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Local Supercharging: Proper use for Superchargers or Waste of a Scarce Resource

How should Superchargers be used?

  • Superchargers have Tesla plugs, so all Tesla owners should have equal access to them.

    Votes: 38 55.1%
  • There should be a graduated system for SC use, incentivizing local Tesla owners to charge elsewhere.

    Votes: 19 27.5%
  • If you charge at SCs when you could charge at home, you're a terrible person and I hate you.

    Votes: 21 30.4%
  • I paid good money for "free" Supercharging, so I'll use it when I want. Sharing is for Commies.

    Votes: 6 8.7%
  • I dislike Superchargers because of the lack of organized lines, there.

    Votes: 5 7.2%

  • Total voters
    69
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I mostly supercharge because my free referral miles run out after 6 months and I'll otherwise never hit it. It's free. I don't travel that often and the SC is near my home.

That's really my only reason - I'm not really into throwing away free money. I'm actually planning trips just to utilize it more.
 
Since Day 1, Tesla has welcomed those without home or office charging to use SCs.

Period.

This is absolutely false. Elon Musk at the 2015 annual meeting:

“There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local supercharging,” he said at the time. “We’ll sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do this occasionally, but it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

Anyway, I know Tesla is now encouraging people to use superchargers as their primary charging but it most certainly was not that way from day 1.

Ya, they started adding the Urban SCs in Sept. 2017 only. Clear from the wording here that the intent of the non-urban SCs is for long-distance travel, not for people who live close to it ...

Supercharging Cities
“It is extremely important for our customers to be able to easily charge their cars. The most convenient way to charge is to plug in overnight at home, and for most people, this is all that is needed. However, for customers who use their car for long distance travel, there is a growing network of Superchargers located along highways on popular driving routes. We have also installed thousands of Destination Charging connectors at hotels, resorts and restaurants that replicate the home charging experience when you’re away from home. Now, as part of our commitment to make Tesla ownership easy for everyone, including those without immediate access to home or workplace charging, we are expanding our Supercharger network into city centers, starting with downtown Chicago and Boston.
[...] To increase efficiency and support a high volume of cars, these Superchargers have a new architecture that delivers a rapid 72 kilowatts of dedicated power to each car.“​
 
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Maybe I'm just in the mood to scrap, this weekend... Game on!
....
I am sorry but I put a Disagree on your posting...

I understand your possible frustration when travelling, I will certainly experience similar experience,
however whoever decided to put his/her hard own money
to buy a Tesla should have the same right to access a Supercharger.

The point is that we cannot create a kind of gentrification depending if you can or cannot charge at home or at work.

Local people who use SC mostly cannot charge at home or work, so I don't think they should be penalised.

Be able to charge at home, or at work, is so convenient that's is almost priceless.
So I don't think that there are too many people who can charge at home or work, would prefer using local SC.

Before getting a plug at home I used L2 chargers, but there are so few, that they are always occupied during the day,
since they are generally located near a supermarket.

I had to use an L2 charger twice a week but it was at night and I had to charge my car all the night.
So I had to walk back home late at night, which is not too secure, and come back earlier in the morning.​

So we need to provide a solution for people who cannot charger at home, mostly because they park in the street,
or don't own their own home and don't want to pay the cost of installing a plug, or the landlord is not interested or against it....

If there are only limited possibility for charging in cities for people who cannot charge at home or at work,
the sale of EV will plateau and those people will continue buying fossil cars.

Which is something even more critical because EV provide a good way to reduce pollution in cities
but cities are also the worse places for finding a place for charging a car.
I believe that the (72 KW) Urban Charger are a good compromise for those who cannot charge at home.
Those people would regularly go shopping in a mole and spend a couple of hours there shopping or eating.

As an example, the Daly City Supercharger near San Francisco, CA, provides 40 Urban Chargers.
This Supercharger location is build on the roof of a local shopping center parking lot.

I wonder what would be the difference of price with the 120 kW Superchargers,
but I assume that there would have been may be only half number of the fastest Superchargers.​

Going back to your posting, I would certainly agree however that there should be
a recommended 80% charge limitation when a Supercharger is crowded,
especially because charging get slower and slower.

