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First of all, things are relative. NG is much better than coal. Moving to NG from coal has lowered CO2 emissions over the last 10 years more than all renewables combined.
And increased methane emissions which are a more potent greenhouse gas in the short term. But over all it's probably better than coal.

I'm not saying we should ban NG, yet, but policies should be in place to strongly support renewables and grid storage. Tesla has shown that battery storage is better than NG peakers at supplying the most valuable types of electricity, FR and demand response. We should not be building any more peaker plants because they are outdated technology.
 
And increased methane emissions which are a more potent greenhouse gas in the short term. But over all it's probably better than coal.

I'm not saying we should ban NG, yet, but policies should be in place to strongly support renewables and grid storage. Tesla has shown that battery storage is better than NG peakers at supplying the most valuable types of electricity, FR and demand response. We should not be building any more peaker plants because they are outdated technology.

I agree. All of those suggestions are good ones and if they have merit, will be used amongst the general population. I'm just against the "they're oughta be a law!" approach that some take. It opens the door to corrupt elements and even worse, being wrong.
 
I completely agree with the notion that energy is a major issue but I don't think that the Democrats or governments are going to solve the problems.

The Democrats won't get in the way, and that IS saying a lot. The Republicans are trying to *subsidize coal* right now. They're talking about using *emergency military powers* to *force coal plants to keep burning coal* even when it's uneconomical. They are trying to get in the way as much as possible. Surely the solar panel tariff made that obvious...

If you don't care about that, maybe you care about democracy. The Republican Party has been actively trying to prevent people from voting, and to prevent their votes from being counted. Voter suppression is a real thing, and there's only one party doing it -- the Republicans. The abusive "voter ID" requirements are specifically designed to prevent poor people (with less access to money and time to handle paperwork) from voting. The Republicans have repeatedly tried to create very long lines in poor districts (by not having enough polling places or ballot boxes) while making it easy to vote in rich districts. This is all documented. Trump's now threatening to revoke the citizenship of naturalized citizens in an attempt to intimidate people into not voting.

While both parties have gerrymandered, only the Republicans went to court three times in Arizona to try to overturn a popular referendum banning gerrymandering -- and the Republicans tried to reinstate gerrymandering using court cases twice in Pennsylvania (after it was banned by the courts), and they've done the same in other states. When the people or the courts get rid of gerrymandering, Democrats go along with it.

Only the Republicans colluded with *actual Russian spies* to spread disinformation and hack the computers of their political opposition.
 
The Democrats won't get in the way, and that IS saying a lot. The Republicans are trying to *subsidize coal* right now. They're talking about using *emergency military powers* to *force coal plants to keep burning coal* even when it's uneconomical. They are trying to get in the way as much as possible. Surely the solar panel tariff made that obvious...

If you don't care about that, maybe you care about democracy. The Republican Party has been actively trying to prevent people from voting, and to prevent their votes from being counted. Voter suppression is a real thing, and there's only one party doing it -- the Republicans. The abusive "voter ID" requirements are specifically designed to prevent poor people (with less access to money and time to handle paperwork) from voting. The Republicans have repeatedly tried to create very long lines in poor districts (by not having enough polling places or ballot boxes) while making it easy to vote in rich districts. This is all documented. Trump's now threatening to revoke the citizenship of naturalized citizens in an attempt to intimidate people into not voting.

While both parties have gerrymandered, only the Republicans went to court three times in Arizona to try to overturn a popular referendum banning gerrymandering -- and the Republicans tried to reinstate gerrymandering using court cases twice in Pennsylvania (after it was banned by the courts), and they've done the same in other states. When the people or the courts get rid of gerrymandering, Democrats go along with it.

Only the Republicans colluded with *actual Russian spies* to spread disinformation and hack the computers of their political opposition.

As for the Republicans support of coal, it won't matter. Coal is dying no matter what they do. The market is bigger and stronger than the government. Except for money and war, the private sector has the upper hand over time.
 
