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Luxury car tax petition

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by dan223, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. dan223

    dan223 Member

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  2. neilrlsmith

    neilrlsmith Member

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  3. JegElsker

    JegElsker Member

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  4. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    Surprising myself slightyl here, but I dont agree.
    If you can afford a car at this price, then paying a bit extra tax is not that much of a burden.

    What might be fairer though is to add say £10K/50KWH battery to the threshold, so a 100KWH battery vehicle would kick in £20,000 more than ICE.
    (this way you are paying the tax on the car not on the battery fuel store)
     
    • Like x 3
  5. neilrlsmith

    neilrlsmith Member

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    With respect, I don't agree with you not agreeing. It should be about rewarding pollution free driving not penalising higher earnings.
     
    • Like x 4
  6. GraemeS

    GraemeS Member

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    I think the issue here is this is not a motoring tax but a tax on people that have lots of money to spend on a nice car. So it doesn't matter if it's a super clean EV or a V12. I'm not desperate to pay more tax but I also find it difficult to argue with.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. dan223

    dan223 Member

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    The point is the government should be trying to motivate people to buy an EV. You lose have the grant if it’s over 40k. Since an EV equivalent is a lot higher than a petrol/diesel luxury car the limit should either be higher for an EV or ideally scrapped altogether to true and push more people towards EVs. In Norway there is no tax, not Vat and much more incentives and therefore has much higher uptake of EVs
     
  8. Jason71

    Jason71 Member

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    I kind of agree. I am sure pretty much everyone on here agrees that there ought to be some sort of incentives to buy electric cars due to the need to popularise them for the future health of the planet etc
    The question is what is the right level?

    Current incentives include:
    £3500 grant
    £500 OLEV grant
    100% first year write downs for companies
    16% BIK falling to 2% next year for company car drivers
    no fuel duty ( apart from VAT on electricity)
    0% loans in Scotland

    Though not everyone can take advantage of all of the above it is definitely not nothing BUT you do have to pay the same as everyone else:
    VAT on the purchase price
    ART VED (luxury car tax) based on the list price

    Is that fair? it's all a matter of perspective. I think a lot of ICE drivers would say its too much and they are subsidizing EV drivers too much.
    As you elude I think the thing that frustrates people here is that the initial purchase price of an electric car is higher than the equivalent ICE so you could get caught for an EV but not for an equivalently spec'ed ICE car, and unfortunately the entry level M3 is just the wrong side of that line which makes it doubly frustrating.
    I am pretty sure no one in government really considered that argument when putting the tax in place. In fact the way it just kicks in at 40K at 100% without any ramping, caveats or exemptions suggests to me that very little thought was put into it at all. It must have taken all of of 5 minutes to thrash out including the time taken to document it!
    An amendment such as you suggest is certainly probably more realistic than the idea of complete exemption.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Jason71

    Jason71 Member

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    An exemption was added for electric black cabs a year after the tax was introduced so maybe there is hope for an amendment / exemption for other EV's?
     
  10. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    That is the key point.

    This is meant to be a tax on luxury vehicles, yet for exactly the same level of luxury the EV driver pays it and the ICE driver does not.
    Even if you view it as a tax on having too much cash to spare, for a car with exactly the same monthly ownership costs, the EV will pay the tax but the ICE will not, because the ICE costs are loaded towards running cost while EV are loaded towards initial purchase price.

    To be fair, assuming this tax is a good idea in the first place, the threshold should be higher for EVs than ICEs.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. cezdoc

    cezdoc Member

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    I won't be signing.

    I'm still using roads, I'm still causing congestion, and there are still plenty of other EV incentives as listed by @Jason71 above.

    The current situation might even prompt manufacturers to offer more options below the £40K price point.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    its a bit knife-edge though.

    An EV that you can "drive anywhere" needs to be 200 mile range, and currently all?? of them are above Luxury price threshold. Your point about threshold based on battery size covers that of course ... but adds complexity.