However this would be difficult to enforced because some users might needed depending of their battery size,
their final destination who might not provide any charging,
and also depending of their load, like if they have a trailer for example.​
 
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There are 3 supercharger locations in my area, but I'd have to drive 15 or 20 miles in one direction or another to get to them. So laziness wins out.

I have both a 14-50 and a 6-20 all set up at my house, so charging at home has never been a problem.

My only real annoyance is that I can't charge at work, even from a 5-20 outlet, because my head-up-his-ass-for-not-seeing-things-my-way manager said no without even thinking about the issue, despite the fact that 2 computer servers would pull more power than I can get out of a 5-20, and this place uses a LOT of power. We've got 8 diesel generators (big ones, V-12's and V-16s) around the building for power backup, but me pulling 120 volts at 16 amps from a 5-20? Oh no, we've got to watch our expenses.

Next time I visit L.A. later this year, I'm going to have to drive to one of these big SC stations and see the long lines of Teslas that I read about here. Even on the rare occasion that I go to a local SC they are never more then 5 stalls out of 8 occupied.
 
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There are 3 supercharger locations in my area, but I'd have to drive 15 or 20 miles in one direction or another to get to them. So laziness wins out.

I have both a 14-50 and a 6-20 all set up at my house, so charging at home has never been a problem.

My only real annoyance is that I can't charge at work, even from a 5-20 outlet, because my head-up-his-ass-for-not-seeing-things-my-way manager said no without even thinking about the issue, despite the fact that 2 computer servers would pull more power than I can get out of a 5-20, and this place uses a LOT of power. We've got 8 diesel generators (big ones, V-12's and V-16s) around the building for power backup, but me pulling 120 volts at 16 amps from a 5-20? Oh no, we've got to watch our expenses.

Next time I visit L.A. later this year, I'm going to have to drive to one of these big SC stations and see the long lines of Teslas that I read about here. Even on the rare occasion that I go to a local SC they are never more then 5 stalls out of 8 occupied.

Unless where you work has a bunch of people with EVs, your boss allowing you to charge would likely bring about the other employees asking some variation of "where is my free gas?". Thats the issue with workplace charging that has to be overcome. Installing a row of chargers can help, because then someone could just buy an EV and take advantage of it (the management can say "over there" to answer the above "where is my free gas" question while pointing to a row of EV charging stations available).

If its just "can I plug in", to some exterior outlet, or can we install one station, then, the perception of that would be horrible for other employees (that is, unless you are the boss and get to make the decision).

You should be pushing for a row of charging stations, not a single one.. otherwise not much for your boss to consider to see it your way, as you put it.
 
Unless where you work has a bunch of people with EVs, your boss allowing you to charge would likely bring about the other employees asking some variation of "where is my free gas?". Thats the issue with workplace charging that has to be overcome. Installing a row of chargers can help, because then someone could just buy an EV and take advantage of it (the management can say "over there" to answer the above "where is my free gas" question while pointing to a row of EV charging stations available).

If its just "can I plug in", to some exterior outlet, or can we install one station, then, the perception of that would be horrible for other employees (that is, unless you are the boss and get to make the decision).

You should be pushing for a row of charging stations, not a single one.. otherwise not much for your boss to consider to see it your way, as you put it.

Yeah, I figured the "where's my free gas" thing was an issue. At this place, I don't think I've ever seen more than 15 cars here at once even on a busy day, and I have the only EV. And it's all open parking lots, so no way to hide it off in a corner. I have looked. The manager is a fairly nice guy, but he doesn't know much about EVs and I'm sure he doesn't want others asking "what about me?".
 
Yeah, I figured the "where's my free gas" thing was an issue. At this place, I don't think I've ever seen more than 15 cars here at once even on a busy day, and I have the only EV. And it's all open parking lots, so no way to hide it off in a corner. I have looked. The manager is a fairly nice guy, but he doesn't know much about EVs and I'm sure he doesn't want others asking "what about me?".
Did you offer to pay for the electricity? If you don't need it to get home, it's not clear to me why he should let plug in (or why you would ask). It's your car, why shouldn't you pay for your own charging?
 
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With the profound increase in number of Teslas being sold, the resource will be overtaxed to the point of being unusable, soon.
Yet another thread on the impending collapse of the supercharger network due to overcrowding. Take a breath, man, It will be ok. Really.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist. 6 years and so far, so good.
 
