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Kia Soul EV

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I was thinking of getting the Siemens VersiCharge 30 amp home charger if I do end up getting it. I just drove one today. Not super-fast, but very smooth and refined (especially by ICE standards, duh!) They put a little bit of the hard sell on me to get it "today" but I politely said it would be within "the next few months." Aside from the Model S, I think it's one of the best overall EVs on the market.
 
went back to look at that again and the next possible announcement is expected on Apr 1st at the New York Auto show.

Maybe by then they'll have settled on the list of states they'll sell it in.

Well, I'm in Southern California, the epicenter of EV interest and sales. Thankfully, there's starting to be enough of a public charging infrastructure, that range anxiety is becoming less and less of an issue. Still think I may hold out for the Model 3.
 
Ok, Soul EV rolling out to 5 more states. Georgia in April, followed by Oregon, Washington, Texas and Hawaii in June:

Kia Expands Soul EV Availability To Additional U.S. States

I still see the $249/mo lease for the base model. No mention of lease pricing for the + model. In any case, be prepared to wrestle the dealer for every $0.05 in question. We can put an end to the compliance car talk:

Are you sure this car will be sold in WA ? This sounds like a typical compliance car that will only be sold in CA.

EVNow, time to stop by your local Kia dealership :smile:

RT
 
Ok, Soul EV rolling out to 5 more states. Georgia in April, followed by Oregon, Washington, Texas and Hawaii in June:

Kia Expands Soul EV Availability To Additional U.S. States

I still see the $249/mo lease for the base model. No mention of lease pricing for the + model. In any case, be prepared to wrestle the dealer for every $0.05 in question. We can put an end to the compliance car talk:


RT

Uggh, is it so hard for the editor, the journalist or heaven forbid the PR person to list all the states in the release / article?

roughly in order of being allowed to sell the Kia Soul EV (number in parens is rank for EV sales in 2014)

California (2nd)
Oregon* (5th)
New York
New Jersey
Maryland
Georgia (1st)
Hawaii (4th)
Oregon* (5th)
Washington (3rd)
Texas


and why is Oregon listed in the old releases and listed as a new state now? Did they not get them selling in Oregon the first time around?

Lastly, “additional markets are set to come online in 2016,” according to Kia.

Sorry I'll still call it a compliance car until they do the 2016 additional states and maybe after that depending on which and how many states dealers are allowed to sell it. Ideally it will get above the Prius PHV (plug in Prius) as shown on Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard. In other words they need to start selling more than 400 a month instead of the 75 a month they are currently doing.

States in the top 10 for BEV sales in 2014 not covered in the 2015 states to sell the Kia Soul EV still include

Utah (6th)
Colorado (7th)
Arizona (8th)
Tennessee (9th)
Connecticut (10th)

though I have to admit I understand why they might want to avoid Arizona after the Leaf battery degradation issue. Still if they take on Arizona and don't have issues it makes a stronger statement.
 
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Sorry I'll still call it a compliance car until they do the 2016 additional states and maybe after that depending on which and how many states dealers are allowed to sell it.
I disagree that it's a compliance car. It's obvious Kia is supply-limited, and that they are ramping up production fairly rapidly. Launching it in all the states would just mean longer wait times or much higher prices.
 
I disagree that it's a compliance car. It's obvious Kia is supply-limited, and that they are ramping up production fairly rapidly. Launching it in all the states would just mean longer wait times or much higher prices.

Rapidly ramping up?

From the scorecard we have Soul EV US sales of

??? Mar 2015
48 Feb 2015
69 Jan 2015
110 Dec 2014
130 Nov 2014
109 Oct 2014

It looks like a slow down not a ramp up from those numbers. Will Mar 2015 have a spike? We'll know by this time next week.

Keep in mind the goal per Kia is to sell 5000 per year worldwide with the US having the largest share of that (see Kia Targets 5,000 Sales Annually For Soul EV - U.S. Expected To Be #1 Market For Electric Soul). If 50 percent are sold in the US making it 2500 a year we need to be seeing just over 200 a month sold. Not a high sales target for a car that on paper looks to be better than the Nissan Leaf which sells thousands a month.

To be clear I want to see more on the road and I'm impatient for Kia to make it so.
 
