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Lucid Air Grand Touring vs Tesla Model S Plaid.

What do you think about the validity of having "xxx fully refundable' pre-orders which can easily be prefabricated?

2:13
"what people reported back in March of this year that lucid's pre-order book was sketchy
they claimed that the orders in fact a very large percentage of those reservations weren't
actually placed by the general public but by shareholders and by staff working at the company."

Anyway, the luxurious EV market is very limited and already crowded (Mercedes, Porsche, Tesla....).
The Tesla Model S/X production in fact represents less than 10% of the total Tesla production.

IMO, the only way for Lucid to survive is to start building a smaller Lucid sedan/SUV

Also what the real advantage to announce a Lucid factory in Saudi Arabia when the majority of the suppliers are in Asia?

 

WilliamG

Hinge Fanatic
Apr 20, 2019
7,060
10,979
Seattle, WA
Unfortunately, I agree with you. Full-time track mode is just too much. Too bad one can't tease out just the stronger regen available in track mode for regular driving.

Chime back in here if you get a chance to try track mode to make sure it's just not my imagination!
Your imagination about regen in Track Mode? No, it’s definitely much stronger!
 
What do you think about the validity of having "xxx fully refundable' pre-orders which can easily be prefabricated?

2:13
"what people reported back in March of this year that lucid's pre-order book was sketchy
they claimed that the orders in fact a very large percentage of those reservations weren't
actually placed by the general public but by shareholders and by staff working at the company."

Anyway, the luxurious EV market is very limited and already crowded (Mercedes, Porsche, Tesla....).
The Tesla Model S/X production in fact represents less than 10% of the total Tesla production.

IMO, the only way for Lucid to survive is to start building a smaller Lucid sedan/SUV

Also what the real advantage to announce a Lucid factory in Saudi Arabia when the majority of the suppliers are in Asia?


lol he said they went from 37k pre order to 34k pre orders but only delivered 2282 vehicles. that sounds like a marketing rounding ploy not anything nefarious. Also id wager a majority percentage of those pre orders are people like me who have one at the $77k price and also converted their pre order to an order by giving up the $300 deposit to make it non refundable for the tax credit. With the tax credit, I should be under $70k for a lucid air pure with 3 years of free ea charging on a road trip cruiser with over 400+ miles of range... not really that hard to imagine 30k people signing up for that.
 

jlv1

Twice as much fun
Oct 14, 2015
589
570
Central MA
I've seen a few out in the wild and finally got to inspect one up close at the Lucid store in South Boston.

Overall, a nice car. I'd love to test drive it to see what it feels like. But the thing is huge. Back in 2014 when I first sat in a Model S I thought it was huge -- and the Air is much larger outside and in.

But for all that extra space, the trunk is atrocious. First of all, it has a trunk, not a hatch like a Model S. I doubt I could fit half of what I fit in my Model S into the Air. Such a huge car, and it can't carry nearly as much.

So I'm back to waiting until Tesla will again offer a Pano Roof and a full round steering wheel. :p
 
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I've seen a few out in the wild and finally got to inspect one up close at the Lucid store in South Boston.

Overall, a nice car. I'd love to test drive it to see what it feels like. But the thing is huge. Back in 2014 when I first sat in a Model S I thought it was huge -- and the Air is much larger outside and in.

But for all that extra space, the trunk is atrocious. First of all, it has a trunk, not a hatch like a Model S. I doubt I could fit half of what I fit in my Model S into the Air. Such a huge car, and it can't carry nearly as much.

So I'm back to waiting until Tesla will again offer a Pano Roof and a full round steering wheel. :p
Do you mean huge on the inside? As, I think the Tesla is slightly larger in length and width and even height? I think the Lucid is a great looking car and have placed an order for one. Still not sure I will get one, as I really like my refresh Model S. Interested if their suspension is better than the Model S and also in their UI and eventually getting CarPlay. There is no place to test drive one in the Ohio area yet, which is a bummer.

You are right, I don’t like the trunk at all, but the frunk is awesome and power in the Touring and above. Also - like the soft close doors in Touring and above.

Biggest negative is no Tesla Supercharging Network. That is still Tesla’s huge advantage over other manufactures, until they open up, which if I keep my Tesla, I hope they do not.
 
