Long commute question, SR+ vs LR vs S 90D

[Viking79]

My commute might grow a lot, like from 5 miles to 110 miles one way. I will of course work with my office to work from home some days, etc, but I am looking for an excuse to go from my i3 REx to a Tesla.

Thoughts on SR+? I am looking at 110 miles averaging about 65 mph (usual route) or interstate route at 130 miles at 75 mph. The issue is it gets very cold here (expect a few weeks with highs around 0F). I will be able to charge at work, and the longer route has superchargers available.

Is the Model 3 SR+ going to be enough to easily make 110 miles at 0 F and say 200,000 miles at 65 or 70 mph? With snow tires? I suspect range with margin might be 200 miles, -20% for aging, -30% for cold -10% for tires, it could be around 100 mile range. Are my numbers unrealistic? Again, I could take the longer route with the superchargers, but the speed will be higher that way and chargers are fairly close to either endpoint.

Trying to decide if I should get AWD instead of SR+ or even a used S 90D, however, I like the idea for FSD available on Model 3. How good is the old AP? For a long commute like this I feel it could be very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[joebruin77]

My commute might grow a lot, like from 5 miles to 110 miles one way. I will of course work with my office to work from home some days, etc, but I am looking for an excuse to go from my i3 REx to a Tesla.

Thoughts on SR+? I am looking at 110 miles averaging about 65 mph (usual route) or interstate route at 130 miles at 75 mph. The issue is it gets very cold here (expect a few weeks with highs around 0F). I will be able to charge at work, and the longer route has superchargers available.

Is the Model 3 SR+ going to be enough to easily make 110 miles at 0 F and say 200,000 miles at 65 or 70 mph? With snow tires? I suspect range with margin might be 200 miles, -20% for aging, -30% for cold -10% for tires, it could be around 100 mile range. Are my numbers unrealistic? Again, I could take the longer route with the superchargers, but the speed will be higher that way and chargers are fairly close to either endpoint.

Trying to decide if I should get AWD instead of SR+ or even a used S 90D, however, I like the idea for FSD available on Model 3. How good is the old AP? For a long commute like this I feel it could be very helpful.

Thanks!

My thought would be to go to this website:

A Better Routeplanner

and type in the specifics for your route. You can then adjust the outside temperature to see how the temp would effect your battery range.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rothgarr]

On paper the SR+ would suffice, but from experience I would not suggest that if your commute will be 220 miles total each day. Remember that in Winter the range goes down, you'll have the heat on, etc.

I would say AWD (310 miles) at a minimum.

You'll also want a 220v 60 amp charger at your home to charge up quickly overnight, otherwise your battery would never charge fast enough overnight for your next commute the next day.

 

[ucmndd]

Might be fine if you can count on reliable L2 charging at work every single day.

But really, the SR+ is not the right tool for this job. You want a longer range vehicle.

 

[jerry33]

You won't regret getting the LR. Range is very similar to computer memory--no such thing as too much.

 

[ucmndd]

You'll also want a 220v 60 amp charger at your home to charge up quickly overnight, otherwise your battery would never charge fast enough overnight for your next commute the next day.

Absolutely worst case, 9 hours at 8kw on the included 32A UMC will fill up a LR battery from 0-100%.

 

[insaneoctane]

You will likely feel range anxiety with SR+.... Things like temperature and wind and the NEED to charge at work guarantee this. LR will help reduce this.

 

[trm2]

Buying a used S90D (from Tesla) will give you the same 4 year 50k bumper-to-bumper warranty that a new Model 3 has, but you will be tearing through mileage, so the 8 year/unlimited battery and powertrain warranty on the S will be better than the 8 year/100k (SR+) or 8 year/120k (LR) on the 3.

 

[bd7349]

I'll probably be able to answer any of your questions because as it turns out, my commute is 120 miles one way! I opted for the LR AWD and I'd definitely suggest you do the same. In the winter my usable range is closer to 220-240 miles when it's below zero out and the heat blasting. If you had an SR+ that'd probably be closer to 150-160 miles, so that wouldn't cut it and having to stop everyday midway through your commute would suck.

