Little to no media coverage of the Coast-to-Coast RT and Elon's EU speeches

[mitch672]

While SuperChargers themselves are not all that interesting to the public, and the cost of the Model S is relatively high, the public hasn't grasped the fact that cross country travel is free, if you own a Tesla, or they simply don't care (yet), it's not an "attention grabbing headline" that news organizations would publish "one per centers travel for free in Tesla Model S's long distances"

When the much more affordable Model E arrives in a few years, and free cross country and long distance travel is possible in a $35-40K car, then the "ah hah" moment will occur, game over ICE cars. I'd expect to see resale value plummet for most ICE cars, and rise for anything with the name "Tesla" on it

 

[Mayhemm]

I'm also not sure what your disagreement is and why you chose to be snarky. I did say it's a important thing. It's just not a splashy PR thing. Those aren't the same. Remember when Elon was asked what would surprise people about the S and he said the level of safety? He said he led with that once and it really fell flat, so he stopped talking about it. It's obviously an important thing, but it failed as a splashy PR item.

It's taken a lot of time for Superchargers to start to dawn on folks on why they're such a big deal. Again, splashy != important and the original poster, the person whose comment I was speaking to, asked why this trip wasn't splashed across bunches of headlines. It's because it's not an attention gathering sort of headline item, but that doesn't diminish the importance.

Let me clarify; you said this milestone was not particularly noteworthy since ICE vehicles had been able to do it for decades already. I pointed out that it WAS a big deal, just as it was the first time ICE's, trains, or any other new mode of transportation achieved it. The first ICE cross-country trip in 1903 was a bit more direct, but it took 2 MONTHS! Why is nobody mentioning that when somebody whines about time spent charging?

 

[ggies07]

While SuperChargers themselves are not all that interesting to the public, and the cost of the Model S is relatively high, the public hasn't grasped the fact that cross country travel is free, if you own a Tesla, or they simply don't care (yet), it's not an "attention grabbing headline" that news organizations would publish "one per centers travel for free in Tesla Model S's long distances"

When the much more affordable Model E arrives in a few years, and free cross country and long distance travel is possible in a $35-40K car, then the "ah hah" moment will occur, game over ICE cars. I'd expect to see resale value plummet for most ICE cars, and rise for anything with the name "Tesla" on it

I completely agree.

 

[ckessel]

Let me clarify; you said this milestone was not particularly noteworthy since ICE vehicles had been able to do it for decades already. I pointed out that it WAS a big deal, just as it was the first time ICE's, trains, or any other new mode of transportation achieved it.

It wasn't the first car across country or even the first electric car across country. It wasn't a new type of transportation, cars have been around a long time. It wasn't even a new type of propulsion as electric cars have been around a long time. I'll stand by my words that this isn't a particularly noteworthy event.

It was a demonstration the superchargers are practical and time competitive for long trips, one of many valuable steps Tesla has taken towards proving that.

I'm a fan, I'm happy to see the SCs expand, and it'll be a useful point in my repertoire to counter anti-EV FUD. When someone talks about an EV as a city car, it's more effective to say "I can get cross country in 3 days with it, which seems a little beyond the city limits", versus trying to tout this as some monumental accomplishment that'll just get you laughed at with statements like "Yea, welcome to 50 years ago".

EVs are fundamentally better to drive. The biggest bang for the buck from something like the cross country trip is as a way to deflect range and charging time as non-factors and focus on how EVs are better. Positioning it as "see, we caught up with the ICE" makes us look like the little kid that wants to sit at the adult table.

 

[stevezzzz]

It wasn't the first car across country or even the first electric car across country. It wasn't a new type of transportation, cars have been around a long time. It wasn't even a new type of propulsion as electric cars have been around a long time. I'll stand by my words that this isn't a particularly noteworthy event.

It was a demonstration the superchargers are practical and time competitive for long trips, one of many valuable steps Tesla has taken towards proving that.