Do you mean huge on the inside? As, I think the Tesla is slightly larger in length and width and even height? I think the Lucid is a great looking car and have placed an order for one. Still not sure I will get one, as I really like my refresh Model S. Interested if their suspension is better than the Model S and also in their UI and eventually getting CarPlay. There is no place to test drive one in the Ohio area yet, which is a bummer.

You are right, I don’t like the trunk at all, but the frunk is awesome and power in the Touring and above. Also - like the soft close doors in Touring and above.

Biggest negative is no Tesla Supercharging Network. That is still Tesla’s huge advantage over other manufactures, until they open up, which if I keep my Tesla, I hope they do not.

i think lucid cared more about luxury in terms of nvh which is why they went with the trunk design over the hatch. Trunks naturally cancel out a lot of nvh noise and on a road tripper that can get up to 500+ miles of range, thats a pretty critical aspect. I think theres plenty of room when you combine that massive frunk, trunk and sub trunk. Not as practical as a model s though when you want to haul large items.

The suspension will be interesting to compare as the lucid isnt air ride but apparently has a really good magnetic suspension setup.
 
i think lucid cared more about luxury in terms of nvh which is why they went with the trunk design over the hatch. Trunks naturally cancel out a lot of nvh noise and on a road tripper that can get up to 500+ miles of range, thats a pretty critical aspect. I think theres plenty of room when you combine that massive frunk, trunk and sub trunk. Not as practical as a model s though when you want to haul large items.

The suspension will be interesting to compare as the lucid isnt air ride but apparently has a really good magnetic suspension setup.
I read somewhere its because they wanted a structural bar across the rear and thus had to resort to a normal trunk. But that imho is a dumb idea because it is a sedan and most consumers would wish for the flexibility a hatch offers... That was a deal breaker for me because their showroom is right around my neighborhood too...
 
I've seen a few out in the wild and finally got to inspect one up close at the Lucid store in South Boston.

Overall, a nice car. I'd love to test drive it to see what it feels like. But the thing is huge. Back in 2014 when I first sat in a Model S I thought it was huge -- and the Air is much larger outside and in.

But for all that extra space, the trunk is atrocious. First of all, it has a trunk, not a hatch like a Model S. I doubt I could fit half of what I fit in my Model S into the Air. Such a huge car, and it can't carry nearly as much.

So I'm back to waiting until Tesla will again offer a Pano Roof and a full round steering wheel. :p
I agree with with the trunk issues - sad. But the 2022 Model S is actually a larger vehicle with the same wheelbase.

Lucid Specs.JPG

Lucid Air GT

Model S Specs.JPG

2022 Model S
 
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unk45

Member
Supporting Member
Jun 15, 2022
588
8,753
global
Thanks for the detailed writeup @WilliamG, especially the driving impressions. "Is the Air sportier than a Model S?" is something I've wondered, and not found a clear answer on, until now. That extra strong regen sounds nice though. How does it compare to Track Mode 100% regen?

I thought the Air back seat and trunk were both atrociously bad for such a big car. There is some good tech in the car, but the packaging needs work, and the range is a bit of a cheat with those footwell battery cells. Stuffing rear passengers' knees in their faces is not a good tradeoff for extra range, in my opinion. (I've sat in an Air.)

I'm well aware the Model S back seat is low, due to the skateboard battery layout, but the Air is even worse. The Air back seat and trunk are at best on par with the Model 3...but the Air is Model S size and price. It's a poor combination of attributes that is wholly unappealing to me.

Lucid matching the latest Tesla efficiency right out of the gate is impressive for sure. I'd like to see Lucid merge with an automaker that understands product design and packaging better, so Lucid's EV tech can be put to better use. (Lucid + Polestar anyone? Yeah I'm sure that won't happen, but they do have complementary strengths. If the Polestar 2 had Lucid Air efficiency and charging performance, we'd probably own one right now.)
FWIW I have a 2021 Model S Plaid and a 2022 Volvo XC40 Recharge, the Polestar 2's fat twin sister. There seems to have been zero attention paid to efficiency in the Volvo, basically it seems like a quieter ICE. Mostly it works, but several faults have not been fixable in the year I have had the car despite four dealer/importer efforts. Parking brakes stick if car unused more than three days, brakes shudder if not applied over region every day or so, phone links fail eery few days and must be reset, the list goes on, but the real problem is the efficiency which is horrible, more than twice the consumption of the Plaid. Google maps is wonderful and 360 surround vision is great, the sound system beats Tesla handily. Bizarrely the upgrades are OTA automatic with zero user actions.That's good, but the upgrades mostly do not do very much.