Autopilot with the FSD package for auto lane change is a game changer for long commutes too. You'll actually be able to get home and not feel completely exhausted from the drive. You'll also be less stressed because you won't have to worry about driving while being fatigued from a long day at work. To put it bluntly, I wouldn't be able to do this commute without Autopilot. It makes that much of a difference.

I also had a P90D Model S as a loaner recently, so I'll give my thoughts on that as well. To cut to the chase, I'd still recommend the 3 over the S. The S was nice, but it was noticeably less efficient and Autopilot didn't seem as steady as it did in the 3. In the S it felt like it swayed more in the lanes whereas the 3 stays pretty close to center all the time. But in the end it mostly comes down to the range. The 90D still wouldn't have enough range in colder temps. Not only that, but the S also charges at a slower rate than the 3 and gains less miles per charge as well since it's not as efficient. So in the winter you'd have to stop for even longer than you would in an SR+... so yeah, I don't think that would be a good idea.

Any other questions just let me know.

 

[Viking79]

Thanks guys.

I will charge at work (at least 8 hours at 6.6 kW) and home (overnight with 7.2 kW) and I can use supercharger if necessary (rather avoid it). Thanks for the link to ABRP, I didn't realize they have modeling information for all the weather conditions and battery degradation. It looks like range would be a problem with wet/snow roads, 0 F with 10 mph headwinds and 20% battery degradation (Not unreasonable assumption a couple days per year). However, I could charge to 100% those days or not work or drive the Mini Cooper. I am trying to justify spending the extra $10,000 on the AWD LR... The AWD would be nice in Iowa...

It really does look like the LR might be necessary to avoid issues or to avoid having to make driving compromises (like driving 60 mph instead of 75 mph) on those worst case days once the battery gets older... I guess I have to decide if those are worthwhile...

 

[CharleyBC]

You're asking the right questions. Too many people take a quick glance and say, "Oh, the range is about twice the commute distance, and I can charge at work, so I'm all set!" But as you point out, you plan to drive 75 and it gets cold, which is a big hit if you want to be comfy.

So if you can afford LR, get it. The other factor is AWD, which you may really appreciate in winter driving conditions.

Besides, you'll love this car so much, you will take lots of road trip vacations, and the range is really nice for that!

 

[Viking79]

I'll probably be able to answer any of your questions because as it turns out, my commute is 120 miles one way! I opted for the LR AWD and I'd definitely suggest you do the same. In the winter my usable range is closer to 220-240 miles when it's below zero out and the heat blasting. If you had an SR+ that'd probably be closer to 150-160 miles, so that wouldn't cut it and having to stop everyday midway through your commute would suck.

Autopilot with the FSD package for auto lane change is a game changer for long commutes too. You'll actually be able to get home and not feel completely exhausted from the drive. You'll also be less stressed because you won't have to worry about driving while being fatigued from a long day at work. To put it bluntly, I wouldn't be able to do this commute without Autopilot. It makes that much of a difference.

I also had a P90D Model S as a loaner recently, so I'll give my thoughts on that as well. To cut to the chase, I'd still recommend the 3 over the S. The S was nice, but it was noticeably less efficient and Autopilot didn't seem as steady as it did in the 3. In the S it felt like it swayed more in the lanes whereas the 3 stays pretty close to center all the time. But in the end it mostly comes down to the range. The 90D still wouldn't have enough range in colder temps. Not only that, but the S also charges at a slower rate than the 3 and gains less miles per charge as well since it's not as efficient. So in the winter you'd have to stop for even longer than you would in an SR+... so yeah, I don't think that would be a good idea.

Any other questions just let me know.