So, you're now conceding that the WSJ article you called out in your prior post WAS honest? I hope so, because it was honest. Tesla has not requested any retraction or correction, they have simply added the Company's perspective in a press release of their own. Tesla was in fact invited to comment before the article's release, and Tesla's response was reflected in the original article:

"Tesla declined to comment on the specific memo. But it confirmed it is seeking price reductions from suppliers for projects, some of which date back to 2016, and some of which final acceptance many not yet have occurred. The company called such requests a standard part of procurement negotiations to improve its competitive advantage, especially as it ramps up Model 3 production."

I have no idea what "dozens" of headlines you took offense at, but let's agree that the WSJ in this case, reported some facts in a normal professional manner, without "dishonesty".

In addition to what mongo writes, WSJ also had statements in its article that made it seem like such negotiations were highly unusual and from a point of weakness. Both of those claims seem to be the opposite of the truth. Does the WSJ not know enough about business to get that part of the story right?
 
Where exactly are you seeing any signs of scared desperation?....... What am I missing? Who is scared?
@phil0909
may I simply suggest you visit recent Seeking Alpha articles. and read the comments sections.
there you will read fear desperation and such.
apologies if this answered post this answer, but they are desperate puppies:confused::)
 
The Democrats won't get in the way, and that IS saying a lot. The Republicans are trying to *subsidize coal* right now. They're talking about using *emergency military powers* to *force coal plants to keep burning coal* even when it's uneconomical. They are trying to get in the way as much as possible. Surely the solar panel tariff made that obvious...

If you don't care about that, maybe you care about democracy. The Republican Party has been actively trying to prevent people from voting, and to prevent their votes from being counted. Voter suppression is a real thing, and there's only one party doing it -- the Republicans. The abusive "voter ID" requirements are specifically designed to prevent poor people (with less access to money and time to handle paperwork) from voting. The Republicans have repeatedly tried to create very long lines in poor districts (by not having enough polling places or ballot boxes) while making it easy to vote in rich districts. This is all documented. Trump's now threatening to revoke the citizenship of naturalized citizens in an attempt to intimidate people into not voting.

While both parties have gerrymandered, only the Republicans went to court three times in Arizona to try to overturn a popular referendum banning gerrymandering -- and the Republicans tried to reinstate gerrymandering using court cases twice in Pennsylvania (after it was banned by the courts), and they've done the same in other states. When the people or the courts get rid of gerrymandering, Democrats go along with it.

Only the Republicans colluded with *actual Russian spies* to spread disinformation and hack the computers of their political opposition.

Some states (dominated by Democrats) have mandated that legislative district boundaries be drawn by non-partisan commissions under guidelines that district boundaries should be some existing barrier like a county line, major highway, or natural boundary (rivers, etc.) whenever possible. Washington State was among the first to do it and California essentially copied Washington's system for the last district redrawing.

The way the demographics workout today, Democrats are favored in elections with a completely level playing field in a majority of areas of the country as well as nationally. Back when they weren't, the Democrats did everything they could to put their thumb on the scale. Now that the Republicans are at a demographic disadvantage, they are doing everything they can to rig the system in their favor.

It probably won't happen until 2021, but if the Democrats get back both houses of Congress and the White House, I hope they pass a law mandating districts be drawn everywhere in the country based on criteria like Washington and California use and do something to encourage vote by mail nationally. Oregon was the first state to do vote by mail, but others have followed their lead, including Washington and it makes voting very easy. Where it has been adopted has only been in blue states because it's harder to suppress the vote in vote by mail elections and the states that have adopted it have become bluer.

My Republican father was in favor of a voter ID law for California (where he lives) until I explained to him all the abuses from that system and then he immediately did a 180. He may be conservative, but he's not racist and he was in favor of the Civil Rights Act.

The US does have a problem with vote tampering, but voter ID laws address the least common form of voter tampering while deliberately ignore the more common ways. Voter suppression is one way, but straight up hacking is another. There have been a number of articles like this coming out recently (though I saw stuff like this in 2002):
Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States

The odds that Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Florida legitimately are longer odds than winning Powerball. Same thing happens with Bush and down ballot GOP races in 2000, 2002, and 2004. Statistical analysis comparing exit poll data to actual results have found that the difference between exit polls and actual results in non-battleground states is less than 0.1%, but in some elections battleground state results have shifted towards the GOP candidate by about 1%, never the other way. The odds against that happening by chance are astronomical.

