Love AP but had some scary moments

[Niroc]

I love driving with AP and will continue to use it. I have had some scary moments, though. My M3 did get confused a couple of times and one time swerved hard correcting itself within the lines. Good practice to not let down your attention too much when in AP mode

Also, has any experience that AP mode tends to hug the double yellow line around bends? Its a bit unnerving how close it gets to the opposite flow of traffic.

 

[bwilson4web]

Also, has any experience that AP mode tends to hug the double yellow line around bends? Its a bit unnerving how close it gets to the opposite flow of traffic.

It was worse on the initial version in our car. Better, it is still important to watch out.

Bob Wilson

 

[Boomer543]

My big issue is phantom braking. Happens at least once on virtually every AP trip. Keep my foot nearby to correct, but worried about getting rear-ended some day....

 

[bwilson4web]

My big issue is phantom braking. Happens at least once on virtually every AP trip. Keep my foot nearby to correct, but worried about getting rear-ended some day....

We need some metrics. See if you can find a cell phone app with inertia metrics or a dash cam with inertial metrics. Then when it happens, save the recording and share.

I have a few 'phantom', mild braking events but not as severe as the 'magic eye' in our BMW i3-REx. It is not enough to bother me as they are so brief and mild ... more like a very light tap.

If you can get some metrics, I'll also capture a few and we can compare numbers.

Bob Wilson

 

[Knightshade]

*checks*

Yup... yet another "Hey, AP doesn't work right when I use it in places the manual explicitly states it is not intended to be used at all" thread....

 

[bwilson4web]

. . .
Yup... yet another "Hey, AP doesn't work right when I use it in places the manual explicitly states it is not intended to be used at all" thread....

Another "ignore it" and a volunteer wishing to stay ignorant posting

Lacking metrics or video, stand aside for the curious while we'll figure it out. We need videos and metrics to determine what is going on. Then if you think the video shows AP misuse, post your opinion with the shared, facts and data to back it up.

Bob Wilson

 

[Silicon Desert]

I love driving with AP and will continue to use it. I have had some scary moments, though. My M3 did get confused a couple of times and one time swerved hard correcting itself within the lines.

I think I remember my great grand-dad saying the same thing when riding a new horse.

They only thing I can recommend (actually from my wife), is to just use it on major highways until you are used to the car (assuming you might be relatively new to the car). On those sharp bends you refer, I don't doubt there are still some quirks that might catch you by surprise.

 

[Knightshade]

Another "ignore it" and a volunteer wishing to stay ignorant posting

Lacking metrics or video, stand aside for the curious while we'll figure it out.

It's already figured out, and explained pretty clearly in the owners manual.

If you want to waste your time repeatedly confirming what the manual already tells you it's your time to waste of course.

When people keep starting threads about it though it wastes everyone elses time too.

A
We need videos and metrics to determine what is going on.

we really don't.

We need people to read the manual so they understand where the system is designed to actually be used and where it isn't.


"HERE IS VIDEO OF THE SYSTEM NOT WORKING RIGHT IN A PLACE TESLA ALREADY TOLD US IT IS NOT MEANT TO WORK RIGHT" is not useful data.



APs fundamental assumptions are that you are on a limited-access divided highway, with all traffic going in one direction, and there is no cross-traffic or stop signs.


So every time someone posts a video of "OMG! AP TOTALLY DID NOT WORK GOING THROUGH INTERSECTIONS ON A TWO WAY ROAD" they're providing 0 useful data of any kind other than add one to total of people who didn't read the manual

 

[duanra]

Ok, these things are clearly explained in the manual. However why isn't the AP disconnecting when it is entering zones where it is not supposed to be on ?

 

[Knightshade]

Ok, these things are clearly explained in the manual. However why isn't the AP disconnecting when it is entering zones where it is not supposed to be on ?

As many folks have found with speed limits- Teslas map data base is not perfect.

So Tesla leaves the decision of what roads fit the requirements of AP to the driver.


Caddy uses a different approach with Supercruise- geofencing the system to only engage on a tiny fraction of all roads that GM has paid to have very very highly mapped


Caddy "hopes" to have the amount of miles of roads SC is available on up to 200,000 by end of 2019

Cadillac's Super Cruise System Adds 70K Miles of Compatible Highway | Digital Trends

Which is about 7.5% of all paved roads in the US.





