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Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire
- Thread starter ACarneiro
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fholbert
Active Member
Full disclosure: Shortly after buying my MY I put a smoke detector in my garage.
The working rationale, at least as I see it, is
- ICE started the fire, a diesel Land Rover
- the presence of EVs altered the fire brigade response because of the way they burn
- EVs also burn at a much hotter temperature which can cause buildings to collapse, which is what seems to have happened
The thing that’s conflated is the original cause of the fire, and what’s turned it into the massive inferno.
It may be we end up not parking EVs next to ICE just as you don’t put a naked flame next to a combustible material, EVs appear less likely to spontaneously catch fire, but if they’re effectively set on fire, they can burn more ferociously.
And I think in essence, that’s the story.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I haven't been back to check verbatim, so this from memory.
That was raised in one of the YouTube comments (specifically for Tesla batteries which have some sort of "foam fill")
A comment-to-that-comment said that the heat of the fire would melt that, and create a void.
But ...
Wattsisname
MY Red/White/Gems
Just don't share the garage with a Range Rover.
There is a massive market for products associated with home garages in the USA. Are sprinkler or pressure foam systems available? Fire detection is great but fire prevention....
Hey ho! Something else to worry about; maybe take the mind off home invasion worries.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Of course it is quite possible the car park could have collapsed with just ICE vehicles we will never know. As I have mentioned ICE burn at up to 1000 degrees and steel loses 50% of its strength at only 500 degrees so who knows.
Wattsisname
MY Red/White/Gems
So then, Elon's team need to be looking at fire retardant/ suppression systems ( as indeed should carpark operators).
Success for Tesla in this regard could lead to the backhand compliment of:
"The EV least likly to catch fire"
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
We looked at putting sprinklers into our home, when we built it (6 or 7 years ago). The premise was that a small fire, e.g. white goods, would likely be extinguished by fire brigade before there was major loss ... but the collateral damage from the fire brigades water could render the house uninhabitable (whilst repairs took place) for many months.
We did not manage to find, in time, a system that was not "loaded", and the thinking was that a loaded system was more likely to have a false "event"!
I am still of the opinion that sprinklers, in the vicinity of a fire, would be likely to save the home in most cases - and quite possibly the lives of the escaping occupants
Our fire alarm is mains powered, rather than just some battery jobbies stuck on the ceiling, and definitely loud enough to wake a sound sleeper. it is also connected to the lighting system, and triggers all lights in the house come on to assist half-asleep, dazed, occupants fleeing the building.
We fitted an isolation circuit for the white goods, in utility room, as there have been repeated recalls of Washing machines and driers, over the years (including, on one occasion, I think?, a recall of the replacement units previously recalled <sigh>). So all white goods in our utility room are isolated from the mains when not in use - the switch is by the door, has a nice bright red neon on it, so if accidentally left on someone walking through is going to spot it
MrBadger
Badger out
And many car parks were not designed when the overweight vehicles that we have these days were common. Add that to cars being packed in tight. There are some hidden benefits of extra wide spaces.
I know this car park looks relatively new, but it’s going to depend on what weight loadings they used to determine structural specifications.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Opened 2019 ... but my source is Daily Fail! The company that built it went bust last month (also from Daily Fail!) [Edit: It also says Fire brigade urging Luton Airport to fit sprinklers in future car parks]
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Up to you, I'd like any lights that are working turned on in the middle of a night to enable the occupants to get out.
Yes. From this video --> It looks very likley that the next cars to catch fire were diesel or petrol.
BEVs and PHEVs make up about 3% of the cars on the road in the UK. It is a reasonable assumption that most of the cars in the car park had a fuel tank.
- “Running fuel fires due to failure of plastic fuel tanks in early stages of vehicle fires can be expected. It is estimated 85% of European vehicles are thought to have plastic fuel tanks.” (BRE Fire Spread in Car Parks BD2552 p.12).
I expect the official investigation will find that melting fuel tanks contributed to the spread of the fire. At Liverpool, fuel ran down the drainage system.
