Letter to Mr. Musk from a 1-day old outdated Model S owner

[brkaus]

It's a trade off. With other brands, you think you got a great deal on your $70-90k Mercedes or BMW, only to find at a party a few days later your friend paid $10k less for the same car.

 

[number12]

It's a trade off. With other brands, you think you got a great deal on your $70-90k Mercedes or BMW, only to find at a party a few days later your friend paid $10k less for the same car.

Hard sell to someone (me) that paid full price at end of quarter 3 with lots of others getting discounts.

Things like true car and almost eliminated what you are describing to smart buyers..

 

[brkaus]

Hard sell to someone (me) that paid full price at end of quarter 3 with lots of others getting discounts.

Things like true car and almost eliminated what you are describing to smart buyers..

True Car appears to be dealer sponsored these days. The deals were ok before, but simply becoming the new norm. True Car is also used by Costco and other pricing services.

I negotiated significantly less then sticker on an M3, only to find a friend of mine got a much better deal.

So that's personal to me. Your case is personal to you. Both are examples of how the auto purchase system works.

 

[Tony8489]

Absolutely. There is an option that I didn't think about. Make the announcement and lower the price of the current model until the next one comes out. Its been proven that sales won't diminish.
It would be much more ethical than tricking folks when they request the latest and greatest technology.

This is de facto what happened with the September fire sale. Many of the people who just missed AP 2.0 got discounts rarely available on Teslas. Is it fair that not everyone got those discounts? Sure, but the customers of those other car manufacturers making conventional model year changes got variable pricing too via the traditional haggling process.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Are you asking what the value of a AP1.0 vehicle on 10/22 vs. the same vehicle was on 10/19? Not sure I understand the question.

Yes, that's exactly what I was asking.

 

[Shumdit]

Yes, that's exactly what I was asking.

Then let me state again: that's unknown. It's not like car values are a stock traded in a market daily where you can see it literally hours later. . It will be months before we will know truly the value "hit" the new AP suite caused to the AP1 cars (if there even is a hit). You will need a good size sample and have some AP2 cars on the secondary market sold to establish what the market considers the value difference.

 

[Tony8489]

Then let me state again: that's unknown. It's not like car values are a stock traded in a market daily where you can see it literally hours later. . It will be months before we will know truly the value "hit" the new AP suite caused to the AP1 cars (if there even is a hit). You will need a good size sample and have some AP2 cars on the secondary market sold to establish what the market considers the value difference.

+1 My vague understanding is that Autopilot 1.0 (which cost $2500 or $3000) adds about $5000 to resale value. While it's understandable that the new hardware is more expensive, it's not entirely clear that it will add much more than that $5000 to resale until much more autonomous driving capability is actually demonstrated.

We have also seen some posts from people who didn't mind paying $2500 for Autopilot 1.0 but think $5000 or $8000 is too expensive. Even though we know why the price has gone up, I suspect the fraction of buyers willing to pay for the new Autopilot is likely to decrease a bit from version 1.0.

 

[PaulusdB]

Interesting arguments, here.
But to me it looks like there's finale a small advantage to non-US buyers, e.g. here in Europe.
We seem to have the possibility of refusing delivery during the 1 to 2 months of waiting time for ownership of the finalized car to be transferred.
It happened here in September that a new X P90DL was offered for immediate delivery with a sizeable discount. Word on the P100D wasn't out, but somebody refused delivery of that vehicle anyhow. Maybe just luck, but I somehow doubt that...

 

[bak_phy]

Not happy, dont plan to drive an obselete model s car

Yep. A total brick. No value at all. A regular carriage without a horse.
I do feel your pain though and would be happy to take the car off your hands for just the cost of shipping.

 

[Shumdit]

+1 My vague understanding is that Autopilot 1.0 (which cost $2500 or $3000) adds about $5000 to resale value. While it's understandable that the new hardware is more expensive, it's not entirely clear that it will add much more than that $5000 to resale until much more autonomous driving capability is actually demonstrated.

We have also seen some posts from people who didn't mind paying $2500 for Autopilot 1.0 but think $5000 or $8000 is too expensive. Even though we know why the price has gone up, I suspect the fraction of buyers willing to pay for the new Autopilot is likely to decrease a bit from version 1.0.

I don't think I get what you are saying. How could AP1.0 add $5000 to the value of a car? Worst case someone did not pay for it to be active and when you buy the car you have to pay $3500 to turn it on correct?

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't think I get what you are saying. How could AP1.0 add $5000 to the value of a car? Worst case someone did not pay for it to be active and when you buy the car you have to pay $3500 to turn it on correct?

I think he means compared to a car that was produced before AP was available. (So no camera/radar.)

 

[FlatSix911]

Be happy that you have AP 1.0 ...

V8.0 Autopilot prevented a rear-end collision

I was on Autopilot driving eastbound on I-78 (a 2-lane divided highway with grass median) near Allentown, a normal traffic flow at 65-70 mph on a 55mph zone. All of a sudden, my MX braked very hard with some rapid beeping sounds, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee in front of me swing to the grass median. My MX stopped less than 2 car length away from a Toyota in front and the Cherokee definitely would have hit the Toyota if it didn't go to the median. All these went so fast and I didn't have time to process what exactly happened until all came to stops.

