Kia EV6

[Dilly]

Driven the Ioniq 5. Sat in the EV6. Both are definitely SUVs (or crossovers or whatever daft name being used this month - CUV!). Both have elevated driving positions and ride height.

They’re cars and they’re electric. That’s pretty much all they have in common with the 3.

The Hyundai Ioniq (original) is a great Model 3 alternative, although it regularly gets ignored. We own one. It’s great.

I moved from an Ioniq Electric to the Model 3. It was a great car. Lane keep was a bit iffy and I rarely used it. Every other feature was superb.
It was only ever let down by range. The heater and air con made a big dent. In winter, the 122 mile range was easily whittled down to under a hundred miles. The final straw for me was a 70 mile round trip on a particularly cold day with the heater on the whole time. I arrived home with 12 miles left out of 121. I never had a single issue other than that.

 

[page3]

I moved from an Ioniq Electric to the Model 3. It was a great car. Lane keep was a bit iffy and I rarely used it. Every other feature was superb.
It was only ever let down by range. The heater and air con made a big dent. In winter, the 122 mile range was easily whittled down to under a hundred miles. The final straw for me was a 70 mile round trip on a particularly cold day with the heater on the whole time. I arrived home with 12 miles left out of 121. I never had a single issue other than that.

We have the 38kwh version and find range between 170 and 190 miles. Unlike the Leaf we had before it, it seems to cope with weather/motorway speeds well. I've never understood why it gets ignored so often.

 

[Shrktank]

Mmm, that matt grey finish is saucy.

I happened to be at a dealer here asking general questions about their EV cars. At the curb was a Matte Silver EV6. In my opinion it was one of the most beautiful looking cars I have seen in a long time. Another dealer had one in the the showroom. The dealer was among it up 10;000 over MSRP. To me the headroom seemed nice and the dash was impressive. I think I like the simplistic look of the M3.

Funny I am starting to see the Tesla is Apple and the other EV’s are android. Better devices but not all put toghter

 

[Undecided_2]

I had two on order but ended up cancelling them. I’ve followed the Discord forums closely and some owners are deeply unhappy with the software within the car.

For me it was that and when I test drove the Y it was more practical overall for similar money to the AWD S GT Line that I test drove and I didn’t have to wait until the end of the year for it. I also didn’t like the rear seats as I could sit comfortably or get my feet under the front seats. The centre console seemed odd as it prevented easily access to underneath it.

However, I thought the Kia was nicely made and the charging speed is impressive.

 

[Durzel]

I happened to be at a dealer here asking general questions about their EV cars. At the curb was a Matte Silver EV6. In my opinion it was one of the most beautiful looking cars I have seen in a long time. Another dealer had one in the the showroom. The dealer was among it up 10;000 over MSRP. To me the headroom seemed nice and the dash was impressive. I think I like the simplistic look of the M3.

Funny I am starting to see the Tesla is Apple and the other EV’s are android. Better devices but not all put toghter

Problem is, Apple stuff is actually put together well. You do pay a pretty big premium for it (like with Tesla) but the ecosystem works nicely and it makes it easier to justify the additional expense.

Really at the moment I feel like the premium that Tesla offers is that it's the EV brand, and the software doesn't feel like its ancient. It never ceases to amaze me how other manufacturers launch cars in 2022 with interfaces that are like really badly written Android apps. How can none of them sort a half decent development team that knows good UX? Case in point - the Peugeot e-2008, a great car, half the price of my Model 3, interior is nice, seats are much better, it is perfectly servicable.. but the UX is really sluggish and unwieldy. I could never live with it as a daily driver.

I do think Tesla are in serious danger of resting on their laurels though. I'm not sure how impressive AP is compared to lane keeping on other cars, other manufacturers are making great strides and Tesla seems to be mostly standing still in Europe. I don't remember the last time there was a significant development in AP in the UK/Europe, or even basic stuff like wipers & headlights. The likes of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc have this stuff down.

The way things are I don't know if my next car will be a Tesla, particularly if the SuC network opens up which seems inevitable.

 

[Undecided_2]

Tesla will adapt to market pressures. They still have the edge on efficiency from their motors and batteries compared to others. But I’m excited to see what other manufacturers come up with in the next few years.

…as long as their UI/UX is decent to use.

 

[WannabeOwner]

How can none of them sort a half decent development team that knows good UX?