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Seems like KIA runs their car company just like Mitsubishi does. The hybrid Outlander sells great in Europe. Not for sale in America. Good going Mitsubishi. 2011 i-MiEV. Been withering on the vine ever since. They watched the Leaf blow right past them. Kia Soul would sell great if it was available for sale in more than a few places.

"When both F-150 plants are running at full production, they will have the combined capacity to make as many 700,000 half-ton pickups in a 12-month period"

"
For reference, according to our Cars.com sources, Ford sold more than 470,000 F-150s for the year in the U.S. and a total of 753,000 F-Series (F-150, F-250, F-350, F-450, and F-550) pickups at the end of 2014 (again, just in the U.S.), so this positions Ford to potentially to produce well over a million pickup trucks in North America when all three truck plants (Dearborn, Kansas City and Kentucky) are running at full steam."

And KIA sweats over making 100 Soul EV's! How will they ever be number 1 if they don't go big? Just breaking even and keeping the lights on must be good enough for them. Bet they work 4 hours a day.
 
Trust me; they(Kia/Mitsu/etc) won't ever step up their game when Ford/GM will and it will be business as usual.

--

Just like with the 1,000cc motorcycles; they had to use every last trick in the book to get the power levels up. The gas OEM's are going to have to do the same to meet emissions/MPG requirements. 8, 9, 10, 12 speed transmissions? I'm sure they feel forced doing hybrids; they will eventually do EV's just to make it easier on themselves on dealing with emissions/MPG. Nobody is going to let a little battery production get in their way. Well only nincompoops like kia/mitsu that is. I guess if they cared they'd try harder.

Good ol' Nissan had their own vertically integrated battery factory going in Tennessee and now want to give that up.
 
Seems like KIA runs their car company just like Mitsubishi does.
...

"When both F-150 plants are running at full production, they will have the combined capacity to make as many 700,000 half-ton pickups in a 12-month period"
...

And KIA sweats over making 100 Soul EV's! How will they ever be number 1 if they don't go big? Just breaking even and keeping the lights on must be good enough for them. Bet they work 4 hours a day.
FWIW, Kia Soul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia mentions Gwangju plant.

So, just for kicks, I looked it up and found http://pr.kia.com/en/now/tour/global-plant/gwangju-plant.do. That plant has annual production capacity of 620,000 units! And, the Kia Soul EV is listed.

Has it occurred to that you perhaps Kia itself might not be the bottleneck but rather it could be due to output constraints of their suppliers? Or, that they might already have pretty big production demands/commitments of other vehicles at that plant?

The same could be happening at their supplier(s). And, the suppliers also need to be careful about making big investments to ramp up. The demand could eventually peak, plateau, tail off or crash, possibly screwing them. And, to meet huge demand, you'll likely need to hire staff then train them. In many places, that takes awhile.

I've worked in the software space for my entire professional career and believe me, I've been frustrated when one of our OEM partners w/a hot product (at the time) was having trouble keeping up with demand. Their product was out of stock everywhere and no resellers really knew when they'd get resupplied. Prices of that device went up pretty high on eBay for awhile. Ramping up production is not as simple as turning a dial to 10 or 11.

The BEV market isn't real large in the US. February 2015 Dashboard - HybridCars.com points to a BEV take rate of 0.35% in Feb 2015 and 0.50% in December 2014 with 0.39% for all of 2014.

The Leaf (I'm leasing one), world's best selling EV sold/leased 30,200 units in the US in 2014.

And yes, 2014 U.S. Vehicle Sales Rankings - Top 280 Best-Selling Vehicles In America - Every Vehicle Ranked - GOOD CAR BAD CAR confirms your Ford F-series figure of over 750K units. The best selling car (non-truck/non-SUV) in the US was the Camry, moving 428K units.

Or, Kia doesn't really care that much beyond ZEV compliance and some a few sales here and there, in strong EV markets, to show they have something green. They may not ever be able to reach breakeven volumes, so there'd be no point in losing extra money.
 
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Rapidly ramping up?

From the scorecard we have Soul EV US sales of

??? Mar 2015
48 Feb 2015
69 Jan 2015
110 Dec 2014
130 Nov 2014
109 Oct 2014

It looks like a slow down not a ramp up from those numbers. Will Mar 2015 have a spike? We'll know by this time next week.

