Lightweight wheel owners - your feedback on unsprung reduction vs stock

[dale_cooper]

I see several threads around (mainly) p3d owners downsizing from the stock 20" to a lightweight 18 , 19, or even forged 20 setup. That said, I'm not seeing much direct feedback on how the reduction of unsprung weight changed your opinion on the feel of your 3....

My situation - on my dual motor non perf car, I went from aeros/mxm4 to a heavier 19" setup that weighs 52lb per wheel tire (26lb tire + 26lb rim). Obvious loss of range due to tire patch/offset/weight. However, random sidenote, it does seem that weight is only part of the range equation and the actual wheel design and offset are heavy contributors. Interested in comments on that, but my main thing is the FEEL of a 3 with lighter wheels.

As soon as I first drove my car, I could feel either the slightly increased diameter (245/40), or the "heavy" feel when moving from a stop and changing directions. Maybe the offset is part of this also (+33 vs +40 stock). I love the look of my 19's but I miss the "nimble" or "lighter on its feet" feeling of the aero wheels and am tempted to go for a forged 19, or hell, even put back on my aeros as the aeros are kinda hard to beat for a daily driver (or at the very least, throw on the aeros for science and to see if its a placebo effect). On other cars, when I've gone to lighter wheels, I love the eager, light feeling when coming from a stop light or changing direction.

Just looking for feedback of people who have either gone to heavy wheels, and the change in feel does/does not bother them - or - gone to lightweight wheels who really appreciate the nimble feel and would never go back.

Thanks!

 

[CXNperformance]

I have a LR AWD that came with aeros, I upgraded the wheels to 20"s staggered , wheels alone is 29lbs front, 30lbs back, I felt the loss of power taking off and from a roll, there is more rotation weight to move around, I love my wheels (Tsportline TSS) but they are to heavy, I plan to buy new forged wheels soon on the same 18" aero weight range 22-23lbs...... Range suffered a little when I did the switch but improved once again when I installed the Eibach lowering springs.

 

[dale_cooper]

I have a LR AWD that came with aeros, I upgraded the wheels to 20"s staggered , wheels alone is 29lbs front, 30lbs back, I felt the loss of power taking off and from a roll, there is more rotation weight to move around, I love my wheels (Tsportline TSS) but they are to heavy, I plan to buy new forged wheels soon on the same 18" aero weight range 22-23lbs...... Range suffered a little when I did the switch but improved once again when I installed the Eibach lowering springs.

I love the tss wheels and still consider them in 19" as they're under 24 lbs and to me, look OEM which I really like. Seems you've had an identical experience. Did you ever put aeros back on the car to feel the difference? I don't think our cars are actually accelerating slower if we timed it. However the perception just seems a little more sluggish.

 

[MagnusMako]

I switched to rotary forged 18" TSW Nurburgring's (18x8 ET35) and Iove them. I'd say they make the car feel a little more nimble. I weighed them on a Fedex scale and they came in at 19.65 pounds. Stock one's are 18×8.5 ET40 and 21.60 pounds w/o aeros, so I only saved about 2 pounds per corner. I really like them and the feel of the car but am by no means a wheel expert compared to others around here. I will say I feel slightly faster than before with or without aeros but that could just be placebo.

There is also this comprehensive wheel fitment guide for the model 3 which may be helpful to you.

 

[dale_cooper]

I switched to rotary forged 18" TSW Nurburgring's (18x8 ET35) and Iove them. I'd say they make the car feel a little more nimble. I weighed them on a Fedex scale and they came in at 19.65 pounds. Stock one's are 18×8.5 ET40 and 21.60 pounds w/o aeros, so I only saved about 2 pounds per corner. I really like them and the feel of the car but am by no means a wheel expert compared to others around here. I will say I feel slightly faster than before with or without aeros but that could just be placebo.

There is also this comprehensive wheel fitment guide for the model 3 which may be helpful to you.

View attachment 482962

Thanks for the link - I'm well aware of what wheels fit, and how they fit, as I sourced my own aftermarket wheels which are currently on the car.

My main purpose of the thread is general discussion of people who reduced unsprung weight, or.... increased it, but were unhappy and went back to lighter wheels (like CXNperformance, and I, will probably do). I guess I'm a little surprised I don't hear more about the feel or driving dynamics changing when people have switched to different aftermarket wheels. I have a feeling (reading tire review threads on here), that people may just not be sensitive to it, or, they would rather have the "look" than the feel.

 

[shuhockey]

Hi. Engineering Explained has a video on this, as he replaced his wheels. Has some acceleration tests and calcs.

 

[dale_cooper]

Hi. Engineering Explained has a video on this, as he replaced his wheels. Has some acceleration tests and calcs.

