As I am working trying to get my design done so it can be sent back to the county, the number of possible large blade disconnects that are in the drawings is nuts. One per inverter. One per battery. I already have one for my generator. So, lets see how crazy some installs have been to meet their local code requirements.
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Lets see pictures of who has the most crazy blade disconnects
- Thread starter h2ofun
- Start date
Just be glad they're not putting that 200 A blade disconnect between your main service panel and your home loads haha. I guess you dodged that bullet where I didn't.
Do they really have you putting DC blade disconnects between your solar and your inverter? I thought the Solar Edge wave inverters were smart and would de-activate the DC side if the AC side is disconnected. That's what Enphase does with their microinverters.
I'm pretty sure @bmah would have the most number of disconnects then. Because he should have gotten hit with the big 200 A in Contra Costa County, plus he has 3x disconnects for each Powerwall, and he should have another disconnect for the inverters.
PS, I hate the 200 A big one... the damn thing gently hums/buzzes non-stop even if I'm not taking power from the grid. Sucks. It's about as loud as the Powerwall's "wooom wooom wooom" sound except it's a "bzzzzzzzzzz"
Do they really have you putting DC blade disconnects between your solar and your inverter? I thought the Solar Edge wave inverters were smart and would de-activate the DC side if the AC side is disconnected. That's what Enphase does with their microinverters.
I'm pretty sure @bmah would have the most number of disconnects then. Because he should have gotten hit with the big 200 A in Contra Costa County, plus he has 3x disconnects for each Powerwall, and he should have another disconnect for the inverters.
PS, I hate the 200 A big one... the damn thing gently hums/buzzes non-stop even if I'm not taking power from the grid. Sucks. It's about as loud as the Powerwall's "wooom wooom wooom" sound except it's a "bzzzzzzzzzz"
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(moderator note: changed crasy to crazy in thread title)
Edit: Pasting text I somehow added to @h2ofun 's post where it belongs, under myself. Below comment is in reference to post number 5 in this thread.
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Yeah, the way this website is, a thread starter only has like 5 minutes to edit their post (I think its 5 minutes). If you are not the first poster in a thread, you have longer... maybe 30 minutes?
Edit: Pasting text I somehow added to @h2ofun 's post where it belongs, under myself. Below comment is in reference to post number 5 in this thread.
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Yeah, the way this website is, a thread starter only has like 5 minutes to edit their post (I think its 5 minutes). If you are not the first poster in a thread, you have longer... maybe 30 minutes?
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Cant image a 200 disconnect. So far that has not come up
The lastest drawings show a new 60A AC disconnect on the output of each Solaredge 11.4K inverter. Must be a new requirement since it was not required when I got my final on the solar last year.
Does he have 3 disconnects per PW, or 3 PW's and 3 disconnects? I am having to have a 30A AC disconnect per battery.
All these disconnects seem to be blade type.
Because I have a generator it is being more difficult connecting everything. Sure glad I am going over with details since do not want to end up with the job starting and issues, or issues with inspector. Sure fun learning this stuff, but so much is over my head.
Opps. I would have changed, but do not see tool to do.
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He has 1x disconnect for each powerwall; but since he has 3 powerwalls I wrote 3X. Sorry about that.
Thats what I thought be maybe I missed something.
Depending what I end with, if I end up with, I will join the list of crazy stuff. I am trying to design so that I could get a lot more solar and or powerwalls if I or someone who buys my house in the future could do without any major wiring changes. Will copy to the group my engineering drawing once it is done and correct. I will be set of any kind of power outage for basically close to any length of time
If Tesla is anything like Sunrun, the "designer" does the stupidest possible thing to your home because:
1) They don't give a damn if it's ugly as hell; it's not their house.
2) They want cookie-cutter-lowest-common-denominator builds.
I can add Sunworks to that list. I did have luck with the field guys and got my inverter located inside my garage instead of outside on a dark South facing wall. My point to h2ofun was the installers have to interface with the authority having jurisdiction and I have run enough construction projects to know the value of a contractor's means and methods. It can be a fruitful collaboration. Often the field guys know the inspectors and know the code application better than the designer or I.
On the other hand I certainly would not take on the role of a designer and tell the installer that I heard on the Internet that some guy said he did not need a knife switch or two. I was not sure which path h2ofun was going down, hence my question.
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Sunrun has a policy where customers are never allowed to talk to the designers or engineers. They say it requires a lot of training to do their job, and talking to customers just messes them up. But this stubborn "customer is an idiot" mentality stays around even if the customer identifies an issue where the data collected about the home is patently false once someone looks at the house. So Sunrun would rather turn out a botched design over and over and over and over instead of taking the 15 minutes to get their data right.