I suspect that is because Establish Auto M.O. has been to outsource and then assemble. Integration of software from umpteen suppliers (if that is where they are at) is a nightmare. And going from outsourced to a fully-inhouse software DEV company is a big change with loads of pitfalls, unlikely to be something that can be accomplished in short term. VAG had EVs being built, initially, and then sitting in parking lots because the software wasn't ready.

I do think Tesla are in serious danger of resting on their laurels though

I think they are all-out on FSD, and the Beta program for that (USA / Canada only AFAIK). Probably don't want to do any more significant DEV on regular AP and just replace that with FSD - unless something they do on FSD happens to be easily separated out and bundled into AP. The Traffic Lights and speed sign recognition have been fairly recent additions, maybe they fell out of the FSD program ...

I don't remember the last time there was a significant development in AP in the UK/Europe, or even basic stuff like wipers & headlights

Yeah, well they could definitely put some effort into those. Plenty of history of things that would make a difference not getting enough effort. Service Booking system on the APP was a case in point. Presumably got to the point where the boss said "I'm fed up with excuses, get rid of all the tele-staff who do service booking and put the APP live" ... certainly felt like it when it launched!

Even in my company we take those sorts of decisions when not enough progress is happening - although we tend not to burn bridges quite like that!

I’m excited to see what other manufacturers come up with in the next few years.

I've been excited to see what they came up with for the last several years. Maybe they will be exciting in future, but I haven't seen much indication ... and maybe a bunch of start-ups will eclipse them instead.

Musk's Master Plan Part Très - ramp up to 20M cars p.a. by 2030 (currently on target for 1M this year I think? Maybe a bit more than that ... so that's roughly a 108x increase in the next 8 years. The whole of VAG group is around 10M, and Toyota 8M ... I can see VAG succeeding in EVs but Toyota is doing a late-start by whatever metric anyone chooses to use! So maybe Tesla will just eclipse the lot of them

 

[Undecided_2]

I’m not a ‘fan boy’ of Tesla - I’ve never been that type of person - although I am a fan of clean energy/changing lifestyles -

However, I’m a fan of Tesla as they’ve been successful as for a while they were the underdogs and attacked from every angle in the early years and expected to fail. But instead they’ve caught the long standing manufacturers out and still way ahead with their product.

With the ban on ICE and other countries coming doing the same VAG and others have a lot to do to replace their existing sales of ICE.

 

[Drew57]

Tesla will adapt to market pressures.

No evidence yet. There seems to be an inbuilt arrogance to Tesla while demand currently outstrips supply,

I see a 'take it or leave it' attitude, unrealistic hype about self driving & probable opening up of the supercharger network, seemingly unconcerned about the potential inconvenience to existing owners or even that many will choose alternatives when it happens.

Shame, because I genuinely love the cars themselves.

 

[Undecided_2]

Yes, I’ve seen the hype from Tesla about FSD. They should refund/part refund existing buyers of FSD.

I’m not particularly worried about self driving. Where I live on the west coast of Scotland they’re decades away of being able to cope with the roads on AP let alone on FSD - and that’s all of the manufacturers. The cameras can’t cope in mist, sleet, snow, fog or rain and they can all happen with an hour of driving! Personally, I’d rather trust my own skills driving in those conditions and that’s saying something…

 

[Jason71]

Yes, I’ve seen the hype from Tesla about FSD. They should refund/part refund existing buyers of FSD.

I’m not particularly worried about self driving. Where I live on the west coast of Scotland they’re decades away of being able to cope with the roads on AP let alone on FSD - and that’s all of the manufacturers. The cameras can’t cope in mist, sleet, snow, fog or rain and they can all happen with an hour of driving! Personally, I’d rather trust my own skills driving in those conditions and that’s saying something…

Just like the Turing test for AI we should have a similar test for autonomous driving called the "Cornwall Test". Went there for the first time in 40 years this year holly c**p. I thought my native Shropshire was tight and twisty. Until FSD has a sensor that can work out how far into a hedge its OK to drive and will pass oncoming traffic at 2cm clearance it has no chance.

 

[Jason71]

Yes, I’ve seen the hype from Tesla about FSD. They should refund/part refund existing buyers of FSD.

I kind of agree but on the other hand Michael Dell once said something similar about Apple......

 

[Undecided_2]

Just like the Turing test for AI we should have a similar test for autonomous driving called the "Cornwall Test". Went there for the first time in 40 years this year holly c**p. I thought my native Shropshire was tight and twisty. Until FSD has a sensor that can work out how far into a hedge its OK to drive and will pass oncoming traffic at 2cm clearance it has no chance.

That made me laugh!