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Did you offer to pay for the electricity? If you don't need it to get home, it's not clear to me why he should let plug in (or why you would ask). It's your car, why shouldn't you pay for your own charging?

I'm hoping the manager comes in one day and asks me to fix his personal laptop which has a problem or broken part. Then we can play "make a deal". I can plug in in exchange for a free computer repair job. Or when performance review time comes, I can offer to waive what I'm sure will be a miniscule raise in exchange for plugging in.
 
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There are 3 supercharger locations in my area, but I'd have to drive 15 or 20 miles in one direction or another to get to them. So laziness wins out.

I have both a 14-50 and a 6-20 all set up at my house, so charging at home has never been a problem.

My only real annoyance is that I can't charge at work, even from a 5-20 outlet, because my head-up-his-ass-for-not-seeing-things-my-way manager said no without even thinking about the issue, despite the fact that 2 computer servers would pull more power than I can get out of a 5-20, and this place uses a LOT of power. We've got 8 diesel generators (big ones, V-12's and V-16s) around the building for power backup, but me pulling 120 volts at 16 amps from a 5-20? Oh no, we've got to watch our expenses.

Next time I visit L.A. later this year, I'm going to have to drive to one of these big SC stations and see the long lines of Teslas that I read about here. Even on the rare occasion that I go to a local SC they are never more then 5 stalls out of 8 occupied.

If you do make it to Calif on vacation, try to route your trip along I-5 to Kettleman City on your way to Yosemite or east to the ocean. The Kettleman City supercharger location is amazing. You'll wish all locations were like this. And then plan to stop at the Harris Ranch Supercharger location north of Kettleman for a great steak meal (if your not vegetarian). It's a palm tree Tesla oasis in the middle of seemingly no where.

Sorry your workplace isn't accomodating. Maybe the way around having an outlet to charge at while at work is to have some sort of reimbursement for kWs used (show screen shot each time of the charging completed screen?). Tesla I think is still supplying HPWCs to companies if the company doesn't go the outlet route. My husband's company is very good about supporting EVs with charging. They have ChargePoint chargers installed all over where he uses a card to activate his session. Maybe that's another approach for your place. See if they would put in a ChargePoint system that bills you directly. Having the ability to add range away from home while at work is a really great convenience for the employee and for some who work a distance from work a huge time saver if they need range to run errands before driving home. Good luck on your work front.
 
I rarely use superchargers. But once a year I take a road trip and in the last 2 years I haven't experienced any wait times and in general I am usually the only individual at the stations.

This year though... Allot different. I didnt fully charge just because I never ever see anyone at the superchargers.

Distance for my yearly trip. 400 Kms. My range at 100% 520 kms roughly. I generally only charge to 80% state of charge. But this time I drove to my first location and it was full. Only 150kms from home All 12 slots completely full with model 3s and a line of model 3s waiting. The next location was 280 kms from home. So I continued as it looked like it was pretty much empty. By the time I got to my second location it was also 100% full... Again all Model 3s. I waited and topped up for my commute.


I will for now on 100% charge prior to starting any road trip. Lesson learned as others clearly do not have the range and i feel selfish for having to clog up the stations.
 
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Yet another thread on the impending collapse of the supercharger network due to overcrowding. Take a breath, man, It will be ok. Really.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist. 6 years and so far, so good.
Ahh. Things are the same now as they were six years ago. Check.

How are the northern CA Superchargers holding up, these days? Any lines? Overcrowding?

My town, Houston, fourth largest city in America, about 8 million people, has 4 Superchargers with a total of 30 stalls. If each charging evolution takes 30 minutes, then there are 720 Supercharging opportunities from 7am to7pm, daily. I wonder how long that infrastructure will hold up.
 
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Ahh. Things are the same now as they were six years ago. Check.
Not at all!!
There are MANY more supercharging locations.
Average number of stalls per supercharger location has increased.
Superchargers are now 150kW instead of 120kW, and V3 on the way.
Newer cars charge MUCH faster - taper begins later in the charge cycle.

What has not changed is there is adequate capacity. Yes, there will always be a few superchargers that are busy, and it is always possible for any supercharger to have a line. I often see lines at gas stations - does not mean the world is about to end.