Electronic voting machines can be made secure. Nothing is completely unhackable, especially if someone can get physical access to the machine itself, but there are lots of ways it can be made extremely difficult. There are videos out there on how to hack a voting machine. With the devices in use in the US, many can be hacked in less than a minute if the hacker has a few easily made tools. Just make it more time consuming to get in and nobody will bother. Just like in person voter fraud is so rare. Why bother hijacking one vote when you can hijack hundreds or thousands in less time with less effort? A given voting machine is only going to record 100 votes or so. It isn't worth the effort if it take an hour a machine.

Would Democrats resort to dirty tricks if they found themselves in a similar position to the GOP today? At first maybe not, but they probably would after losing a few elections. That's why it's vital the next time the Democrats have power they lock things down so neither side can easily gin election results. I can live with fair election results, even if my favored candidate didn't win. I get steamed when one party is winning because they cheat. That isn't democracy.
 
Statistical analysis comparing exit poll data to actual results have found that the difference between exit polls and actual results in non-battleground states is less than 0.1%, but in some elections battleground state results have shifted towards the GOP candidate by about 1%, never the other way. The odds against that happening by chance are astronomical.

I think Democrats make an error when they blame Russians, voter fraud, etc for the loss in 2016. Even most are admitting that polling and specifically exit polls were wrong. Blaming Gerrymandering is not a complete explanation since Republicans own the Senate, most governorships, and state legislatures.

Opinion | The 2016 Exit Polls Led Us to Misinterpret the 2016 Election

"According to subsequent studies, those polls substantially underestimated the number of Democratic white working-class voters — many of whom are culturally conservative — and overestimated the white college-educated Democratic electorate, a far more culturally liberal constituency.

“The short answer is that the exit polls are wrong,” Matthew DeBell, a senior scholar at Stanford’s Institute for Research in the Social Sciences, emailed me. He continued:

In November 2016, 31.9 percent of adult US citizens had college degrees, according to the Current Population Survey. There were 138.8 million votes. To reach 50 percent of all voters, the turnout rate among college grads would have to have been 97 percent. This doesn’t pass the laugh test; no credible study has ever found turnout rates that high.

Perhaps most significant, a March 20 Pew Research Center public opinion survey found that 33 percent of Democratic voters and Democratic leaners are whites without college degrees. That’s substantially larger than the 26 percent of Democrats who are whites with college degrees — the group that many analysts had come to believe was the dominant constituency in the party."

The Democratic message in 2016 was wrong. They didn't see the economic angst in middle America among blue collar workers. This is why Bernie Sanders had such a strong showing. If the DNC hadn't cheated him in the primaries, he would have easily beat the buffoonish Donald Trump. Hell, even Joe Biden would have beaten Trump if Obama had supported him instead of HRC.
 
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When the nominations were settled Trevor Noah on the daily Show summed up how the general election was going to go. He congratulated the two parties on nominating the only candidates the other party could beat. This was the first time both major party candidates started out with negative approval ratings.

Bernie Sanders is pretty far out there on the left for a lot of Americans. The general election would have looked very different if Bernie had been the nominee, but it wouldn't have been any easier because of his political views.

The DNC did put their thumb on the scale a little bit in the primaries, but their effect was not that big. The people who vote in primaries are often more partisan than those in the general election and frequently the candidate the party wants to win wins the primaries because many who are voting are influenced by the party's wishes. Bernie was not only trying to unseat the presumptive nominee from day 1, but he was also an outsider who was just running as a Democrat because mounting an independent bid for the presidency is pretty much impossible. Mounting an insurgency campaign as an outsider to the party is always going to be an uphill battle because the party is going to try and push out the outsider as an interloper trying to hijack the party.

The Republicans failed to push out the interloper because they have been weakened by too much ideology and too much propaganda. The Democrats managed to stave off the interloper because the party is fundamentally stronger.

The Democratic Party have a strong and vocal cadre of women around Hillary's age who were on the cutting edge of the women's movement in the 60s and 70s who were very incensed in 2008 that a man came along and stole the nomination from a woman who was leading in the polls and they felt 2016 was finally Hillary's turn only to have another man upset things again. Those women turned out in the primaries to vote for Hillary.