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Report on the Kings Dock carpark fire (Liverpool). -->. https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content...er/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf
"CCTV footage shows that the fire started in a vehicle on level 3. Attending fire crewsreported rapid lateral fire spread, running fuel fires, vertical fire spread from level oforigin and a “waterfall” of fire from the ceiling of level 3. It was initially thought that firespread was via the central ramps, but upon further investigation it is considered that the drainage system was the likely cause of vertical fire spread."
"Fire may spread beyond floor of origin. In the case of Kings Dock this was likely tohave been through the drainage system and failure of the ribbed slab floors in the early stages of the incident, although the geometry and central ramp design, combined with running fuel fires, certainly contributed later on. Running fuel fires, due to failure of plastic fuel tanks, in early stages of vehicle fires can be expected. It is estimated 85% of European vehicles have plastic fuel tanks."
"CCTV footage shows that the fire started in a vehicle on level 3. Attending fire crewsreported rapid lateral fire spread, running fuel fires, vertical fire spread from level oforigin and a “waterfall” of fire from the ceiling of level 3. It was initially thought that firespread was via the central ramps, but upon further investigation it is considered that the drainage system was the likely cause of vertical fire spread."
"Fire may spread beyond floor of origin. In the case of Kings Dock this was likely tohave been through the drainage system and failure of the ribbed slab floors in the early stages of the incident, although the geometry and central ramp design, combined with running fuel fires, certainly contributed later on. Running fuel fires, due to failure of plastic fuel tanks, in early stages of vehicle fires can be expected. It is estimated 85% of European vehicles have plastic fuel tanks."
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MrBadger
Badger out
Just spotted in promoted section of a website, But of a turn up for the books although I suspect the 85 dislikes were people still thinking it was an EV.
Full article.
www.dailymail.co.uk
And judging by comments, its not just EV's that Daily Fail readers have issues with!
Full article.
Luton airport inferno comes five years after Liverpool Land Rover fire
The blaze at Luton airport yesterday also comes six months after Land Rover recalled several models of the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport to address issues that could potentially lead to fires.
And judging by comments, its not just EV's that Daily Fail readers have issues with!
Its been discussed earlier in the thread..
Fire brigaide crew commander is quoted in this post, he does say "potentially" but it determined their course of action
Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire
I'd like to see a risk assessment for a new multi-strey car park and how it addresses the possibility of vehicle fires and preventing the spread. These fires are quite rare and maybe the relatively low risk to life means they don't/won't cost in an effective fire-suppression system? But...
teslamotorsclub.com
This post refers to gov publication talking about the extra challenges of dealing with EV fires
Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire
I'd like to see a risk assessment for a new multi-strey car park and how it addresses the possibility of vehicle fires and preventing the spread. These fires are quite rare and maybe the relatively low risk to life means they don't/won't cost in an effective fire-suppression system? But...
teslamotorsclub.com
A further article explaining EV fire challenges over petrol and diesel fires, it also acknowledges EV fires are less likely in the first place, but the point was they burn hotter
Electric vehicle fires are rare, but when they occur, they can be a nightmare - The Boston Globe
Though they often grab headlines, electric vehicle fires are less common than gas-powered car fires, one expert said.
www.bostonglobe.com
Looking forward to the first full-EV RRJust spotted in promoted section of a website, But of a turn up for the books although I suspect the 85 dislikes were people still thinking it was an EV.
View attachment 981569
Full article.
Luton airport inferno comes five years after Liverpool Land Rover fire
The blaze at Luton airport yesterday also comes six months after Land Rover recalled several models of the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport to address issues that could potentially lead to fires.
And judging by comments, its not just EV's that Daily Fail readers have issues with!
View attachment 981571
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Ah but that is also an anti EV argument. According to the Daily Mail EV's weigh twice as much as ICE cars
/sAnd as others have said supposedly the carpark was only 4 years old. but I am not sure you can make a carpark out of steel and design it not to collapse in a decent car fire. At the temperatures of car fires, even non EVs, Steel loses almost all of its strength. so it would be like trying to make a structure that you wanted to resist water out of cardboard.
Some Steel buildings try to get around this by cladding the key steel members in some form of insulation to protect them from heat but I see no evidence of that here based on the photos. Just lots of exposed steel.
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