I thought it would be good to post this petition here to increase the votes.
Petition: Make it an offence to use an EV charging bay if not charging
Petition: Make it an offence to use an EV charging bay if not charging
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Petition: Make it an offence to use an EV charging bay if not charging
- Thread starter kelvin 660
- Start date
speedyranger74
Member
MrBadger
Badger out
I agree with the sentiment, but is it an offense to park at a petrol pump unless filling or paying? I'm guessing that the answer is that they are all on private property so it is up to the site to dictate conditions, which would equally apply to EV charging?
I feel like this is already enforcable
- Chargers in private carparks are subject to the carpark owners rules, and they're free to issue breach of contract penalties cars for being out of designated bays, in a disabled bay, etc, etc.
- Chargers on public roads can be enforced by the council in the same way as double yellows
I also feel like there is some nuance here
With DC charging bays, it would be unreasonable to abandon a car for hours when the charge will likely take 20-60 minutes. But what about an AC charger at a train station? Surely the intent is that you plug in, let it charge and it's done when you come back? You wouldn't take the train back to unplug it the moment the charge has finished? Nor would you sit at an AC charger for 8 hours? And what about an AC charger that is broken?
- Chargers in private carparks are subject to the carpark owners rules, and they're free to issue breach of contract penalties cars for being out of designated bays, in a disabled bay, etc, etc.
- Chargers on public roads can be enforced by the council in the same way as double yellows
I also feel like there is some nuance here
With DC charging bays, it would be unreasonable to abandon a car for hours when the charge will likely take 20-60 minutes. But what about an AC charger at a train station? Surely the intent is that you plug in, let it charge and it's done when you come back? You wouldn't take the train back to unplug it the moment the charge has finished? Nor would you sit at an AC charger for 8 hours? And what about an AC charger that is broken?
It is not an offense to park at a petrol pump unless filling or paying but you don’t get 12-14 parking bays in a car park to fill petrol - do you? The mechanics are different and equating both is like giving same time/preference for the arguments of both flat earth believers and the ellipsoid or circular believers.
Can we ban plug in hybrids as well... Sick of hybrids taking up a bay to charge the tiny battery, when there is really no need to do so
I feel like spamming 3.5/7kw AC chargers everywhere fixes this issue.. PHEVs work best when charging at home of course. And it would be nice if full EVs are considered the priority. Let's be honest, most PHEVs won't bother plugging in at public chargers
MrBadger
Badger out
Many petrol stations now have a sufficiently large shop area that they provide filling, charging and parking bays in close proximity to each other. Its not uncommon for someone to fill up, leave their car at the pump, then go off shopping for 10 minutes blocking the pump instead of moving their car to the parking spaces. So yes, for some, fuel pumps are treated as parking spaces, or possibly in their mind, parking spaces which have fuel pumps even though for most it is obvious that that is not the case.
Just had a quick look on some Scottish council sites and all of them state that parking in an EV bay when not charging will make you subject to a PCN.
I've actually seen this enforced at my local charging spot. I may have sniggered at the time
I've actually seen this enforced at my local charging spot. I may have sniggered at the time
What this needs is standardisation of charging indicators, etc on the outside of cars and/or charging equipment that can recognise and display prominently how long a car has been connected without charging.
It is too much to expect of parking attendants to understand the differences between cars, have to peer in the windows, etc. They need to be able to see at a glance - much like checking tickets - whether a car is charging, whether it had been charging and has stopped/failed, etc.
Right now, people can park without plugging in - they can easily be spotted & ticketed, but people also slyly plug in without activating a charge, and it's only superchargers that have the capability to impose idle fees. If the regulations aren't robust you'll just get people plugging in and pretending to charge, to take advantage of the larger spaces you often get for EVs.
I expect legislation will have to get updated to treat EV bays like disabled bays, in terms of consequences. It is complicated slightly I think when it comes to private land - I don't think councils can impose PCNs for disabled bays currently, so they wouldn't be able to do the same for EV bays.