I can't imagine Tesla being any better; they plug magic into some generic AI and people just kind of have to live with it. This means extreme set backs from skylights; gaps away from eaves even if they aren't the roof access for fire safety, and other completely dum-dum things to make things easy for the installer to get past inspection.
This totally sucks if you're a customer since the designer's prime directive seems to do the least amount of work possible to achieve a barely working system. Good, smaller shops may actually employ people who have the time and care to do things correctly. You need someone who empathizes with the homeowner to design something that the homeowner would be happy with as well as being fully functional.
For the mega-corps, if there's a form a customer needs to submit to get an AHJ to back off; they might not do it. If there's a need to push an interpretation of code with an AHJ, the corporates won't take the time.
Nevada County doesn't say anything about a lockable blade disconnect on the AC or DC side of an inverter. So by the strict interpretation of their own rules, OCPD disconnects that de-energize the DC panels should be fine as long as they're documented on the build plan / permit diagram. But now it'll be up to h2ofun to get a hold of an inspector at his local office and push the agenda that OCPDs are valid disconnects under published rules around worker safety in his county.
https://www.mynevadacounty.com/Docu.../Residential-Solar-PV-Submittal-Checklist-PDF
It's now the customer's job to do the legwork to request his county to produce documentation or an interpretation of existing documentation indicating why so many lockable blade disconnects are required instead of OCPDs.
Tesla has published data that discusses the topic around disconnects (link is below ... provided by azmag.gov). Basically Tesla says the onboard switch on the Powerwall itself is a "activation" switch. In the event an AHJ requires a disconnect that is more than 5 feet away or on the other side of the wall as the Powerwall, an OCPD (not a huge ugly ass switch) is code compliant as long as it is labeled and accessible.
http://azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/MagContent/Tesla_Powerwall 2_AC_AHJ_Documentation 1_3.pdf?ver=2018-02-22-161120-593
This is why pairing indoor mounted Powerwalls with an outdoor mounted Gateway 2 (with the labels it needs and OCPDs easily available for Powerwall shutdown) is supposed to be allowed.
I ran into an issue in Contra Costa because their inspectors believe the Powerwall's on-board switches were too tiny and hard to see by a worker even if a bright red sticker were put on the Powerwall unit. I guess they took their own interpretation of 706.7 (2017) that a disconnecting means cannot be smaller than an OCPD. They would have been fine with OCPDs as disconnecting means, but Sunrun decided to put blade disconnects because why the hell not.
I think h2ofun should be able to get this done in Nevada County without blade disconnects. It just might not be worth his own headache to pull this off.
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I agree with your assessment about how they work. If I was installing Powerwalls I would not care if I had one or two knife disconnects. I would not micro manage that part of the installers means and methods.
In order for me to get the best value out of a cookie cutter install like Tesla's, my plan is to move any vents so I max out the southern and western exposures. Since I plan on installing my own hybrid inverter i would preconfigure my critical loads panel and work with the installer to run the solar to my critical loads panel. That way when I install the hybrid inverter it would easily be AC coupled to the cookie cutter GT solar already in that panel and I would not have to deal with any warranty issues by subsequently swinging that circuit later.
But what if they put 4 disconnects?
I agree, if you can clear out space on your roof ahead of time (and do any roofing repair) that may be easier than commingling it with Tesla's bid since they'll likely charge too much for those types of things.
Personally, I don't think creating your own sub-panel (or generation panel) ahead of time makes sense. You'll need to pull permits and do some stuff to add that gear. And whatever you do may not be a thing that Tesla is ok with for their installs. Will Tesla let you use your own hybrid inverter? I thought with Powerwalls everything would be AC Coupled, and they'd require use of their own equipment.
I know my County requirements or at least I knew them three years ago. I have explained below why disconnects are not an issue for me.But what if they put 4 disconnects?
I had no problem pulling a permit for my last subpanel install. I have no intention of installing a Powerwall. I have a hybrid inverter with 42 kWhrs of LFP batteries. It is a DIY Powerwall with enough battery capacity for three days of energy if sun does not shine. It has 4kW of Solar panels and is AC coupled to a 5.7kW Solaredge GT system installed by Sunworks.
I am uninstalling the hybrid inverter, the batteries and panels which are only on a patio cover. I am leaving the GT system when we sell or lease this home. Unfortunately the new code requires UL listed batteries beginning in a year so the challenge will be what i can get installed on a home that I have not yet purchased. It is definitely a work in progress and needs to be flexible. I do plan on taking advantage of Tesla's great pricing on cookie cutter solar installs. I would like to get an 18 kW system.
solarAddict
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And also an RSD disconnect. Nice gutters. Is that a production meter for RECs or just for your own data?
My response was incorrect. Far left is disconnect for batteries and next one with lever is RSD. I had to zoom in and read labels to understand that.