Thanks, that is really helpful. One of the reasons I have ruled out cars like a used Bolt EV are due to lack of adaptive cruise and AP, and the Leaf SV+ is same price as Model 3 SR+ so don't see a reason to go with it either. I suppose it really is smarter going with the LR AWD, then I can use it for long distance travel as well and it will age much better (should have same range as a new SR+ even with 300,000 miles or something). Last thing I want to do is run out of charge on the road when it is -24 F...

 

[jerry33]

Thanks, that is really helpful. One of the reasons I have ruled out cars like a used Bolt EV are due to lack of adaptive cruise and AP, and the Leaf SV+ is same price as Model 3 SR+ so don't see a reason to go with it either. I suppose it really is smarter going with the LR AWD, then I can use it for long distance travel as well and it will age much better (should have same range as a new SR+ even with 300,000 miles or something). Last thing I want to do is run out of charge on the road when it is -24 F...

Well, you will get plenty of warnings to slow down if the Nav system believes there's a problem, but getting the LR is just smart unless you're only using it for very local driving and never for trips.

 

[Viking79]

Thanks again everyone, sounds like LR is way to go if I want hop in and drive (should work and/or home charger be down I could go on route with superchargers without issue like in SR+).

Secondly, how are the other features on Premium interior, is sound upgrade worth it and other options like premium connectivity? Any idea how much that will cost after a year? Are they still offering it for free?

 

[earthwormjim]

That's honestly too far of a a commute for any EV, especially with it being purely highway and in a cold weather location, where you're unlikely to get rated range. If 110 was the round trip number, OK that would be doable even with an SR+.

If you miss charging for whatever reason, which does happen, I've had random days where my car decided not to charge, and only because I went to check on it did it work out, you could be screwed Even something like an emergency could massively complicate things, what if you get to work, and find you must go back home immediately?

A hybrid or plug in hybrid makes more sense to me in your situation.

 

[bd7349]

Thanks, that is really helpful. One of the reasons I have ruled out cars like a used Bolt EV are due to lack of adaptive cruise and AP, and the Leaf SV+ is same price as Model 3 SR+ so don't see a reason to go with it either. I suppose it really is smarter going with the LR AWD, then I can use it for long distance travel as well and it will age much better (should have same range as a new SR+ even with 300,000 miles or something). Last thing I want to do is run out of charge on the road when it is -24 F...

Yeah, when I was cross shopping other EV's the only one that checked all the boxes was the LR AWD. The benefit of Tesla's over others EV's is that if you do need to stop, a 5 minute supercharge is good for like 50 miles which is certainly enough to get home even in the absolute worst conditions. In an EV like the Bolt that would be a pain in the ass since you'd have to find a nearby working public fast charger and even then the car maxes out at 50kW charge speeds, so it'd be at least 20 minutes to add 50 miles. It'd also cost like $10 for those 50 miles. Now imagine having to do that everyday...

That's honestly too far of a a commute for any EV, especially with it being purely highway and in a cold weather location, where you're unlikely to get rated range.

If you miss charging for whatever reason, which does happen, I've had random days where my car decided not to charge, and only because I went to check on it did it work out.]], you could be screwed Even something like an emergency could massively complicate things, what if you get to work, and find you must go back home immediately?

A hybrid or plug in hybrid makes more sense to me in your situation.

Wrong. I commute further than this everyday in my Model 3 and I'm up in the northeast where it can get really cold at times. I'd go so far as to say the Model 3 is the only car that makes this commute doable since it's super efficient, has nearly zero maintenance costs, is cheap to fuel, and does 99% of the driving for you with Autopilot. That last one is the biggest reason since it allows you to get home after such a long drive WITHOUT feeling absolutely drained. The significant decrease in mental fatigue after doing such a long drive with this on Autopilot cannot be understated.

Prior to getting my 3 if I was even slightly tired (say from a bad nights sleep or just a long day at work), I'd be nervous about falling asleep at the wheel or spacing out and missing something, like someone slamming on their brakes. Autopilot takes all that worry away since it always watches out for all of that and is always keeping me perfectly in my lane. I had a plugin hybrid (Chevy Volt) before and it still sucked down gas on this commute ($400/month in gas vs. $60-80/month in electricity).