I'm a fan, I'm happy to see the SCs expand, and it'll be a useful point in my repertoire to counter anti-EV FUD. When someone talks about an EV as a city car, it's more effective to say "I can get cross country in 3 days with it, which seems a little beyond the city limits", versus trying to tout this as some monumental accomplishment that'll just get you laughed at with statements like "Yea, welcome to 50 years ago".

EVs are fundamentally better to drive. The biggest bang for the buck from something like the cross country trip is as a way to deflect range and charging time as non-factors and focus on how EVs are better. Positioning it as "see, we caught up with the ICE" makes us look like the little kid that wants to sit at the adult table.

"Fast and free, forever" has a nice ring to it, though, you have to admit. :biggrin:

I don't care if the cost of Supercharging is rolled into the purchase price: it's a much better use of my dollars than what other car companies do, which is to purchase splashy Super Bowl ads in the hopes of reinforcing the brand and selling some more cars. When the time comes that a family of four can drive a Model E to visit the grandparents for free, instead of spending $$ to drive the ICE or $$$ to fly on the airlines, it really will be game over...and much better for the future of the planet, to boot.

 

[ckessel]

"Fast and free, forever" has a nice ring to it, though, you have to admit. :biggrin:

Yea, Tesla's got a great tag line there. Again, part of why I like it so much is because it focuses on how EVs can be better than ICE.

 

[AnOutsider]

...game over ICE cars. I'd expect to see resale value plummet for most ICE cars, and rise for anything with the name "Tesla" on it

Not sure if you're being facetious, but in case you are, I seriously doubt that.

 

[mitch672]

Not sure if you're being facetious, but in case you are, I seriously doubt that.

When you factor in the lifetime cost of gasoline, oil changes, repairs, etc for an ICE, a $35-40K 200 mile EV, is the equivilant of a $25-30K ICE, that price point is where many mid level cars reside (Toyota Camry etc). When the "100th monkey" effect takes place (google it, some same it's not real, I think it is), no one who's intelligent will be buying an ICE car, again.

Math:

12,000 miles per year, let be generous, give the ICE 30MPG:

12000 / 30 = 400 gallons per year
400 * $3.50 per gallon = $1,400 per year in fuel costs
7 years @ $1,400 = $9,800 fuel cost

Not even counting oil changes, and other maint. And that's only calculated for a 7 year ICE life and 12K mikes per year. And yes, the electricity isn't "free", but it's typically 1/4 to 1/3 the cost, and if you use SuperChargers, it is "Free"

 

[AnOutsider]

Firstly, I suspect a large portion of the country buys second hand -- chances are they'd opt for an ICE vs an EV which has a used battery. What with how uncertain everyone is over NEW EV batteries, I can't see there being huge confidence in buying an EV with an 8 year old battery.

Secondly, I honestly don't think many people dive that far into car ownership. Yes, there will always be a subset of any group that DO, but the masses want to know what it will cost them to get into it and monthly costs. I still think much of their "write offs" were silly, Tesla was on the right track with the finance page. If people see that their cost of ownership will be lower with an EV, they may jump for it. However, it's still too new and I doubt many will "do the math" (and the "math" isn't always the bottom line -- there's time and energy to account for).

As for oil changes and maintenance, so far, the Model S has cost more in maintenance than any of our other vehicles (due largely, I suspect, to their uncertainty wrt how the cars would hold up in the wild). They seem on track to change that, but time will tell.

Bottom line: I think we're at least a decade away (probably more like 15 years) from mass EV adoption, let alone the death of the ICE.

 

[mitch672]

Let's just say it's going to happen much, much faster than anyone realizes. The sooner, the better for everyone's health as well as the environment.

P.S. I am talking about the death of new ICE sales, used will take a lot longer, but if new ones are not being purchased, guess what? There won't be many on the used market in 8 years. People buying new will often look at the lifetime ownership costs.

 

[chickensevil]

Let's just say it's going to happen much, much faster than anyone realizes. The sooner, the better for everyone's health as well as the environment.