Keep in mind the goal per Kia is to sell 5000 per year worldwide with the US having the largest share of that (see Kia Targets 5,000 Sales Annually For Soul EV - U.S. Expected To Be #1 Market For Electric Soul). If 50 percent are sold in the US making it 2500 a year we need to be seeing just over 200 a month sold. Not a high sales target for a car that on paper looks to be better than the Nissan Leaf which sells thousands a month.

To be clear I want to see more on the road and I'm impatient for Kia to make it so.
The numbers for norway are (approximately*):

Feb 2015: 39
Jan 2015: 91
Dec 2014: 126
Nov 2014: 116
Oct 2014: 86
Sept 2014: 108

Looks like there's been a slow quarter thus far, but I am basing my prediction of Kia being supply limited on Kia Norway's prediction that they will sell 3000 Soul electrics in norway in 2015. That is an ambitious goal, right up there with VW and Nissan, and we don't have any CARB credits or anything. The only reason Kia is selling the Soul electric in Norway is that they like money. Okay, maybe Kia would be able to ramp up faster, and they are choosing not to, but in my mind that makes little sense, given that they are making money on each sale. I think it's a much more reasonable assumption that they are finding it hard to source batteries.

*(I had to extrapolate the BEV sales based on average CO2 emissions per vehicle and total number sold (both BEV and ICE). I may be off by +/- 10%.)
 
Elon is 100% correct about traditional car dealerships wanting to torpedo EVs. Case in point: This horrible anti-EV dealership Vancouver KIA in Vancouver BC Canada:

From https://www.facebook.com/groups/chevyvoltowners/permalink/968625799816712/


"A friend received this from a Kia dealer in Vancouver who is not authorized to sell the Soul EV. Shocking!
Hi,
Thank you for your interest in the Soul EV.
Are you interested because you think an EV will save you money, or because you believe it will be good for the environment? Because realistically, it will do neither. The Carbon footprint of making the electric battery is equivalent to driving the gas powered luxury Soul for 5 years, and the extra 8-10000 $ you will pay for an EV, would pay for gas in a 2.0 l GDI four cylinder for 7 years.
So again, whatever your buying motivation, savings or environment, at this point in time, the EV is a social / political statement and is good neither for your pocketbook, nor the environment.
Best Regards,
Phil Curtin
Internet Sales Manager
778.251.4200
Kia of Vancouver
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Follow up APOLOGY LETTER from Manager of the Dealership:
"Hi,
My name is Jason and I am one of the Sales Managers here at Kia Vancouver. That email your friend received is not a good sounding tone.
I do apologize to your friend that such an email was sent in the first place. If you could pass this on, that would be great.
There is some truth to the email though. A top of the line Kia Soul SX-L (gasoline powered) is about $30000, where as an EV soul will run north of $40000. However, the government just released an EV incentive as of today so it may help lower the cost to consumers to get into EV powered vehicles.
It is debatable how “environmental friendly” EV cars really are. Nickel is mined by big diesel powered machinery to gather materials to build batteries. Cars are shipped around the world using big ships running on fossil fuels. However, there is no point getting into this as it boils down to perspective with strong points on both ends.
The one thing I do like to ask potential EV customers myself is whether they believe that driving an EV will save them money in the long term. This is not true right now because the cost of an EV car compared to its gasoline counterpart is so much more expensive at the point of sale. Taking the Soul for example, a $10000 price difference does indeed buy you a lot of gas (e.g., $2000 per year on gas will get you 5 years of driving). Then we can take into consideration that gasoline cars are known and likely more reliable, regardless of the brand.
However, when it boils down to buying a car. It should only be the buyer’s views that matter. We as sales people are only here to guide and give information. Unfortunately, the tone of my salesman was very very poor. The exact same thing could have been said in a much more appropriate manner with less of a tone of “you shouldn’t buy an EV because blah blah blah blah”.
Lastly, we do not carry EV souls. Only two dealers in BC have the privilege of selling them. If you have any more general questions for me George, you may email or call me anytime. Send my apologies to your friend as well.
Best Regards,
Jason Wong
Pre-Owned & Internet Sales Manager
TEL: 604-326-6868
CELL: 778-386-5223 (text available)"
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