My town, Houston, fourth largest city in America, about 8 million people, has 4 Superchargers with a total of 30 stalls.
Why do you care about Houston superchargers if you live there and charge at home? With 4 in the Houston area seems like there is plenty of capacity for people traveling through Houston. Are they crowded?

I wonder how long that infrastructure will hold up.
Indefinitely. They are building another location in Webster now which will increase capacity by 33%. They have two locations targeted for 2019 in downtown Houston, and one in Katy. Seems Houston is surrounded by superchargers convenient for anyone traveling through.
 
There are 3 supercharger locations in my area, but I'd have to drive 15 or 20 miles in one direction or another to get to them. So laziness wins out.

I have both a 14-50 and a 6-20 all set up at my house, so charging at home has never been a problem.

My only real annoyance is that I can't charge at work, even from a 5-20 outlet, because my head-up-his-ass-for-not-seeing-things-my-way manager said no without even thinking about the issue, despite the fact that 2 computer servers would pull more power than I can get out of a 5-20, and this place uses a LOT of power. We've got 8 diesel generators (big ones, V-12's and V-16s) around the building for power backup, but me pulling 120 volts at 16 amps from a 5-20? Oh no, we've got to watch our expenses.

Next time I visit L.A. later this year, I'm going to have to drive to one of these big SC stations and see the long lines of Teslas that I read about here. Even on the rare occasion that I go to a local SC they are never more then 5 stalls out of 8 occupied.

Forgot to mention in my previous post in reply to you about vacationing in Calif. that if you have the time and the interest try to line up your time out here with a Factory Tour. You need to schedule in advance so don't wait until the last minute to set up. We went on tour last year (1 per year) and found it fascinating. The Bay Area is a traffic nightmare around morning commute times so keep that in mind if you schedule a tour. Probably no worse than LA but an eye opener if you haven't been driving in either LA or SF Bay.
 
Seems Houston is surrounded by superchargers convenient for anyone traveling through.

My point, exactly: traveling through.

Here in Houston, I have never, once, seen a line for a gas station. It's not a paradigm I'm willing to adapt, even for occasional road-trip use. There's already a 10-15% time hit for road trips, and I wouldn't want it longer.
 
My point, exactly: traveling through.

Here in Houston, I have never, once, seen a line for a gas station. It's not a paradigm I'm willing to adapt, even for occasional road-trip use. There's already a 10-15% time hit for road trips, and I wouldn't want it longer.
So you agree the supercharger network is just fine - not in imminent peril of complete collapse?

Adding two supercharger locations in downtown Houston will enable local charging too.

Never fear, my friend, all is good in supercharger land.
 
Haven't had a problem, so far, while traveling and there are no crowding issues at all locally. But I think I have a solution none-the-less.

Simple software fix: designate a % of chargers where free-for-life vehicles can charge. Remainder won't respond to free-for-life VINs. For example, If there are 12 stalls, confine free-for-life supercharging to six of them. (Could modify if the station is not full.)

That way, free-for-life keeps their benefit while us mortals don't roll up to a station to find an MX in every stall.
 
Maybe they could reserve half the stalls at superchargers exclusively for people who have pre-paid for supercharging with their cars so they can be assured of receiving what they already paid for? Perhaps let others also use those stalls and pay a higher rate?

Personally, I think Tesla has it under control and it is working just fine. No need to fix what ain't broke.
 
Good points.

I'll rebut by saying that while Tesla may have always welcomed everyone at the Supercharger trough, their deliveries are now an order of magnitude more than when they began, and the proportion of cars produced greatly outpaces Supercharging bays installed. Business models are not static. "Variables don't; constants aren't..."

All is yet well. I live at ground zero for ownership density relative to SCs and the only time I've had to wait for a charge in the last 2 years locally has been when multiple pedestals are faulty.

This is absolutely false. Elon Musk at the 2015 annual meeting:

“There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local supercharging,” he said at the time. “We’ll sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do this occasionally, but it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

Anyway, I know Tesla is now encouraging people to use superchargers as their primary charging but it most certainly was not that way from day 1.