    And not having incentives stops us getting to sustained transport / reduced emissions / pollution / health issues in a hurry.

    If the fuel tax escalator had been nudged up each year that would now be working in EV favour.

    But that apart all early adopter cash incentives go to rich barstewards like me ... and as that trickles down its the person at the bottom of the food chain who is left with a dirty diesel that, by then, has the highest road tax and fuel surcharge :(

    I am of course got the £7,500 handout, no congestion charge, I am not paying Fuel Duty for road maintenance, I charge at work with no BiK, and I got a 100% first-year-allowance capital write off.

    But that Luxury Tax is killing me ...

    Norway has > 50% of new cars are EVs ... I am sure if we achieved that there would be real, tangible, benefits for all in 10 years time

    I don't have an answer though ... trying to get my mucky mates to Go Green, before Government hands them a Wedge of cash, is like getting blood out of a stone ... notwithstanding that I have been lucky with all my Green Initiatives (e.g. spent money, payback looked awful, Oil price skyrocketed, payback solved :) ) so my Muck Mates are Green after-all - with Envy if not Eco
     
  13. M3winEVwin

    M3winEVwin Member

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    Signed. It is a no brainer. Every little help to accelerate the world to sustainable energy :)
     
    • Like x 2
  14. Beady3647

    Beady3647 Member

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    I've signed in support but I see others misgivings.
     
  15. Calisaar

    Calisaar Member

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    I think £40k is too low a bar, particularly since there is a premium to pay to go EV. I can get a Nissan Leaf over £40k if I choose enough options. Doesn't make it a luxury car.

    If the threshold had followed inflation since it's introduction on 1st April 2017 then the price I paid for my SR+ would not have been taxed (unless the 3.5k grant doesn't count)

    I signed it.
     
  16. goRt

    goRt Member

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    The VED threshold was in place before Tesla decided its pricing, that's where the issue should be addressed.
    Do you want a cheaper Tesla with all the good bits missing???
     
  17. Yev000

    Yev000 Member

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    EV should be exempt to promote change. Same as solar panels and anything else that helps to stop pollution.

    The argument "you can afford it" is a bit daft. It's about what the government wants to promote, not what some people can afford. This TAX is ultimately ill thought out since EVs are inherently more expensive.

    I'm not sure what it's trying to achieve anyway. So if you can afford a 40k car you should pay a bit more? Why would you want people buying less expensive cars? Surely VAT would take away much more if people were not aiming for under 40k to avoid the tax? Why would the Gov try to encourage people to spend less money? If they are in the market for a new car anyway, why not try and get them spend more? Better for the economy.

    Not sure how 40k tax would make people buy less cars, they would just buy less expensive ones in the same quantity. And if anything it promotes buying cheap second hand hybrid cars that emit just as much CO2 on motorways as a regular ICE car.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. LEE3

    LEE3 Member

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    My issue with this tax is for many people they can only justify buying these things due to the low runnings costs related to fuel savings. There’s no way I’d be considering dropping 40K on an ICE with all the associated running costs on top. So the initial purchase price doesn’t really tell the whole story in this instance.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. jsteele

    jsteele Member

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    I signed. Currently the only EVs available which are practical for long range trips are over 40k. It may not be a huge cost in the grand scheme of things, but I think it is important psychologically. Free tax and cheap charging are nice incentives to encourage people towards greener transport, especially for people like myself who have stretched to a Tesla.
     
  20. gangzoom

    gangzoom Member

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    #20 gangzoom, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    100% agree.

    What we should all be worried about is who is state of UK politics, watching this lot lie through their teeth, and try to pretend they know what life is like for those who weren't bought up living a life of privilege is sickening......I feel more connection between the Queen.and us plebs than these serial liars who haven't done a day of honest work in their lives.

    [​IMG]


    The really sad thing is JC is far too extreme the other way and I can see why Farage could well think he has a shot at been the next PM!!

    Scary times we live in, a petition about avoiding a luxury product tax is hardly going to get noticed by even the admin staff at Westminster!!
     

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