P.S. I am talking about the death of new ICE sales, used will take a lot longer, but if new ones are not being purchased, guess what? There won't be many on the used market in 8 years. People buying new will often look at the lifetime ownership costs.

This is true. Either you tend to be in the group that buys a new car and drives it forever, or buy a new car and cycle it out in 5 years (give or take), so you tend to take into account these things like cost of ownership (even if you don't realize that is what you are doing... I know I didn't when I bought my first new car, heck, I didn't even know such a thing existed... but it was exactly what I was doing.)

How much is fuel going to cost?
How much is the maintenance going to run me?
How much can I expect to sell the car for later (so I can buy the next new thing)?
How much is insurance?

Assuming you can float the monthly payments, beyond that, these become your questions. One of the reasons to buy new is the hypothetical lower maintenance vs a used car. I think full EV's will destroy the used market since you can reasonably get away with no maintenance ever on the car and it will still go a very long time. New tires, and that's it. And I mean... NO MAINTENANCE. You will ditch the car down the road because you don't want to stick a new battery in it. But I suspect that we might even see "real" second hand markets spawn up advertising "new battery". So then you will drive it until you get sick of it.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This is true. Either you tend to be in the group that buys a new car and drives it forever, or buy a new car and cycle it out in 5 years (give or take), so you tend to take into account these things like cost of ownership (even if you don't realize that is what you are doing... I know I didn't when I bought my first new car, heck, I didn't even know such a thing existed... but it was exactly what I was doing.)

How much is fuel going to cost?
How much is the maintenance going to run me?
How much can I expect to sell the car for later (so I can buy the next new thing)?
How much is insurance?

Assuming you can float the monthly payments, beyond that, these become your questions. One of the reasons to buy new is the hypothetical lower maintenance vs a used car. I think full EV's will destroy the used market since you can reasonably get away with no maintenance ever on the car and it will still go a very long time. New tires, and that's it. And I mean... NO MAINTENANCE. You will ditch the car down the road because you don't want to stick a new battery in it. But I suspect that we might even see "real" second hand markets spawn up advertising "new battery". So then you will drive it until you get sick of it.

,
Everything outside of the drivetrain, apart from brakes will be the same so you will have maintenance. But you will eliminate a lot of scheduled maintenance and have a simplified drivetrain that will operate at lower temperature. But, modern xars generally have few engine problems. It's everything else that ages.

 

[chickensevil]

,
Everything outside of the drivetrain, apart from brakes will be the same so you will have maintenance. But you will eliminate a lot of scheduled maintenance and have a simplified drivetrain that will operate at lower temperature. But, modern xars generally have few engine problems. It's everything else that ages.

Hondas are eternally known for the only maintenance being tires breaks and oil... As far as the major costly kinds. So I was equating it to that. Outside of breaks and tires what really do you have maintenance on with a tesla? (Keeping in mind breaks will easily last 150k unless you are just retarded). I mean anything else you would probably fix when it broke on you... Which could be a long time.

 

[domenick]

The cross-country trip had all the makings of a great story, save one: the media.
Did Tesla contact news outlets prior to the beginning of the trip to give them a heads up? Did it consider having one of the teams comprised of journalists?

I think a lot of this goes to Tesla's relationships (or lack thereof) with the media. I don't want to rehash things I've said about it in other threads, but it's crazy that a company with great future vision with regards to its product, can be so backwards with its media dealings.

Finally, the Euro townhalls got coverage on at least one website. Elon Musk talks Tesla Model S updates, AWD version, Model X deliveries

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Hondas are eternally known for the only maintenance being tires breaks and oil... As far as the major costly kinds. So I was equating it to that. Outside of breaks and tires what really do you have maintenance on with a tesla? (Keeping in mind breaks will easily last 150k unless you are just retarded). I mean anything else you would probably fix when it broke on you... Which could be a long time.

