Lightweight wheel owners - your feedback on unsprung reduction vs stock

[davidviolin]

Only a 5% range increase? I was hoping for closer to 10% switching to my Titan 7 18x8.5.

the aeros seem

I think about 5% from switching from 20" to 18" both with Pilot Sport 4 is actually pretty good. Thats a range increase of 15 miles.

I would figure another 5% increase if I was using the EV01+ wheels with the inserts and with the same PS4 tire, and probably another 5% from switching to a low rolling resistance tire like the Michelin Energy Saver. I really hope someone can properly test this so we can make a chart thats accurate of range with these different wheels, tires and weight.

How do you like the Titan wheels and what tire did you go with? I am kind of kicking myself for ordering the TST 18" and not splurging on the Titan ones to save even more weight...

 

[Xenoilphobe]

wat. 63 lbs per wheel without the tire? Are they made out of lead?

Monoblock forged Wheel
18x8.5 / +35 Wheel Weight: Estimated 18.3lbs

Stock Tesla Model 3 Wheels
18x8.5 +40 Weight: 21.6 lbs (Without Aero Cover)
18X8.5 +40 Weight: 23.0 lbs (With Aero Cover)
19x8.5 +40 Weight: 25.0 lbs
20x8.5 +35 Weight: 28.75 lbs


Stock Tesla Model S Wheels
19x8.0" Model S Base Wheel Weight: 29.5 lbs
19x8.0" Slipstream Model S Wheel Weight: 29lbs
19x8.0" Cyclone Model S Wheel Weight: 29.8 lbs
21" Turbine Model S Wheel Weight: 21x8.5" = ~35.2 lbs (without tire), 21x9.0" = ~38 lbs (without tire) - I sold two sets of these OEM boat anchors after multiple side wall blow-outs.
21" Twin Turbine Model S Wheel Weight: 21x9.0" = ~35.2 lbs (without tire)
21" Arachnid Model S Wheel Weight: 21x8.5" = 27.85 lbs (without tire), 21x9.0" = ~ 28.75 lbs (without tire)

By comparison a good mono block forged wheel for a Tesla Model S weights about 20 lbs in 19 X 9 and for the Model 3 weights about 19 lbs, so 10 pounds per corner is an easy gain for Model S owners and if you are a Model 3 owner moving from 20's to 18's save you 10 lbs per corner too. If you pick the right tire you can lose even more weight, however dont compromise that over performance specs of the tires.

Model S Source & Model 3 Source

 

[ElectricIAC]

I think about 5% from switching from 20" to 18" both with Pilot Sport 4 is actually pretty good. Thats a range increase of 15 miles.

I would figure another 5% increase if I was using the EV01+ wheels with the inserts and with the same PS4 tire, and probably another 5% from switching to a low rolling resistance tire like the Michelin Energy Saver. I really hope someone can properly test this so we can make a chart thats accurate of range with these different wheels, tires and weight.

How do you like the Titan wheels and what tire did you go with? I am kind of kicking myself for ordering the TST 18" and not splurging on the Titan ones to save even more weight...

I honestly can’t see myself switching out to 18” for 10 miles real world range (or 15mi pretend range)
Double or triple that and I’m down.

 

[davidviolin]

I honestly can’t see myself switching out to 18” for 10 miles real world range (or 15mi pretend range)
Double or triple that and I’m down.

If you want to triple that, go with the EV01+ wheels and a low rolling resistance tire easy.

Fast Wheels EV01(+)

 

[ElectricIAC]

If you want to triple that, go with the EV01+ wheels and a low rolling resistance tire easy.

Fast Wheels EV01(+)

Not a bad price actually..

And these will clear P3D+ caliper?

 

[davidviolin]

And these will clear P3D+ caliper?

If you have P3D+ with the red calipers, make sure you get the 70.2 mm bore and 35mm offset for stock fit.

The extra bore lip is machined for exact OEM fit. With the inserts, you should get at least 10% increase in range over the 20" stock and improved acceleration. These wheels are lighter than the Tesla stock 18" wheels even and have same efficiency.

Fast Wheels EV01(+)

The Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (not S) with the TO marking developed by Michelin/Tesla, would be a great fit.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4&partnum=345YR8PS4XLAC&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2018&autoModel=Model 3&autoModClar=Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Not a bad price actually..

And these will clear P3D+ caliper?

Are these mono block forged?

 

[kailm]

This post packs a lot of misinformation into a compact space.

First of all range has almost nothing to do with unsprung weight. While that does impact 0 to 60 times in terms of increased versus decreased rotational inertia, it does not impact range. Secondly, I'm not sure who you're referencing when you talk about how everybody complains about range and 0 to 60 times? Who's complaining? Third, the range for the Dual Motor Performance version is actually 310 miles and not 280 miles.

There is a document from Tesla about this. Heavier wheel will give you reduced range, this is fact. It even adjusts range when you select the wheel type. This isn't misinformation. Physics should make sense.

Read
Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com

 

[dfwatt]

There is a document from Tesla about this. Heavier wheel will give you reduced range, this is fact. It even adjusts range when you select the wheel type. This isn't misinformation. Physics should make sense.

Again you're conflating two oftentimes related factors into one factor, leading to needless confusion. One Factor is the unsprung weight difference which again is less than 1% of the total vehicle weight in relationship to the wheel options Tesla has (difference between the Aero wheels and the OEM boat anchors is probably about 6 lb,) and the other is drag and rolling resistance. As you change wheel diamter you also change both your rolling resistance and drag. This is why 20 inch wheels and ultra-high-performance low profile tires deteriorate your range.

