ra-san
Member
Are either or both of these still completely applicable to the P85D? Any new gotchas to consider?
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[lolachampcar] Performance Upgrade Efforts
- Thread starter lolachampcar
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I noted that Tesla is now using a ball style joint (yea!!) on the outboard end of the upper link. The joint has a steel outer sleeve and thus the bore in the link is smaller for a tighter press fit. The folks at OpenEVSE may need to change the outer bore on their links (and subsequently make left and right link part numbers) to accommodate the new out board joint. Knowing Tesla, they have likely implemented this change on all product and not just the PD but I have no proof of that.
ra-san
Member
Right, now I remember you saying that up thread at this post. Thanks for reminding. So you still got your original design back on. Aside from install difficulty the mod still looks as solid as with the old joint?
I'm watching the tires closely and currently planning an alignment check around 1K mile to verify how it came from the factory as well as strongly push to get the alignment set to the minimum toe and camber settings possible while still being in their spec. After seeing how that goes, the new links will be my next step, if I feel it's necessary.
Only ever got 1500 or so miles out of my AO48s on my roadster, but not going to be acceptable to me to only get a few K on the S. Shooting for 10K plus anyway, 30+ even better, though can't see that happening on 21s with the original PS2s. If i can't get that out of the 21s, will be looking at 20s too, as you have. Just want to get a good baseline with the stock tires, wheels, and tweaked but stock alignment to start with.
dennis
Model S Plaid
I had 9K miles on the rear 21s on my P+ when they had to be replaced. I have 14K on the fronts and there is still tread left. I drive aggressively (408 wh/mi lifetime average) so I am not dissatisfied with the tire wear on the PS2's.
ra-san
Wear summer tire to summer tire will have more to do with negative camber and toe then 20 or 21s I think.
Wear summer tire to summer tire will have more to do with negative camber and toe then 20 or 21s I think.
artsci
Sponsor
ra-san
Member
Forgot to ask earlier - is it confirmed that the air suspension on the P85D will still, due to it's design, increase the camber somewhat as it lowers? I assume that part hasn't changed, but wanted to be sure.
Yes, the design is the same and there is "camber gain" built into the design. That is, negative camber will increase as the car lowers. The primary caveat and reason why wear has improved across the air fleet is that Tesla's current "Low" is the original production's "Standard" height. You can not achieve the original production "Low" without mucking with the car so the car does not see the same negative camber values in operation.
artsci,
You must be getting some fantastic wear numbers from your tires as those are some very friendly alignment settings.
artsci,
You must be getting some fantastic wear numbers from your tires as those are some very friendly alignment settings.
arijaycomet
Member
Bill- did you have a list of your alignment specs "as suggested" (or did you just align to factory specs from Tesla?)
I'm looking for the best of all worlds... with non-staggered wheels, decent tire wear, modest handling too...
No pictures although the way Tesla moved the damper around the front drive shaft was kinda neat.
WRT alignment specs, I took the negative camber that resulted from the chosen ride height with the longer upper links on the rear and put that on the front. If memory serves me, I think it was something like 1.3 degrees of negative camber all the way around. I think that was close to the adjustment range on the front suspension (as little negative camber as the adjusters would allow up front). I used the stock caster numbers for the front (as castor changes when you adjust camber).
Toe was set 0.10 to 0.15 degrees total front and rear with the front being toe out and the rear being toe in.
Hope that helps.
WRT alignment specs, I took the negative camber that resulted from the chosen ride height with the longer upper links on the rear and put that on the front. If memory serves me, I think it was something like 1.3 degrees of negative camber all the way around. I think that was close to the adjustment range on the front suspension (as little negative camber as the adjusters would allow up front). I used the stock caster numbers for the front (as castor changes when you adjust camber).
Toe was set 0.10 to 0.15 degrees total front and rear with the front being toe out and the rear being toe in.
Hope that helps.
artsci
Sponsor
Thanks to you I'm off to a very good start. Let's see how this holds up through the summer and when I change back to the 21" wheels.
I had a chance to examine different rear toe values and straight line stability with my previous P+. I learned that near zero toe in on the rear of MS (0.1 - 0.15 degrees total toe in) was very good for range but allowed the car to follow irregularities in the road like rain grooves cut in concrete paving on the interstate. Conversely, higher toe in values (like 0.45+ total toe in) made the car track straight as an arrow but significantly impacted range.
Fast forward to my new PD and things have changed. I am currently running 0.10 degrees of total toe in on the rear and the car tracks straight as an arrow. The obvious conclusion is that the front wheel drive torque is acting to "pull" the car on the interstate thus dramatically improving stability.
Thank you Tesla. I now get the best of both worlds. Let's see if the front motor is the motor of choice with torque sleep so that we can keep the straight line highway stability.
Fast forward to my new PD and things have changed. I am currently running 0.10 degrees of total toe in on the rear and the car tracks straight as an arrow. The obvious conclusion is that the front wheel drive torque is acting to "pull" the car on the interstate thus dramatically improving stability.
Thank you Tesla. I now get the best of both worlds. Let's see if the front motor is the motor of choice with torque sleep so that we can keep the straight line highway stability.
arijaycomet
Member
Great info, Bill. I'd be curious to see how comparable cars size-wise spec out alignment. For example I had a 2013 Audi S6 4.0T that would have been similar in overall size, weight, and tire diameter (circumference) too. I'd be curious to match that car's alignment details up to the Tesla. It is also such that us, as EV drivers, become hyper-aware of our efficient dynamics when driving obviously.
Thank you for the post/feedback tho... that is interesting. I'm going to consult with my SC on Saturday for my alignment, and see what they can do and what they might suggest for toe. I know one of the techs, who used to work for the local Mercedes-Benz dealer for 10+ years, and used to have a weekend race car... so he/I can bang our heads together for alignment details hehe!
Thank you for the post/feedback tho... that is interesting. I'm going to consult with my SC on Saturday for my alignment, and see what they can do and what they might suggest for toe. I know one of the techs, who used to work for the local Mercedes-Benz dealer for 10+ years, and used to have a weekend race car... so he/I can bang our heads together for alignment details hehe!
Champ, I am constantly amazed and grateful for the amount of knowledge you share with us!
Wish Tesla would come out with adjustable upper rear control arms...I'd feel a whole lot better about the mod if I could buy the part from them.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
Question.. I believe I've read that the swaybars on the 85+ cars are thicker / stronger then the other cars is this true vs a p90d and could you use these swaybars on a p90d? looking to improve handling at the track / autocross beyond the tires and wheels I've got on order, thanks for the help!!
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