I don't know what the road conditions and climate is where you are, but at least here in Estonia the main thing that will require repairs is the whole suspension assembly with various components. The rough roads with loads of holes and the -30 .. +30 temperature differential over the year as well as salt and other crap will kill the suspensions at some point and those aren't exactly cheap to replace. However as I heard from the ranger that they use VW components for this, the local repair shop guys said that the Audi suspensions usually last about 120k km so it'll happen after your warranty runs out. If I drive 20k a year approximately and swap the car out at 5 years I'm unlikely to have any real maintenance needs, but the person who buys the car will have to factor in the repairs hence the aftermarket value will be somewhat affected. Then again, all of the other components of a performance car are to Teslas benefit. I've driven through a number of clutch assemblies with loads of other things breaking as well including engine chain that got too loose and needed replacing (not the generator belt, but the actual chain in the engine) and if you go to 10+ years you have all the fuel and other liquid lines in the ICE that start to deteriorate, especially with harsher climates and salts. My neighbors Audi A6 just lit up while he was driving last week, luckily he got out and the car somehow flamed out on its own, but the repair costs will probably be staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some fuel line or oil or what not that leaked and the car if I understand right isn't even 5 years old.

 

[meloccom]

If it makes you feel better, it was covered in Australa.
How-to-drive-across-america-for-free

 

[chickensevil]

I don't know what the road conditions and climate is where you are, but at least here in Estonia the main thing that will require repairs is the whole suspension assembly with various components. The rough roads with loads of holes and the -30 .. +30 temperature differential over the year as well as salt and other crap will kill the suspensions at some point and those aren't exactly cheap to replace. However as I heard from the ranger that they use VW components for this, the local repair shop guys said that the Audi suspensions usually last about 120k km so it'll happen after your warranty runs out. If I drive 20k a year approximately and swap the car out at 5 years I'm unlikely to have any real maintenance needs, but the person who buys the car will have to factor in the repairs hence the aftermarket value will be somewhat affected. Then again, all of the other components of a performance car are to Teslas benefit. I've driven through a number of clutch assemblies with loads of other things breaking as well including engine chain that got too loose and needed replacing (not the generator belt, but the actual chain in the engine) and if you go to 10+ years you have all the fuel and other liquid lines in the ICE that start to deteriorate, especially with harsher climates and salts. My neighbors Audi A6 just lit up while he was driving last week, luckily he got out and the car somehow flamed out on its own, but the repair costs will probably be staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some fuel line or oil or what not that leaked and the car if I understand right isn't even 5 years old.

Sorry, then, yeah. That sentiment toward Honda's must be a US thing then. Generally speaking our roads are pretty well taken care of (depending...) unless you live on some backwater road in the middle of nowhere then you might have issues with the roads. Never heard of someone having to get their suspension fixed. The temps (I am assuming you are saying those in C?) I would say normally in the areas I have lived in the absolute coldest it gets is down to -15C normally floating around 0C in the winter. In the summer you are looking at 30C. So the lower extreme is less so.

I know people that have driven cars well into the +250k distance, with only minor repairs. Radiator flush, transmission flush, a new belt or two... but nothing major, and certainly not following the "maintenance schedule", which they really try to screw you over on that one here in the US (or so I have been told... other countries magically get a different, and less costly "maintenance schedule"... go figure). Other cars, not so much... But normally the things I have seen fixed would be tied into systems that have all been removed and simplified in the Tesla.

What exactly is there to maintain? Breaks (and fluid/lines), Suspension, tires/wheels, electronics, Steering, the peddles?

Like as far as the rest goes, it seems like a different system from normal. A/C, Heat, the motor, one gear, the single bar going to the wheels, seems about it. No transmission fluid/transmission, no belts, no radiator (and associated parts), no complex motor, no major gearbox, none of the exhaust systems. I mean they cut out a lot of the things that could and do generally go wrong and break over time. Time will tell on their build quality of their components, but they seem simple enough.