MichFin
Member
Actually the Tesla's are retaining their value better than Mercedes or other luxury cars.
Tesla Model S retains its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment, losing only 28% after 50k miles
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Letter to Mr. Musk from a 1-day old outdated Model S owner
- Thread starter phaduman
- Start date
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- Elon Musk Tesla Inc.
Actually the Tesla's are retaining their value better than Mercedes or other luxury cars.
Tesla Model S retains its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment, losing only 28% after 50k miles
virtualsmack
Member
return and get a full refund? how the heck can anyone think that is realistic? i know that sounds rude, but that's not how you run a business.
i'm a new owner and been on the forums for about 3 months but this is the first time i'm seeing buyer's remorse live... and it is hilarious. refunds, retrofitting, etc. i guess people just feel like they need to vent.
i'm a new owner and been on the forums for about 3 months but this is the first time i'm seeing buyer's remorse live... and it is hilarious. refunds, retrofitting, etc. i guess people just feel like they need to vent.
Deal with it.
Pat yourself on the back for buying the best car in the world. Only one better just came out yesterday.
Commend yourself on enabling the necessary transition to all electric cars.
Then take a ride in your amazing automobile.
Pat yourself on the back for buying the best car in the world. Only one better just came out yesterday.
Commend yourself on enabling the necessary transition to all electric cars.
Then take a ride in your amazing automobile.
Wait.. how is that apple-to-apple comparison? This is the same as people buying the BMW right before the announcement. If you argue other car makers have yearly update so people can time better, I think it is a fair argument, but I am not sure if this is the same comparison.. Tesla just has a shorter timeline between the announcement and the availability.
mkspeedr
Member
These threads make me worry me. Who has $90K for a new car but does not realize new models come out this time every year - probably for 100 years.
In the 50s and 60s - new engines happened every year - body styles changed completely. Change is good.
My mom picked up her P85D 1 hour after the P90D was announced.
In the 50s and 60s - new engines happened every year - body styles changed completely. Change is good.
My mom picked up her P85D 1 hour after the P90D was announced.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Seriously. Just take the stock profits two years from now and buy a new one once fully autonomy is approved.
These "open letters" are getting annoying. People are waaaaay too spoiled these days.
dandurston
Member
Anyone truly concerned about buying soon obsolete hardware should get on the forums/websites before a purchase and keep their ear to the ground. It was near certain a major update was coming for the last couple weeks and pretty obvious for the last couple months.
Just like how I wouldn't buy a new MacBook before Apple's Oct 27th event, I wouldn't have bought a Tesla in the last couple weeks.
In fairness to Tesla, they look like they did everything they could to minimize this situation by flushing the pipeline of cars as much as possible prior to Q4.
Just like how I wouldn't buy a new MacBook before Apple's Oct 27th event, I wouldn't have bought a Tesla in the last couple weeks.
In fairness to Tesla, they look like they did everything they could to minimize this situation by flushing the pipeline of cars as much as possible prior to Q4.
Sandman1962
Member
My advice is to drive the car and enjoy it as much as possible. I was lucky and received the refreshed model while expecting the original body. Soon the P100D and DL were announced. And now the AP2. While it would be nice to be able to afford these new upgraded options, the price difference is almost a base Model 3. I choose to enjoy the car, utilize the superchargers for travel, and hope when my awesome Model S needs replacing, that Tesla has advanced the technology even further.
(This reminds me of when the Mac computer first came out and next versions had the processor speed increased and the memory expanded. Early adopters were upset! That is the price we all pay.)
(This reminds me of when the Mac computer first came out and next versions had the processor speed increased and the memory expanded. Early adopters were upset! That is the price we all pay.)
As someone who placed an order for a P85D two years ago as a result of the reveal event and had to wait a long time to get the features on the car I paid for (long after it was delivered), and who is still waiting for much of that functionality to work as promised, I have good news for you. Musk may have promised a lot yesterday, but it will be a LOOOONG time before any of it, or even a substantial amount of it, actually is available for use. So you can drive your new car for years without having any fears that you are at a disadvantage compared to newer Teslas.