So yeah, a Model 3 is 100% better than any hybrid/plugin hybrid would be for such a long commute. And I'm speaking from experience.

 

[Viking79]

That's honestly too far of a a commute for any EV, especially with it being purely highway and in a cold weather location, where you're unlikely to get rated range. If 110 was the round trip number, OK that would be doable even with an SR+.

If you miss charging for whatever reason, which does happen, I've had random days where my car decided not to charge, and only because I went to check on it did it work out, you could be screwed Even something like an emergency could massively complicate things, what if you get to work, and find you must go back home immediately?

A hybrid or plug in hybrid makes more sense to me in your situation.

So the back story is my wife might take a job in Des Moines, IA where I work in Cedar Rapids. It is easier if I commute. My wife drives a Clarity PHEV and I have an i3 REx. I already suggested trading cars with her, but she does not like the i3. She said I could get a Tesla then she would trade cars with me...

Worrying about range might be an issue with the SR+, which is why I am starting to think the LR AWD is the way to go. However, the other cases are true with any car, there is always a chance it won't start, etc. Absolute worst case range for the SR+ might be 100 miles and 150 for LR AWD. This is leaving margin, on most days I could probably drive to and from work on the LR AWD. In winter I would have to charge for sure, but as I said, I have work or a supercharger 25 miles away on the Interstate route.

To me, the LR AWD would leave plenty of margin that I would feel comfortable. I would also keep my old Mini S as a backup. Plus, my work is highly flexible.

 

[Big Earl]

My commute might grow a lot, like from 5 miles to 110 miles one way. I will of course work with my office to work from home some days, etc, but I am looking for an excuse to go from my i3 REx to a Tesla.

Thoughts on SR+? I am looking at 110 miles averaging about 65 mph (usual route) or interstate route at 130 miles at 75 mph. The issue is it gets very cold here (expect a few weeks with highs around 0F). I will be able to charge at work, and the longer route has superchargers available.

Is the Model 3 SR+ going to be enough to easily make 110 miles at 0 F and say 200,000 miles at 65 or 70 mph? With snow tires? I suspect range with margin might be 200 miles, -20% for aging, -30% for cold -10% for tires, it could be around 100 mile range. Are my numbers unrealistic? Again, I could take the longer route with the superchargers, but the speed will be higher that way and chargers are fairly close to either endpoint.

Trying to decide if I should get AWD instead of SR+ or even a used S 90D, however, I like the idea for FSD available on Model 3. How good is the old AP? For a long commute like this I feel it could be very helpful.

Thanks!

My rule of thumb is to deduct 50% of your normal range for extreme winter conditions (subzero + snow). Some people will argue with me that it's more like 30%, but that's been my experience in those conditions when maintaining a comfortable cabin temperature. Consider it a worst-case scenario for budgeting your range.

If you can charge at work, you're golden, even in an SR+. If you can't charge at work, you should still be fine unless you get stuck in a blizzard. Long range dual motor is a beast in the winter and I highly recommend one if you can fit it into your budget.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

They are rare but there are S 90Ds out there with AP2 hardware (which should allow upgrading to FSD) and free transferable Supercharging for life. The Model 3 will probably be cheaper but the prices on used S 90Ds has come down a lot this year.

I had an S 90D with AP2 and could easily do over 220 miles between charges, even in the winter, when taking the interstate across Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas.

The LR 3 or S 90D could make it. The LR 3 should be more efficient and have a longer range.

 

[Viking79]

They are rare but there are S 90Ds out there with AP2 hardware (which should allow upgrading to FSD) and free transferable Supercharging for life. The Model 3 will probably be cheaper but the prices on used S 90Ds has come down a lot this year.

I had an S 90D with AP2 and could easily do over 220 miles between charges, even in the winter, when taking the interstate across Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas.

I do like the idea of unlimited battery warranty if I put 200,000 miles on in 4 years...

How do I identify which AP is on which S?