Fortunately, you're wrong. Day 1 was not at the 2015 annual meeting. When I purchased my first S in 2014, I was told specifically and repeatedly that a) those without home/work charging are welcome to use the SC network ad libitum, and b) that Tesla would build more to stay ahead of demand. At that time there was exactly 1 SC in LA County. Within 2 months there were 3 and now I've lost count. There have been abject misses, certainly - the OC and SD County had exactly 1 SC each for FAR too long, but in general, and I say this having been through 48 states and provinces, even today, 97% of the network is just fine - including during holiday weekends.

Years later, urban chargers were introduced in part for infill and in part due to densely populated areas having more condo/apt dwellers than homeowners. In time, all multi-family dwellings will be required to have EV charging, but that'll take a generation.

The biggest problem has not been "local charging" per se - it has been ICEing by our own, followed by livery - livery's been dealt with, and idle fees were instantiated. In my opinion, the idle fees are not high enough, but that's another matter. Fastest way to turn an 8-stall SC into a 2-stall SC is to ICE a few and to have some faulty pedestals. Not ICEing by ICEs, but ICEing by our own. ICEing is surprisingly rare already - until people respect green striping and signage as they do blue and red striping and signage, the problem will still exist, of course.

Ya, they started adding the Urban SCs in Sept. 2017 only. Clear from the wording here that the intent of the non-urban SCs is for long-distance travel, not for people who live close to it ...

Supercharging Cities
“It is extremely important for our customers to be able to easily charge their cars. The most convenient way to charge is to plug in overnight at home, and for most people, this is all that is needed. However, for customers who use their car for long distance travel, there is a growing network of Superchargers located along highways on popular driving routes. We have also installed thousands of Destination Charging connectors at hotels, resorts and restaurants that replicate the home charging experience when you’re away from home. Now, as part of our commitment to make Tesla ownership easy for everyone, including those without immediate access to home or workplace charging, we are expanding our Supercharger network into city centers, starting with downtown Chicago and Boston.
[...] To increase efficiency and support a high volume of cars, these Superchargers have a new architecture that delivers a rapid 72 kilowatts of dedicated power to each car.“​

Except you bolded the part that clearly includes those who can't charge at home or work.

My point, exactly: traveling through.

Here in Houston, I have never, once, seen a line for a gas station. It's not a paradigm I'm willing to adapt, even for occasional road-trip use. There's already a 10-15% time hit for road trips, and I wouldn't want it longer.

Get out more. There are lines at gas stations every day - see ARCO, and Costco. BT (before I owned a Tesla), I used to turn left at an intersection into a Costco after work and wait 20 minutes for my 4% discount at the pump (yeah, I know). Now, I turn right at the same intersection, plug in, and either get a salad at the host property or use wifi to return emails or otherwise make use of the time.

On the road, the ONLY significant delays I've encountered have been due to site or pedestal outages - and those are annoying, but rare. Now, part of this is because just as no sane person would get gas at a Costco on a Friday or Sunday afternoon in SoCal, I rarely put myself in a position to have to rely upon a chokepoint SC during a busy holiday season - or a solar eclipse (Corning, CA or Pocatello, ID). But again, once out of coastal California, this is a non-issue anyway.

In the end, it is up to Tesla to manage demand at the SCs. As cars achieve 400-mile range and faster charging, and as sites continue to proliferate, all will be well. Now, for other EVs, it's still a serious clusterfook - but I digress.

Check out supercharge.info to understand how much of a competitive advantage Tesla has in their SC network. It is *the* differentiator above and beyond driver assist features - because I assure you - the competition will have decent enough Level 2 driver assist features to get people to buy their Taycans and e-trons and e-Golfs and so forth.

But those cars will go literally nowhere outside of town until there's a sustainable charging network that will scale. And 4 pedestals at a Walmart ain't gonna cut it for interstate travel.
 
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Honestly, I think the current fees are sufficient to discourage frivolous Supercharging. I don't think you need graduated pricing levels. Having some sort of electronic queuing is interesting, however.

In the end, the only thing that solves overcrowding is more plugs.
I have done a few road trips and most locations are empty or close to it most of the time. One place that I did see that was full when I arrived, was Issaquah, WA. In talking with some other people that were there it seems that this location is often full with people waiting for a turn.

One thing that I think would help solve this problem, would be to increase the idle fees. There were several cars that were there when I arrived (no one in the car) and those cars were still there when I was leaving. This was after I waited about 30 minutes and then charged for another 30 minutes.