The way this works is that only a Tesla battery will work in a Tesla. If you want a new battery you pay for supercharging.
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Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA)
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
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- elon is an ass investing TSLA
The way this works is that only a Tesla battery will work in a Tesla. If you want a new battery you pay for supercharging.
I'll just mention the thing I always say: charging for electricity is never going to be worthwhile. Charging for *parking*, however, may start to make sense. (This will also deal with the problem of people hogging Supercharger spots when they've already filled up their batteries..) A per-hour charge for sitting and locking up the parking spot will probably eventually materialize at the busier places. This also deals with the "Taxi fleet hogging the superchargers" scenario.
I truly do not understand what you are trying to say.
Yes, only a Tesla battery will work in a Tesla -- obviously -- but what does that have to do with my post?
My point was that, as I understand it, Tesla says that if a Model S was purchased with Supercharging capability, then Supercharging is free for the life of the car. If the cars battery is changed at some point, that does not change the fact that the car (that VIN) can Supercharge without paying for the charge. Many people have posted on TMC that there battery was changed by Tesla because of some sort of problem and they could still Supercharge for free.
If there is a statement from Tesla that contradicts what I am saying, I would like to know about it.
I just wanted to clarify that during the life of the car the battery will probably get replaced. When that happens (unless it's a warranty replace of course) the owner pays for supercharging.
Citation needed. Really, really need a citation or it's on the horrible side of wrong.
What citation? Do you mean that Tesla will sell so cheap batteries in the future (currently $45K) that it will be clear that $2K have not been added to the price for supercharging?
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Building out the supercharger network _is_ capital expenditure. From the filing : We plan to continue investing in our Supercharger network for the foreseeable future, including in NorthAmerica, Europe and Asia and expect such spending to be approximately 5% of total capital spending over the next 12 months
Krugerrand
Meow
Thank you for your helpful comment. Would you like to share the current price of a battery with us?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I don't know that the raw battery cost is without a prepaid plan, but the prepaid plans when they were still available was $8k 40kWh, $10k for 60kWh, and $12k for 85kWh.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/2013-model-s-price-increase
Also, even if the price is high enough that there is $2k of margin available to cover supercharging, that does not mean that money is used for supercharging versus other capital expenditures. So to make that claim, there really does need to be a citation (for example something in SEC filing saying where the margins for the battery money goes to).
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Krugerrand
Meow
And you know this how? Citation please. I have never seen it stated by Tesla that if a Model S owner pays for a new/replacement battery for their car then they immediately lose the free Supercharging they paid for when they bought the car.
Really, you can't just make stuff up. Show me where Tesla has said that. I am happy to be proven wrong.
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I just reviewed the video of JB Strauble talking at that conference, on Youtube at The Future of Transportation - YouTube
Here is what Strauble said, in discussing the Supercharger network, quote: "A full charge on a Model S is about ten dollars . It's really not entirely worth the hassle of dealing with a whole separate billing structure. In the future of course I think it will make sense to figure out how we phase in some kind of financial transaction here, but it's going to take time, and for the beginning million cars this is a pretty viable way to do it."
(I believe the $10 is Tesla's cost for the electricity)
I interpret the statement I quoted to mean that they are years away from creating the ability to charge people for a Supercharge, but they think that at some point in the future they will do that. I would not assume that at some point in the future all Tesla's sold will have to pay to use the Superchargers: they could offer a pre-paid "free for life" option and the alternative could be that you pay per Supercharge in exchange for the cost of the car being lower.
And I believe Tesla when they say that the cars they are selling now and since 2012 will have "free for life" Supercharging (assuming the original buyer paid for that option). They can't back away from that, it would be a PR disaster.
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You are of course correct in that. But you presented it so that it could be perceived that you meant that only $500 of the $2,000 being paid for access to SuperChargers was spent on these, and that is what I have tried to show that is completely wrong. I also tried to show that although the development of the network so far has taken a significant portion of this money, it does not necessarily apply equally in the future.
Whereas discussing the competing approaches the various BEV manufacturers are taking to charging infrastructure, in my opinion is still on topic, this discussion of unfounded claims that Tesla is deliberately throttling Supercharger rates has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, Tesla BEV Competition Developments.
Larry
I don't have a citation, I just think this is obvious. Tesla can make their car to accept only Tesla batteries. Why would they sell the batteries with so low price that they would lose (potentially a lot of) money with supercharging in long term? Battery replacement is a perfect way to charge a little bit extra that at least partly covers the charging of that battery for the next 10 years.
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Thank you, this is interesting but as you said they don't offer this any more? Someone will be getting a 40kWh battery after 8 years
. There are several posts in this forum citing an invoice that an insurance company had to pay. There the price of a new battery was $45K. Here is one post about a battery price quote I could find quickly:"I told Tesla I wanted to replace my battery (for one of the same size), and they quoted me $45,000."
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-11429.html
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I think what doesn't make this obvious for I, and others on this thread, is that Supercharging has been tied to the VIN, not the battery. Batteries have been replaced, and the supercharging capability of the car didn't change. One would extrapolate that this would be similar with that battery-swap scenario: If you used a battery swap station your car wouldn't like lose or inherit the ability to supercharge based on the temporary battery you received.
In addition, that battery price that you referred to (I've seen that as well), doesn't change based on if the battery is "supercharging enabled" or not. It's a single price.
Finally, in the battery teardown threads, it appears that the logic & circuitry on board the battery pack supports the BMS... there doesn't appear to be any firmware where it would be programmable to enable/disable supercharging.
I understand what you are saying: Tesla may be simply charging extra for each battery sale to support supercharging... but I doubt it. I believe they are incorporating that in to overall vehicle purchase cost. If anything, they want to get battery cost down as much as possible... replacement expense is still one significant "negative" concern to many potential owners...
Looks like I was not clear. I'm not saying that battery swap would disable supercharging. What I am saying is that the Supercharging cost that you pay when you buy the car will never ever cover supercharging costs for tens of years. It could cover it for the life of the battery and that's why they will charge it again when the owner buys a new battery.
That's a price for a 85kWh supercharger enabled battery. The price that they sell 60kWh batteries does not matter because there are so few of them. Now with 70D all new cars are supercharging enabled.
Does this mean you could use a 3rd party battery in Tesla? I doubt that will work.
That is a very good point but I still think they cannot afford to pay for our electricity forever. I think we'll be seeing upgrade offers, for example from 85kWh to 100kWh battery. I think people are willing to pay a lot for the upgrade and Tesla can sell the old 85 battery for home storage use or something.
No, the citation that says it's for the life of the battery, rather than, as Elon Musk has said, for the life of the car.
As I replied above there is no citation. Supercharging will always work in a car that has it enabled once as Elon has said. Buying a new battery will not disable it. But when you one day buy that new battery you will pay $$$ to cover supercharging for that battery. It will not be a separate fee, it will just be a bit more expensive battery.
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