Thanks - yeah, I've seen this, and I've also seen the better video performed by one of the guys at FAST wheels. Both videos focus on a seemingly pointless 0-60 time. What neither video truly talks about is what you feel when driving on the lighter wheels. Steering feel, turn in, lugging around - the perceived feel of the car you actually experience when driving.

Regardless - I'm already decided I'm going back to aero wheels on higher performance tires so I'll be the test dummy at my own expense, for the benefit of others.

 

[Tres_Azul]

Good luck! I'm in for the same answers you're after. My car is mainly a commuter, but I do like to do some spirited driving too.

I'm still running OEM MXM4 on the stock 18", w/out the covers. So not much to add now. Historically, I've gravitated to the smallest/lightest reliable and appropriate wheel / tire setup to maximize that 'light on your feet' feel in steering / transitional movements.

I can say that small PSI changes make more difference in steering feel on this SR+ than I remember noticing with other cars. Specifically, I like that the recommended PSI seems to give slightly more 'nimble' or accurate feel during 3/10 to 7/10 street driving. With other cars I've had, especially once on aftermarket wheels/tires, steering feel and at limit behavior benefited from different non-oem tire pressures.
(Haven't been to a track / HPDE yet to see how it behaves during use in those last few 'tenths', will likely adjust opinion accordingly when I do...)

When dropped to 36-39psi, during normal street use, the MXM4 sidewalls noticeably deflect more during turn-in. Which, IMHO, negatively impacts the little bit of feel you get through the electric steering. So, I've now put them back up to 42psi cold. So far, I think I'll stay at 42psi for the street/the oem tires.

side note: The MXM4s may be very slightly quieter @ 42psi vs 38-39psi. Maybe? Perhaps the higher psi moves the pitch of the noise higher, in portion of spectrum where the foam works better? Jury is still out on that... Hands & butt dyno feel more NVH @ 42psi tho, and rear shelf area tells me it feels it too... YMMV

 

[Davidss2]

So I have worked for years as a test driver for magazines and tire companies. I personally don't think I can feel a couple pound difference in wheels/tires. If anyone says they can I think it is probably placebo.

 

[dale_cooper]

So I have worked for years as a test driver for magazines and tire companies. I personally don't think I can feel a couple pound difference in wheels/tires. If anyone says they can I think it is probably placebo.

Interesting, and surprising.

As soon as I drove away from putting the new (heavier) wheels on, I felt it. My other experiences were prior cars. On my Golf R and GTI, I definitely felt it in both cases when moving from heavy stock wheels to lighter wheels.

 

[240W]

^same tires, and width?

usually tires makes the biggest difference

my new 19's are .5 wider yet lighter than the stock 18's, it feels much sticker to the road because of the wider tires and tires themselves (mxm4 stockers to p4s)

 

[dale_cooper]

^same tires, and width?

usually tires makes the biggest difference

my new 19's are .5 wider yet lighter than the stock 18's, it feels much sticker to the road because of the wider tires and tires themselves (mxm4 stockers to p4s)

How heavy are your 19s? You're experiencing the benefit of tire compound. If you would've put ps4s on your aero wheels, the difference would've blown you away.

I don't believe tire compound is at play in my situation, and/or not the thing I'm focusing on this thread - I went from touring tires to touring tires. THe tires on the 19's, likely have better grip than the stock mxm4, and are also wider. Regarding my experience from prior cars, one time I transitioned, while still utilizing the same tire. Other time, it was lighter wheel but similar category of tire.

 

[outdoors]

Have the +39 18's from Titan7. Now they are +35 offered. Stock was +40. Can I feel anything? Not really sure. 5% here and there from Tesla in gains make it hard to see anything over a period of time.

I just wanted a forged wheel that I might be able to offset aero loss with weight reduction and strength. I drive backcountry roads. Slam corners and have fun. You will never see me on a track or stuff like that. Thus far 38k in I am below rated energy usage in summer months. Just took them off to put snow tires on. Swapping them the guy at Costco loading them was like wow those are light.

 

[dale_cooper]

Alright guys, long time bump to this thread with an update to my own experimentation. I ended up getting rid of the niche wheels and 245/40/19 pure contact tires. Put the stock aero wheels and mxm4 back on the car - nope, definitely NOT a placebo effect. Way different and I much prefer the agility and dynamics of the stock wheels. Quicker turn in, less effort with pushing the "go" pedal, car just felt better all around.

Meanwhile, my friend put pure contact 245/45/18 on his stock aero wheels. His car wasn't as "laggy" feeling as my 19" setup but did not feel as good as stock; I think the tire compound of the pure contact may really have something to do with it.


