apartment in Potts Point and I have a selection of 3 to 4 share cars within 5 minute walk but the closest car charging is Kings Cross car park which is only AC and you need to pay for expensive parking on top.
If we exclude BMW Sydney which is customer only the closest DC charging is Eastgardens Bondi Junction or off Queens Street in the lane way with 2 chargers constantly in use.
The Tesla Bondi Supercharger has been coming for a long time but never really arrived. We can only speculate as to why, but it seems odd given that the surrounding areas are very wealthy and many expensive houses don’t have off street parking so would make for a very profitable DC charging station.
We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Vostok]

Certainly I can say that the Council does not want all residents to own their own car, and restrictions on car spaces for development applications are much tougher now than in the past.

That sounds entirely reasonable to me. Car dependency can’t be managed via wishful thinking, and the CBD is endowed with train lines, tram lines, hundreds of bus routes, ferries, cycleways… and soon metro lines as well. So if car dependency can’t even be managed in the City of Sydney, then where on heck do you start?

For those trips where people who live in the CBD really need a car, there are Taxis/Uber, car share or car hire. And if someone thinks they can’t live their life that way, and prioritises access to their own car above most other aspects of their life, then they can choose another area of the city in which to live. It’s all about what you value the most. Sacrifices in one aspect or another are inevitable, no matter where one lives.

We have an apartment in Potts Point and I have a selection of 3 to 4 share cars within 5 minute walk but the closest car charging is Kings Cross car park which is only AC and you need to pay for expensive parking on top.
If we exclude BMW Sydney which is customer only the closest DC charging is Eastgardens Bondi Junction or off Queens Street in the lane way with 2 chargers constantly in use.

The guidelines for the kerbside charging grants encouraged network operators to partner with LGAs. So it’s entirely possible that the reason Chargepost has no sites planned in the City of Sydney is because CoS partnered with EVX, with whom CoS must already have a relationship since 9 of the 11 EVX polechargers are there. Now, I don’t know because the grant applications aren’t public - so this is just speculation on my part.

But on the information that is available, the City of Sydney is getting 18 kerbside chargers, and EVX won funding for 77 sites (154 plugs) in total so could easily be building all 18 sites for the City of Sydney.