It is too much to expect of parking attendants to understand the differences between cars, have to peer in the windows, etc. They need to be able to see at a glance - much like checking tickets - whether a car is charging, whether it had been charging and has stopped/failed, etc.
Right now, people can park without plugging in - they can easily be spotted & ticketed, but people also slyly plug in without activating a charge, and it's only superchargers that have the capability to impose idle fees. If the regulations aren't robust you'll just get people plugging in and pretending to charge, to take advantage of the larger spaces you often get for EVs.
I expect legislation will have to get updated to treat EV bays like disabled bays, in terms of consequences. It is complicated slightly I think when it comes to private land - I don't think councils can impose PCNs for disabled bays currently, so they wouldn't be able to do the same for EV bays.
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
Totally disagree with you here as the ratio of ICE vehicles (especially during a busy spell) is far higher than the amount of EV's.
Then you get the garages which are laid out in such a way that the vehicle behind can't get out until the one in front moves and they are doing their weekly shopping trip.
Back in the day I have queued many a time in a busy garage because people don't think of those behind them.
It also happens quite a lot on the HGV pumps. Drivers will pull in to get fuel and then make sure it takes them 15, 30 or even 45 minutes to fill up before they leave so that they can get their legal breaks in at the same time.
So yeah, I'd say it does need standardising across the board. But petrol stations will never do it because they rely on the money they make from the shop that they don't want to take a risk of alienating customers.
Also, as for the OP - I also feel that it IS fineable in most situations, its just not enforced.
Other chargers can also impose idle fees. I spoke to someone on Friday who had been hit with £30 worth for overstaying in Aberdeen. He certainly learned his lesson and came to pick up his car 5 minutes before it was due to complete charging
Quite a few of the councils in Scotland have overstay charges.A lot of the more recent chargers display the progress of a charge and even how much is left until the car is charged and I have seen parking wardens check these.
I agree that there need to be a standard either on the charger or on cars to allow people to easily see what's happening. I did see a car that had a sort of bar gauge display on its charge point - will google and get back to you - that made it really easy to see what was happening.
Edit: Hyundai Ioniq 5
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Idle fees won't stop ICE cars parking in EV charging bays... though they are good idea to stop EV's hogging chargers, once they have finished charging... For places like railway stations with slow chargers then I can see a daily rate should apply to generate funds to increase the amount of chargers.Other chargers can also impose idle fees. I spoke to someone on Friday who had been hit with £30 worth for overstaying in Aberdeen. He certainly learned his lesson and came to pick up his car 5 minutes before it was due to complete charging
Anyway the idea is to raise this issue to all drivers and discourage improper use.
Is it a offense to park in a disabled bay in a public car park? I really don't know but I suspect it's not, just like mother and child bays isn't the law. I know on a public road it can be, the bays are designated as such and therefore not displaying a disabled parking badge means you can't. In a public car park I believe it's a civil matter and falls into the realms of "not parking in accordance to the contract you have with the car park owner", just like some do you for not parking within a bay.
Even if disabled bays is the law, you don't need a law, you just need car park owners to write it into the terms of their contract for use of their car park, that must be how Tesla enforce overstay charges.
Even if disabled bays is the law, you don't need a law, you just need car park owners to write it into the terms of their contract for use of their car park, that must be how Tesla enforce overstay charges.
zoomer0056
Active Member
I think we can all agree that it's offensive. It's already regulated by the reactions of those being offended.
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Even if you do that, nothing preventing someone from setting the charging amps at 5A and staying for hours, when billed by the kWh...
People will always find a workaround...
The main problem is that even today, a car park with 200+ bays only has typically 2 EV charging bays... While BEVs/PHEVs now account for more than 20% of all new regs...
Chargers need to be ramped up fast.
Then when they will equip every single bay as an optional extra this will no longer be an issue...