Reading Lucid, Rivian, VW and Porsche reviews by users makes me think that none are quite managing operating system and car integration as well as does Tesla. All four of those and a few Hyundai/Kia models are doing interesting things but none seem to understand how to integrate the entire vehicle, nor do they seem to use enough computing power to make really quick response.

All that integration is wonderful except for day to day efficiency where the Tesla and the industry's only genuine software upgrade process. All those others I mentioned plus a couple Stellantis models (e.g. new Fiat 500e, Peugeot e208 and e2008) are accomplishing things that were unexpectedly good. In my opinion, every one of them is best for brand loyalists now, and the brand new ones in Rivian, Lucid (and probably now Lordstown) all have attractive features but suffer in systems integration.

If we are to make a transition to BEV's all these makers and more must raise their games in major ways, including efficiency, manufacturing economy and freedom from maintenance.
At least they exist and most brand loyalists probably will not know what they're missing.

We can anticipate Tesla paying more attention to ride quality and some other features, such as 360 vision for drivers, since we are rather far from majority Robotaxi, or FSD so driver situational awareness is almost trivial to fix with simple displays that already exist.

Just for the record. The instant Tesla sells in Brazil my Volvo goes to whoever wants it! I may criticize Tesla on some things but my three Teslas have been the best vehicles I've ever experienced. I just want to have them be even better.😎
 
FWIW I have a 2021 Model S Plaid and a 2022 Volvo XC40 Recharge, the Polestar 2's fat twin sister. There seems to have been zero attention paid to efficiency in the Volvo, basically it seems like a quieter ICE. Mostly it works, but several faults have not been fixable in the year I have had the car despite four dealer/importer efforts. Parking brakes stick if car unused more than three days, brakes shudder if not applied over region every day or so, phone links fail eery few days and must be reset, the list goes on, but the real problem is the efficiency which is horrible, more than twice the consumption of the Plaid. Google maps is wonderful and 360 surround vision is great, the sound system beats Tesla handily. Bizarrely the upgrades are OTA automatic with zero user actions.That's good, but the upgrades mostly do not do very much.

Reading Lucid, Rivian, VW and Porsche reviews by users makes me think that none are quite managing operating system and car integration as well as does Tesla. All four of those and a few Hyundai/Kia models are doing interesting things but none seem to understand how to integrate the entire vehicle, nor do they seem to use enough computing power to make really quick response.

All that integration is wonderful except for day to day efficiency where the Tesla and the industry's only genuine software upgrade process. All those others I mentioned plus a couple Stellantis models (e.g. new Fiat 500e, Peugeot e208 and e2008) are accomplishing things that were unexpectedly good. In my opinion, every one of them is best for brand loyalists now, and the brand new ones in Rivian, Lucid (and probably now Lordstown) all have attractive features but suffer in systems integration.

If we are to make a transition to BEV's all these makers and more must raise their games in major ways, including efficiency, manufacturing economy and freedom from maintenance.
At least they exist and most brand loyalists probably will not know what they're missing.

We can anticipate Tesla paying more attention to ride quality and some other features, such as 360 vision for drivers, since we are rather far from majority Robotaxi, or FSD so driver situational awareness is almost trivial to fix with simple displays that already exist.

Just for the record. The instant Tesla sells in Brazil my Volvo goes to whoever wants it! I may criticize Tesla on some things but my three Teslas have been the best vehicles I've ever experienced. I just want to have them be even better.😎
Agreed. Based on what I have seen, no other EV manufacturer has quite discovered or matched Tesla's secret sauce, at least for EV drivetrain. That will no doubt improve for Tesla's rivals, but it is just not there yet for them.

Teslas are not perfect, although I must say that our Model 3 so far has done very well in terms of reliably meeting our own needs, as has the Tesla Supercharger system. My only 'beefs' with our Model 3 are relatively minor: improve the windshield wiper functionality in 'auto' mode and do something more useful and interesting with the left part - the most accessible part - of the vehicle touchscreen. While I know that this has not been the case for all Tesla customers, our own experience with basic reliability on our Model 3 has been essentially faultless - best I have had in over 30 years of vehicle ownership.
 
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