 

[Undecided_2]

I feel bad as I’ve helped this go way off of topic. The OP was about the KIA EV6…

We still chose the Tesla over the KIA. I suppose that says something about the brand and it’s reputation for EVs. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the quality and I doubt that they lose out much to the competition as people who love dealing with dealers will probably stick to their favourite brands. Interesting that the KIA EV6 forums have complaints about faults such as handles freezing solid, heat pumps and motors failing - although on the whole they don’t write clickbait headlines.

At the end of the day there’s plenty of business for everyone.

 

[Chewy_Baba]

I had an EV6 on order in matte grey since Oct21 with delivery date of March 22. They contacted me at the start of the month to say that delivery was going to be delayed to Aug 22, so I cancelled. Still haven’t got my £1000 deposit back.
Ordered a MY instead, TBH I much prefer the look of the EV6, but the Tesla has the better software by far.

 

[Peteski]

I do think Tesla are in serious danger of resting on their laurels though.

In many ways, Tesla are very proactive in bettering themselves. If you followed the development of the S/X models over the years, you will see that they made massive improvements along the way. Drive an early S vs the latest version and apart from the external cosmetic styling, the progress they have made since 2012 is actually quite staggering compared to how a traditional manufacturer would update a model over its lifecycle.

Yet in other more trivial ways, Tesla appear to be downright lazy or disinterested. Simple stuff like auto-high beam and auto-wipers that they just can't be arsed to sort out! Unfortunately these are the things people tend to notice on a daily basis.

But anyway, I chose the Model Y over everything else on the market. As an overall package it simply ticks more boxes than any of the others. I do keep looking at alternatives to a Tesla (I like variety in cars), but so far they are doing enough for me to stick with them with no regrets. Build quality of the Y is the best yet of the 3 Teslas we've owned. That was always a bit of a niggle on our earlier cars, mainly poor panel fits and paint defects. The Model Y I picked up yesterday looks perfect inside and out. Really pleased on that front. Nothing to complain about this time.

 

[WannabeOwner]

If you followed the development of the S/X models over the years, you will see that they made massive improvements along the way

its a good point. Even the updates to a car whilst you own it. I've had two MS since 2015 and covered 95K miles in the first over 3.5 years; lockdown has dramatically reduced my mileage since, but over those 7 years the number of OTA improvements is staggering. Even, for example, a recent report I read that Tesla had used data from actual crashes (rather than the "defined" safety test for Front, Front corner, and side battering-ram) to improve which airbags they set off (potential saving for insurance as well as personal survivability improvement). Years ago, when Volvo was king of "Safety Sally", their owners had to buy a new model to get any further improvements ...

Back in the day we had trouble with heating reducing dramatically an hour into a journey. I found a website that had a picture of a roaring fire thinking that would amuse Wifee (it didn't ...) ... now of course that "Toy" comes standard And Fart Mode ... had loads of fun showing that to people. Original graphic equalizer had 3 sliders, subsequently increased to 5 - try doing that with a physical-buttons dash. Navigate on Autopilot prompting asking me to confirm moving to nearside and then taking the exit - sure, its pretty rough-round-edges, but its way better than before when I would sail past an exit in a world of my own ...

Pretty sure your MX Lightshow Mode was the first such? flapping its doors and so on? Now all like Audi can write its name on the wall in front of it ...

The number of OTA changes is huge. Superchargers now showing the number of stalls available ... all obvious stuff, but one-by-one implemented.

Except for auto high-beam / wipers

that they just can't be arsed to sort out!

 

[Undecided_2]

I had an EV6 on order in matte grey since Oct21 with delivery date of March 22. They contacted me at the start of the month to say that delivery was going to be delayed to Aug 22, so I cancelled. Still haven’t got my £1000 deposit back.
Ordered a MY instead, TBH I much prefer the look of the EV6, but the Tesla has the better software by far.

I found the MY to have much more room and practical storage spaces than the EV6. I couldn’t stow the charging cable anywhere in the EV6 without being in the way.

Same as you. I had two on order but both were pushed out so switched to the MY.

 

[ThePirate]

TEST DRIVE: I test drove an EV6 in Northern California. I was *very* impressed. This was the GT LINE AWD. Drove great, has real instruments, peppy (but not as fast as model Y).