With Vs forged 20in alloy wheels which weigh about 21 pounds a-piece my set up with stock Michelin OEM Pilot Sport in the 235 / 35 Tire weighs less or roughly the same has the stock 18" aeros, yet gets notably worse Watt hours per mile consumption. That proves that it's not unsprung weight it's drag and rolling resistance. And while the unsprung weight difference might account for maybe <1% of range at most, the rest of it is these other two factors.

 

[kailm]

Again you're conflating two oftentimes related factors into one factor, leading to needless confusion. One Factor is the unsprung weight difference which again is less than 1% of the total vehicle weight in relationship to the wheel options Tesla has (difference between the Aero wheels and the OEM boat anchors is probably about 6 lb,) and the other is drag and rolling resistance. As you change wheel diamter you also change both your rolling resistance and drag. This is why 20 inch wheels and ultra-high-performance low profile tires deteriorate your range.

With Vs forged 20in alloy wheels which weigh about 21 pounds a-piece my set up with stock Michelin OEM Pilot Sport in the 235 / 35 Tire weighs less or roughly the same has the stock 18" aeros, yet gets notably worse Watt hours per mile consumption. That proves that it's not unsprung weight it's drag and rolling resistance. And while the unsprung weight difference might account for maybe <1% of range at most, the rest of it is these other two factors.

This is I agree it all impacts range. But keeping a light wheel rotating at high speed vs a lighter one, it does consume more energy.
Also read here Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com for the EPA calculation. There is a manual somewhere where * is indicated on the performance 20 inch that indicates it should be 280 mile range as per the above documentation. Its the EPA delta that is allowed hence rated at 310.

 

[dfwatt]

This is I agree it all impacts range. But keeping a light wheel rotating at high speed vs a lighter one, it does consume more energy.

Nope, mostly not, Newton's first law. And the other data that you're quoting offers no evidence that it's a 5 lb difference in wheel weight that accounts for the range difference.

 

[kailm]

Nope, mostly not, Newton's first law. And the other data that you're quoting offers no evidence that it's a 5 lb difference in wheel weight that accounts for the range difference.

Newtons first law... I guess there is no opposing force and we drive cars in space.
This fact has been beaten to death in every single sports car forum. Corvette, z350, bmw m3....
5 pounds unsprung is equal to 15lbs of vehicle weight.

The document shows a fact on how EPA tested the LRD with 18s only and gave the EPA estimate of 310.
LRD and LDRP have same part # of the motor hence NOT tested with 20s. This is fact, accept it.

 

[davidviolin]

5 pounds unsprung is equal to 15lbs of vehicle weight.

5 pounds unsprung is equal to 15lbs of vehicle weight... when it comes to acceleration. For constant speed (which cars rarely operate at) the weight is what it is, sprung or unsprung. But lower weight, wherever it is, does require less energy to move. Always.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’m down to try the EV01’s. Any AS Tire reco’s that won’t significantly degrade cornering and traction performance?

 

[kailm]

Would you agree you are accelerating constantly at a constant speed? With road and wind decelerating you?
Hence your rotational inertia is constantly consuming more energy on a heavier wheel for your small little accelerations?
This is greatly amplified in traffic.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Would you agree you are accelerating constantly at a constant speed? With road and wind decelerating you?
Hence your rotational inertia is constantly consuming more energy on a heavier wheel for your small little accelerations?
This is greatly amplified in traffic.

There’s some meat to that: I definitely notice better consumption when maintaining speed or small variations of speeding up and slowing down.

 

[davidviolin]

I’m down to try the EV01’s. Any AS Tire reco’s that won’t significantly degrade cornering and traction performance?

There are a variety of good options, including Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3. Make sure you get the option with the Aero covers though, EV01+ not just EV01. Buying the inserts separately is much more expensive.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

There is a document from Tesla about this. Heavier wheel will give you reduced range, this is fact. It even adjusts range when you select the wheel type. This isn't misinformation. Physics should make sense.

Read
Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com

This further supports your claim, the lighter the wheel, the longer the range, if you can find 18 inch wheels that weight under 19 lbs you will see even further range increases.

 

[dfwatt]

Newtons first law... I guess there is no opposing force and we drive cars in space.
This fact has been beaten to death in every single sports car forum. Corvette, z350, bmw m3....
5 pounds unsprung is equal to 15lbs of vehicle weight.

The document shows a fact on how EPA tested the LRD with 18s only and gave the EPA estimate of 310.
LRD and LDRP have same part # of the motor hence NOT tested with 20s. This is fact, accept it.

Conservation of angular momentum. It's actually an extension of Newton's first law. Look it up. Unsprung weight means more in relationship to acceleration than other forms of weight. It does not mean more than regular weight in relationship to energy consumption. You can look that up too

 

[Cobalt3]

I switched to rotary forged 18" TSW Nurburgring's (18x8 ET35) and Iove them. I'd say they make the car feel a little more nimble. I weighed them on a Fedex scale and they came in at 19.65 pounds. Stock one's are 18×8.5 ET40 and 21.60 pounds w/o aeros, so I only saved about 2 pounds per corner. I really like them and the feel of the car but am by no means a wheel expert compared to others around here. I will say I feel slightly faster than before with or without aeros but that could just be placebo.

There is also this comprehensive wheel fitment guide for the model 3 which may be helpful to you.

View attachment 482962

Do you have other photos of your Nurburgrings on your car? I'm on the fence about the gunmetal vs. the mirror-cut finish and I'm hoping some photos of these on another blue Model 3 will help me decide. Thanks in advance.