Yep.... that's the way that the ball bounces. With Tesla, the only way that you can assure that you've got the most current vehicle is to buy it immediately after one of these announcements. And the day after the announcement, the clock starts ticking until the next one. AP2.0, at least, was fairly predictable. It was going to happen in the next few months, no matter what.
I have a top-end 2014, AP 1.0 P85D model that was the king of the hill for a handful of months. And now it's 3-4 major steps down. Oh well. It's still a fantastic car and it still keeps improving every few months. I get the disappointment... I really do. But that's the way it works with Tesla. And no... they won't refund 100% or anything like what you've suggested. You might ask about an immediate trade; they might give you a good deal but it will still hurt. And an upgrade probably borders on near impossible. Somebody (Elon??) likened it to a spinal cord transplant.
As a consolation, I personally expect that it will be a long long while before the AP2.0 functionality is particularly more advanced than 1.0. December perhaps. But likely not 2016.
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Xminus6
Member
I'm not sure I understand the logic of leasing vs. buying when it comes to Teslas. I purchased my '14 Model S and I have some amount of equity in it ($8-10k). My OOP costs weren't that far off from the Cap Cost Reduction of the lease and the payments are very close. Plus, we drive our car more than the lease parameters allow.
The way I look at it, I've come out ahead on the purchase vs. the lease. I plan on purchasing the Model X that I ordered last week unless there's some compelling reason to switch it to a lease. On the configurator on their site the lease and loan payments and the drive-off costs are nearly the same anyway. Leasing seems like it's most useful when the payments are less than loan payments.
What's the benefit of leasing here?
Garlan Garner
Banned
Absolutely NOT.
A 2016 version of a GM car is totally understood and expected to be better than a 2015 version.
Whats not understood is that a person who buys a 2015 GM corvette in February be upgraded in June of the same year with options that are unavailable to February buyers.
Yearly upgrades cool in ICE cars. When my car is outdated 2 days after I receive it - IN THE SAME YEAR is ludicrous.
Threads like these, high-end car owners complaining that their very new cars have been upstaged by an even newer release, remind me of the concept that actually buying cars over a certain price point is more about prestige and ego than value.
There certainly can be strong arguments made that some high priced cars are absolutely worth every penny, due to the technology they bring to the table... and the Tesla is probably the most technically advanced automobile of all... for those that look at automobile transportation objectively, it's somewhat hard to justify paying 6 figures for a 7 series Beemer when a Toyota Avalon can get one to work just as effectively for much less. So there must be some subjective valuation being factored in that permits otherwise rational people to pull the trigger on very expensive transportation purchases. I suspect it is these folks who feel "betrayed" by the recent announcement from Fremont.
There certainly can be strong arguments made that some high priced cars are absolutely worth every penny, due to the technology they bring to the table... and the Tesla is probably the most technically advanced automobile of all... for those that look at automobile transportation objectively, it's somewhat hard to justify paying 6 figures for a 7 series Beemer when a Toyota Avalon can get one to work just as effectively for much less. So there must be some subjective valuation being factored in that permits otherwise rational people to pull the trigger on very expensive transportation purchases. I suspect it is these folks who feel "betrayed" by the recent announcement from Fremont.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I fully disagree. I know the ball bounces that way...however people have every right to express that they don't like the ball bouncing that way.
Why would you be upset about your 2014 car being upgraded/updated in 2016. That would be stupid.
Don't we have a heart anymore?
I am thrilled to see the progress Tesla is making on the new Model S/X/3 towards full autonomous vehicles. I am very disheartened that I bought (not leased, as I think Model S is a car worth 10yr of supremely enjoyable ownership) a $90K Model S brand new from your factory on Tuesday (18th Oct) that is already "outdated" and perhaps has a significant devaluation. When I put the deposit for this car in September, I even bought TSLA stock as I believe in the future Tesla has. But my car is no longer a "futuristic" car.
What I am most disheartened about is the fact that I waited so long to finally buy the dream car, and the excitement didn't last more than 24hours :-((.