WAY BETTER THAN Tesla Model Y:
• Charge Speed/Charge Curve: Ev6 says 350 kW to ModelY 250 kW. The charge curve is bizzarre (google it), but it is over 50% rate for much more of the curve. In effect, if you limit your charge stop to 15 min, you have the *same* charge stops on long drives. Try it.
• Heads up display (HUD): OMG. Gives speed, speed limit, AND which way to turn at next Nav direction. This is such a no-brainer for a car without an instrument cluster. Please Elon, please.
• Overhead Parking View: (shows all the cars around you from an overhead view when you switch to reverse) Took my breath away. Please Elon, please. Yes, the MYT, for $12000 will park itself. But the overhead is sooo awesome and useful.
• Blind spot warning: Obvious.
• I'm pretty sure it had reasonable turning radius (Tesla Model Y is awful.)
• 110V outlets (basically, on all trips, someone needs to use their computer for a quick work email/calculation/other). Surely T could have done that.
• Interior quality totally superior, hands down utterly, absolutely blows the Model Y away. You feel like you are in a fancy car - not an unreasonable ask for the $60k price range, after all.

Inferior to Tesla Model Y:
• 276 mile range EV6 vs. Model Y 330 mi. For me, range is very, very important. This is *almost* ameliorated by the EV6 faster charging and superior charge curve, HOWEVER, those are based entirely on ideal chargers and charger performance being available. If not, then the actual is very important.
• Clearance 0.6" less (every mm is precious to me).
• Battery Conditioning not available. Rumors have it they will fix that some time, but...???
• EV6 has VERY DARK interior. Cave-like, claustrophobic. Model Y glass roof is nice and bright and open feeling in daytime. That's nice.
• Less cargo area, smaller limit to cargo size.
• Clearance: 0.6" less than Model Y.
(You will notice I didn't mention acceleration - they are both stupid fast off the line. Who cares if one will get me into even MORE trouble?)

Equally Bad:
• Both cars suffer for REALLY WRETCHEDLY AWFUL VISIBILITY. Why kid yourself? Sucks sucks sucks. We have all seen the vision system fail badly at critical times, so depending on that for blind spot? Oy. So, I think I am just going to have to make neck exercises a way of life so I can look behind that O&@#$^(*#@$^ huge wide pig of a support pillar just where I need to look. (At least the EV6 had a regular blind spot warning. I hope Tesla's little buzzer is dependable. Oy.)
• They're both absurdly heavy. Unfortunately, how to fix that is the $64B question. Battery tech just isn't there yet.


MY USE CASE: Is strictly and only long drives, so range and charge speed and charge curve are critical. Clearance for dirt and snow road is also very important ( alas, nothing but the Rivians have this now, but Rivians have terrible charge times). Winter use is also very important (hence my requrement for AWD, which kills range, darnnit!). I will use this in snowy mountain conditions (believe it or not, there *are* cold places in CA, at least at altitude in the winter).

If these uses aren't important for you, I would definitely consider the EV6. In the first place, you can get them! They show up occasionally at the local dealer. At least as important, it has instruments! What a concept! You don't have to look away from the road to get some car input! Who would ever think of such a thing! And if you are a tech lover, the HUD and the overhead parking view will BLOW YOU AWAY ***AND*** are very useful.

CONCLUSION: for me, for range, clearance, and battery conditioning (for cold temp use), I had no objective choice but to wait forever for a Model Y. I am ****so*** not a fan of Tesla tech and aura. (Despite its wide acceptance, putting the info display out of the field of view of the driver is unforgivably stupid, no objective way around this. Also, features like opening glove compartment with the touch pad... gimmee a break, so impractical.) But the Model Y is efficient, and has a decent amount of batt capacity, and I have to give that to Elon and friends.

The only "hard" stat that Tesla loses is on charge speed/curve. Seems like the EV6 is just one step newer and Tesla has to catch up.

EV6 wins on so many "soft" points though, it is very attractive. So many good things about the instrumentation and driving and general usability. Interior is SOOOO much better. Give it 40 miles more range and I would drop Tesla faster than Falcon orbital velocity.

Now if tesla would just get around to MAKING my gol-dang car...

-TPC

 

[Durzel]

Tesla has the competition beat on battery efficiency. There’s something about their tech, presumably the several years of advancement, that still to this day exceeds the competition.

It won’t be long, however, before battery tech/density gets to the point where even the more inefficient but better built/specced cars will win out, because they will be doing 350+ miles which will be enough for most people, even if the Teslas are doing 400+ at that point.

I’d be interested to know real world range too. The Kia might have 276 mile advertised range, but is that more accurate than the 330 of the Tesla? Tesla’s range advertisements are pretty unrealistic for real world experience.