Anyway- certainly there's places outside the intended uses of AP where it's probably "ok" to use it- if you're driving on a two way mostly-straight road out in the nevada desert that you know is nothing but straight no intersections for the next half hour- turning it on and paying attention will probably work fine.


But posting here about OMG AP FAIL when the car brakes because someone ahead of you turned through your lane at an intersection the system is even not meant to understand at all just wastes everyone's time and spreads more FUD about the system.

 

[M3_MikeH]

My big issue is phantom braking. Happens at least once on virtually every AP trip. Keep my foot nearby to correct, but worried about getting rear-ended some day....

I have had unexpected breaking in situations on a two lane, slightly winding road, oncoming traffic will cause braking but not all and nothing where oncoming was across the double yellow line. Felt like whiplash one time. Now I dont use AP on that road.

 

[JulienW]

Ok, these things are clearly explained in the manual. However why isn't the AP disconnecting when it is entering zones where it is not supposed to be on ?

Many car features and system fall in the use under certain conditions and not others but are not disabled. A car manual may say not to adjust the seat while driving but it is not disabled.

Also for me there are basically 2 main types of AP driving:

1) Highway cruising which is excellent, accurate, easy and stress reducing.
2) Highly challenging tight/curvy roads that are high stress with both hands on the wheel, super alert and ready to take over (and do often) in a fraction of a second. This can be exciting seeing what AP can do BUT requires WAY MORE attention that just driving yourself.

Number 2 should NOT be used at all if you are wanting number 1.

 

[bwilson4web]

If you want to waste your time repeatedly confirming what the manual already tells you it's your time to waste of course.

We agree, it is my time. You can conserve your time by using the excellent "ignore user" option.

In the meanwhile, I'm curious if the OP will follow up. I've not found 'phantom brake' events to be a big deal. Since I have a G recording dash cam, I'll try to quantify what I'm seeing ... magnitude, duration and triggers.

Bob Wilson

 

[duanra]

Many car features and system fall in the use under certain conditions and not others but are not disabled. A car manual may say not to adjust the seat while driving but it is not disabled.

Also for me there are basically 2 main types of AP driving:

1) Highway cruising which is excellent, accurate, easy and stress reducing.
2) Highly challenging tight/curvy roads that are high stress with both hands on the wheel, super alert and ready to take over (and do often) in a fraction of a second. This can be exciting seeing what AP can do BUT requires WAY MORE attention that just driving yourself.

Number 2 should NOT be used at all if you are wanting number 1.

You make a good point, however I don't think a seat adjustment and a highly sophisticated system is comparable.

The AP would react in unpredictable ways at not so predictable moment as far as I can understand according to what I read when in situation it musn't be used.

I can relate to what I know which is AP for planes. For instance, in the plane I fly the AP must not be engage bellow 400 feet after take off. If you try to engage it it will not. There is a lot less gray areas.
I realise that the maps are not necessarily very accurate, however urban zones seem not to be approved for the AP. So that could be a no no for AP engagement, plain and simple.
What I am guessing (and this is speculation) is that Tesla sees benefits to collect data in not approved situation for system improvement.
It seems dangerous to me.

 

[Niroc]

Many car features and system fall in the use under certain conditions and not others but are not disabled. A car manual may say not to adjust the seat while driving but it is not disabled.

Also for me there are basically 2 main types of AP driving:

1) Highway cruising which is excellent, accurate, easy and stress reducing.
2) Highly challenging tight/curvy roads that are high stress with both hands on the wheel, super alert and ready to take over (and do often) in a fraction of a second. This can be exciting seeing what AP can do BUT requires WAY MORE attention that just driving yourself.

Number 2 should NOT be used at all if you are wanting number 1.

Agreed. Even though there were minor hiccups with number 2, I believe it is actually safer with AP on. Just need to be alert. I still think Tesla needs to work a bit on hugging the double yellow line on a bend though.

 

[Knightshade]

Agreed. Even though there were minor hiccups with number 2, I believe it is actually safer with AP on. Just need to be alert. I still think Tesla needs to work a bit on hugging the double yellow line on a bend though.

Again though, the system is explicitly not intended to be used on roads with oncoming traffic like that.