I would like for Mr. Musk to consider this request not just for my case, but likely for many of those new car buyers that bought the X and S in the last quarter (Q3), and offer them some options:
(1) return vehicles with < 1K miles and refund the full money
(2) give them a "credit" for trade-in (e.g. $10K) to account for the devaluation that just happened
(3) even better option:
- offer the NVIDIA/compute upgrade for all AP1.0 cars
- optionally include the tri-camera h/w upgrade
The reason #3 is valuable in that, (a) you will instantly win the hearts of all your early adopters and supporters. (b) you will get a chance to remove all MBLEYE chipsets from all Teslas. This will help your firmware and s/w team to deliver code on one platform, whether AP1 or APX cars. Trust me - I have been in silicon valley for 18yrs and managed projects where engineers had to support code on multiple gen of platforms and it impacted the performance, time, and quality of the final delivery by at least 30% - and allowed newcomers to gain upper hand with faster releases with a single new platform.
Thoughts for your Area 51 (Yes we did the tour and it was cool to see the name) leaders:
- when next-gen AP s/w is ready, also make it work with Gen1 AP sensors (1-camera, 1-radar, low-sensitive sonars, backup camera possibly)
- offer a one-time service fee to replace the MBLEYE compute chipsets
Now, you have 3 tiers of sensors the NVIDIA chipsets & s/w will work with:
(1) gen-1 sensors: 1-camera, 1-radar, gen-1 sonars, and (un)likely backup camera
(2a) gen-2 APE sensors: 4 cameras, 1 radar, 12 new sonars
(3b) gen-2 APF sensors: the full array of cameras
In my opinion, the NVIDIA is ready for even more in the future. Some thoughts:
(3) gen-3 APF2 sensors (future, likely 2yrs from now, Oct 2018 would be my guess
(4) gen-4 APF3 activators: now that Tesla cars and occupants are safe, it is time to make the world a bit safer for non-Tesla drivers. e.g. Gen1-4 h/w above likely cannot avoid a rear-ending if the car/driver behind is distracted (texting). How about the rear camera/sensor not only senses the vehicle speed behind and notes the rate of acceleration difference between that car and the Tesla, but also has a rear-pointing honk/bright flashing lights/laser lights/radio-jamming RF transmitters etc to communicate with the driver behind to get their attention. We might just save a rear-ending accident situation (assuming the Tesla cannot make last minute maneuver to get out of the lane altogether, sometimes that may not be possible).
(5) Gen-5: all cloud intelligence that sends to each vehicle (whether Tesla or not) the other cars conditions on the road so they become "social" cars after all and can maintain a better distance/space between each other, all from a "cloud" connected central nervous system. I know your team is already working on the central neural networks, and even Gen-1 cars will likely benefit from this over time, but it is time to make the whole world a better place, not just the Teslas on the road. I assume in about 10yrs from now, hopefully, 10% of the cars in the world would be Teslas. The rest 90% can still have their own sensors to protect from local instantaneous dangerous situations, but they could benefit by having a central nervous system (in the cloud) that can exchange real-time update of "vehicles" near me that are beyond visibility (beyond 250m).
Mr. Musk,
Would you please bring along the Gen-1 car owners, your most loyal and devoted fans, with you as you journey into the future? Would you consider this request?
Your newest fan (1-day old AP1.0 Gen Model S owner) and likely speaking on behalf of all AP1.0 car owners
PN, San Jose, CA
I don't think this is going to happen and I think history has proven that you are wasting your time
Garlan Garner
Banned
What does it hurt. Its not our time - its his time. Lets encourage him/her.
Lets have a heart.
I am SO HAPPY that I boughtnotleased a GREEN Model S. Even more so because shortly thereafter, Tesla discontinued that wonderful color, making it that much more rare and sought after.
So it cuts both ways. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
So it cuts both ways. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Geesh...people get hit on the head with a rock and we walk up with a boulder to finish them off. Have a heart people.
To be upset is completely understandable. Demanding a refund/retro fit is not.
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