It turned out traffic came to a complete stop because of an accident on the opposite direction of I-78, and Cherokee probably didn't notice the slow down traffic until the last minute. However, new V8.0 AP in MX spotted the Toyota infront of the Cherokee using radar and applied the brake hard. Thanks Elon !!!

 

[xborg]

It's a trade off. With other brands, you think you got a great deal on your $70-90k Mercedes or BMW, only to find at a party a few days later your friend paid $10k less for the same car.

My friend got his brand new P90DL $30.000 cheaper than me in Q3 sale. Is this what you are talking about?

 

[stopcrazypp]

My friend got his brand new P90DL $30.000 cheaper than me in Q3 sale. Is this what you are talking about?

You mean a demo/loaner/inventory vehicle right? Elon was pretty clear in his recent open letter that he has cracked down on the few cases that exist worldwide and from that point forward any case where a brand new vehicle is sold below MSRP will have to be reported directly to Elon for approval.
Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[xborg]

You mean a demo/loaner/inventory vehicle right? Elon was pretty clear in his recent open letter that he has cracked down on the few cases that exist worldwide and from that point forward any case where a brand new vehicle is sold below MSRP will have to be reported directly to Elon for approval.
Elon Musk on Twitter

No, not a demo vehicle. Brand new P90D from inventory. Elon has no idea, or maybe doesn't want to speak truth.
I've waited 3 months for my vehicle, drove 10 days, waited another 3 months for replacement radar. My friend bought his new car and started driving in 7 days. He doesn't care about AP2 or P100D, as he bought the car much cheaper. But I'm furious.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, not a demo vehicle. Brand new P90D from inventory. Elon has no idea, or maybe doesn't want to speak truth.
I've waited 3 months for my vehicle, drove 10 days, waited another 3 months for replacement radar. My friend bought his new car and started driving in 7 days. He doesn't care about AP2 or P100D, as he bought the car much cheaper. But I'm furious.

An inventory vehicle is not "brand new". It is a demo vehicle because the general public would have sat in or test driven it or loaned it. By default, there is a mile and age based discount (I believe it was $1 per mile and 1% per month) to reflect the fact they are not new vehicles from factory and additional discounts if they had to clear out old cars for a new equivalent. It's titled like a new vehicle though.

In this case the P100D came out as a replacement, so they have been clearing out P90D inventory vehicles for a while already.
Tesla is reportedly heavily discounting inventory Model S P90D’s now that P100D is out

 

[xborg]

An inventory vehicle is not "brand new". It is a demo vehicle because the general public would have sat in or test driven it or loaned it. By default, there is a mile and age based discount (I believe it was $1 per mile and 1% per month) to reflect the fact they are not new vehicles from factory and additional discounts if they had to clear out old cars for a new equivalent. It's titled like a new vehicle though.

In this case the P100D came out as a replacement, so they have been clearing out P90D inventory vehicles for a while already.
Tesla is reportedly heavily discounting inventory Model S P90D’s now that P100D is out

It was not demo. They advertise them as demo, but not all of them are demo. This car was brand new.
I know they were giving huge discount since p100d out and rushing q3. But so what? Is this an excuse? P90D is still on sale. No haggle model is no more.

 

[Johan]

No, not a demo vehicle. Brand new P90D from inventory. Elon has no idea, or maybe doesn't want to speak truth.
I've waited 3 months for my vehicle, drove 10 days, waited another 3 months for replacement radar. My friend bought his new car and started driving in 7 days. He doesn't care about AP2 or P100D, as he bought the car much cheaper. But I'm furious.

This reflects poorly on you. The fact that your friend got the car cheaper should make you happy for him and in no way did it diminish the functionality of your car. Sure, with continued innovation your car is losing resale value but did you not expect that from day 1? Does it surprise you that Tesla is moving at a high speed of innovation and iterative improvements?

"I'm furious". You're a spoiled person for saying that and also someone who doesn't understand what it means to be an early adopter.

Now I got that out of my system

 

[xborg]

This reflects poorly on you. The fact that your friend got the car cheaper should make you happy for him and in no way did it diminish the functionality of your car. Sure, with continued innovation your car is losing resale value but did you not expect that from day 1? Does it surprise you that Tesla is moving at a high speed of innovation and iterative improvements?

"I'm furious". You're a spoiled person for saying that and also someone who doesn't understand what it means to be an early adopter.

Now I got that out of my system

You are too positive, and easily call someone you don't know "spoiled". Obviously you're a TSLA investor or a huge fan, you are not able to look the other way.
I'm furious, because I'm not able to drive the car I've ordered 6 months ago. And at the same time, Tesla is selling a similar spec car with a huge discount. At the sametime my car is deprecated twice. Is it so hard to empathize?
I'm sick of hearing "You got the car you've paid for". No I didn't get it. It is still in the body shop, waiting for replacement parts.
Also, Tesla is not a startup anymore, They've sold more than 150.000 cars. What early adopter you're talking about?

 

[bak_phy]

Did they give you loaner?