So finally, I got a set of 19's that weigh a little over 23lbs - 23.4 or so. This time, I decide to follow my original gut and get 245/40 conti DWS06 tires (which are a great tire from my experience). This setup is so....much.....betterrrrrrrrrrr than the original 19's I bought. Car still has the athletic feeling, not heavy, and these tires are quiet, and feel like they have confident grip. Its nearly changed the entire opinion of my car. I'm so happy. I can only imagine how awesome a summer tire would feel.

I'm very surprised I don't hear more commentary on this forum about people getting heavier wheels or different tires. Maybe people just aren't sensitive to it. I 100% felt the difference and would advise people to be very careful when making selections. Looking back, the original 19" setup was indeed bad. To me, the model 3 shoudl have a performance tire on it. My original gut was to go performance all season like dws or as3+, but I got caught up worrying about range. Not anymore, the feel of the driving dynamics is far more important.

 

[Msjulie]

Everyone has different priorities I suppose, I'm happy with OEM 19's and tires and the range

 

[jkoya]

I went from the OEM 20" at 28.75 lbs/wheel to the Titan7 T-S5 wheels at 18.3 lbs/wheel with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires. I think the car does accelerate quicker now, but I have no acceleration time data to prove it. Width and offset of the Titan7s were the same as the stock 20"s.

 

[Zapp]

I did this on my prior BMW RWD 340.

Before: 26 lb wheels 18x8.0 225/45/18 front and 18x8.5 rear 255/40/18. Tires were Michelin Pilot Super Sport
After: 18x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear at 19 lb each. The exact same tires were remounted on the lighter wheels.

• The car felt like it had more grip with quicker side to side direction changes.
• The car felt more responsive to throttle inputs.
• The suspension felt faster and better able to keep the wheels in contact with the road especially on a bumps windy road.
• Overall, it felt like a sportier, more responsive car and worth the time and expense in my opinion.

An article that performed a comparison like this from a few years ago is attached for those interested in an independent test.

 

[davidviolin]

I have a M3P+ and went from stock 20" P tires to 18" tsportline with PSP4S. Car feels quicker, more comfortable ride, and about 5% efficiency improvement.

In hindsight I would have dropped the extra money on the Titan wheels and gone with the PS4S's with the TO marking (the ones with foam inside and specifically designed by Michelin/Tesla). I would use that as my daily driver, and gotten then EV01+ wheel with the Michelin Energy saver tire for road trips. Efficiency with the stock 20" brings range on highway down to around 210 Miles on a full charge, which is pretty bad.

I had a chat with a guy who just picked up his M3P and he was really upset and said he would return his car because he thought he would get 310 miles of range, and his daily commute was 240 miles. He was getting 204 miles of range with his M3P. It cannot be emphasized enough what a difference smaller wheels make.

Model 3 P should come with the Aero wheels stock. The prices for the low profile 20" P wheels are crazy and they break all the time. There is literally no reason to get the 20" tires other than looks.
They reduce range, they break easier, they are more expensive, and they are less comfortable, AND they reduce acceleration.

My recommendation for the M3P+ if I were to do it all over again:

Get the Fast Wheels EV01+ (make sure you get the inserts) with the Michelin Energy Saver A/S for road trips. (For M3P get the 35mm offset and 70.2 mm version= OEM fit) (Fast Wheels EV01(+)). This should be a 15% range improvement over the stock 20" P wheels which is huge.

Get the Titan forged 18" 8.5 lightweight wheels paired with the Michelin PS4S TO for daily driving. Same wheel size on all corners.

 

[Cobalt3]

I switched to rotary forged 18" TSW Nurburgring's (18x8 ET35) and Iove them. I'd say they make the car feel a little more nimble. I weighed them on a Fedex scale and they came in at 19.65 pounds. Stock one's are 18×8.5 ET40 and 21.60 pounds w/o aeros, so I only saved about 2 pounds per corner. I really like them and the feel of the car but am by no means a wheel expert compared to others around here. I will say I feel slightly faster than before with or without aeros but that could just be placebo.

There is also this comprehensive wheel fitment guide for the model 3 which may be helpful to you.

View attachment 482962

Exactly the wheel I'm getting (in mirror cut finish) when Spring arrives.

 

[kailm]

Go for 18inch with 18lb wheels. Ankle weight is the worst thing for the car. The only time you can over look it is for bigger brakes for tracking. If you don't do that, then its the looks which are subjective to how much cooler it looks. In the end everyone complains about range and 0-60 acceleration, which you deal with 99% of the time.
If i could fit a 17lb wheel that is 17inch I would do it. It would give you probably 15+ miles compared to the 18 aeros. At that point it can't be treated as a sports car in anyway.

P3d stock 20 is rated at 280mi not 310mi!