Now, if FSD (on HW3, once HW3-aware software for local roads is released) has an issue with that situation, that would be something I'd expect they'd work on "fixing" since it's something that's actually meant to work correctly.

 

[bwilson4web]

Other than a crossing car, no phantom braking and the crossing car braking was expected. However, a familiar road widening was handled under 19.20.4 much better:

Madison Pike widens at this point and in the past the car would 'split the difference' and at the posted 40 mph, a little surprise. This afternoon, it was closer to the dashed line, much smoother, and less of a surprise.

Bob Wilson

 

[Niroc]

*checks*

Yup... yet another "Hey, AP doesn't work right when I use it in places the manual explicitly states it is not intended to be used at all" thread....

Folks, Below is what the manual states. It is about restricted driving in which I was in that mode. So, either this poster is completely ignorant and a just some dude with social issues or he has proof in a manual that contradicts what is stated below. So , he needs to show proof of a manual that explicitly states what he is proclaiming. And if he doesn't have proof he needs to be banned for being a fuzzy little troll.

stricted Speed
Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully
attentive driver on freeways and highways
where access is limited by entry and exit
ramps. If you choose to use Autosteer on
residential roads, a road without a center
divider, or a road where access is not limited,
Autosteer may limit the maximum allowed
cruising speed. The maximum allowed cruising
speed on such roads is calculated based on
the detected speed limit including a Speed
Assist offset of up to +5 mph (10 km/h). Any
Speed Assist offset above +5 mph (10 km/h) is
rounded down to +5 mph (10 km/h). However,
you may select a more restrictive cruising
speed by reducing the offset from speed limit
setting (see
Controlling Speed Assist
78) or by tapping the plus (+) or minus (-)
buttons on the touchscreen.

 

[Knightshade]

Folks, Below is what the manual states. It is about restricted driving in which I was in that mode.

No, you weren't.

It's weird you quote the part of the manual telling you you're wrong and still insist you're not wrong.

So, either this poster is completely ignorant and a just some dude with social issues or he has proof in a manual that contradicts what is stated below.

Option 4)

You, yourself, contradicted what the manual says below. Again weird you're not aware of it given you quoted it.

Let me help.

So , he needs to show proof of a manual that explicitly states what he is proclaiming.

Uh, you just did it for me. But since you still can't see it let me help, that's why I'm here!

Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully
attentive driver on freeways and highways
where access is limited by entry and exit
ramps.

See- you did not do that

We can tell, because you told us that in the original post.

Also, has any experience that AP mode tends to hug the double yellow line around bends? Its a bit unnerving how close it gets to the opposite flow of traffic.

Limited access/divided highways don't have opposite flows of traffic you see. And usually not double yellow lines either.

In fact it even warns you right after that that if you ignore this design intention the system may reduce your max speed allowed.... specifically mentioning some of the types of roads the system is not intended for use on

residential roads, a road without a center
divider, or a road where access is not limited

You know. The exact kind you drove on.



Again- AP makes a few fundamental assumptions when in use- one major one is you are on a limited access road where all the traffic is going the same direction and apart from things like on/off ramps there's nobody entering or leaving the road, and there's never any cross traffic... (ignoring that last part is what killed the 2 idiots in tractor trailer AP drive-under accidents).




You're welcome to ignore the intended use of the system and the conditions it's expected to work correctly under, but expect someone to point out that's what you're doing when you then complain it "didn't work right"

 

[Knightshade]

Ok. I usually don’t answer trolling types as some think their issues in their life is everyone’s problem. For your accusatory statement. YOU still haven't shown proof in the manual backing up your statements. I will report your post as possible trolling. and hopefully moderators will handle it appropriately

I mean, I quoted the manual (well, you did, and I quoted your quote)

Then I quoted you telling us you used AP on a road it is explicitly not intended to be used on per the manual you just got done quoting.

You admitted driving on an non-limited access undivided road. Which the manual tells you AP is not intended for.

(one with oncoming traffic no less)

You were using AP someplace it's not intended to be used, per Tesla themselves, so AP not behaving perfectly on roads it's not intended to be used at all isn't anything wrong with the system it's something wrong with your understanding or expectations of the system.

Not sure how much clearer I can make it, despite your repeated and unfounded name calling.