There were far more shenanigans going on that stole the election for Donald Trump than stole the nomination for Hillary.

Trump got elected due to a constellation of factors. Republicans have done tricks to suppress the vote from populations that vote for Democrats, the Russians did interfere with the election in several ways, and the Democrats put up a bad candidate. I do think Hillary would have been an adequate president, though probably unpopular because she is not a very likeable person.

The Republicans don't dominate the Senate, they have a 51-49 majority. The way the Senate is structured and the way Republicans and Democrats are distributed favors the Republicans in the Senate. Republicans tend to be more rural than urban and there are more total states that are predominantly rural. In the last several presidential elections, the Republican has usually won more states, but the Democrat usually wins more of the high electoral vote states. Unless there was a constitutional amendment to change the way the Senate seats were allocated (which I don't see happening), the Republicans will retain a natural edge in Senate seats, even if gerrymandering was eliminated.

The Democratic Party has also made errors in abandoning the small town, white working class, who used to vote for them in large numbers. The social message for the Democrats may not sit all that well with that demographic, who tend to be fairly conservative Christians, but the economic and health care agenda of the Democrats should help them quite a bit. The message isn't really reaching them though.

The political problems in this country are neither 100-0 or 50-50. Both parties have problems, but the balance is around 70-30 or 80-20 and the problems caused on the Republican side are far more serious right now. There is nothing the Democrats have tried to do or talked about in decades that comes even remotely close to breaking the Constitution, but thanks to what the Republicans have been doing lately, the future of the Republic is now in doubt. That outweighs everything in my opinion because if the legal structure on which this country is built fails, a whole lot fails with it. When the house is on fire you don't worry about who's turn it was to do the dishes last night or even if your mate is having an affair.
 
I think Democrats make an error when they blame Russians, voter fraud, etc for the loss in 2016. Even most are admitting that polling and specifically exit polls were wrong. Blaming Gerrymandering is not a complete explanation since Republicans own the Senate,
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most governorships,
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and state legislatures.
Malapportioned

How many times do I have to point out that 10% of the US population lives in California, while essentially nobody lives in Wyoming? Comparing them as if they're equal is *undemocratic*.

I do agree that Hillary was the worst possible candidate for the Democrats to run in 2016. She was a god-awful campaigner, and I knew that from her NY Senate runs, where she only won because of the *extreme* weakness of the Republican candidates.
 
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The Democratic Party has also made errors in abandoning the small town, white working class, who used to vote for them in large numbers. The social message for the Democrats may not sit all that well with that demographic, who tend to be fairly conservative Christians, but the economic and health care agenda of the Democrats should help them quite a bit. The message isn't really reaching them though.
The reason the message isn't reaching them is Sinclair Media, which has bought up all the rural radio stations, turned them into right-wing talk radio, and sprays non-stop Republican propaganda out of them. The other reason is that Republicans have made sure the rural areas don't have broadband Internet. Maybe Musk can fix this with Starlink -- ASAP, I hope.

Though frankly even small towns vote Democratic now, Look at a precinct-level map, and look at something as small as Auburn, NY. The urban-rural split is overwhelming -- *every* urban area, even the *tiniest*, goes Democratic.
 
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How many times do I have to point out that 10% of the US population lives in California, while essentially nobody lives in Wyoming? Comparing them as if they're equal is *undemocratic*.

I do agree that Hillary was the worst possible candidate for the Democrats to run in 2016. She was a god-awful campaigner, and I knew that from her NY Senate runs, where she only won because of the *extreme* weakness of the Republican candidates.

The founding fathers had a solution for apportionment based on population size. It's called the House of Representatives. The Senate was't meant to be apportioned to the population size because it would act as a check on the House. To that point, Senators were to be voted in by state legislatures instead of popular vote. At least until the 17th Amendment. I don't see how this intent of the Founding Fathers isn't clear. No matter how much you would prefer that CA and NY run the country, it just wasn't intended. I'm writing this even though I have lived in SF, CA my entire life as a liberal.

Senate | United States government

"The role of the Senate was conceived by the Founding Fathers as a check on the popularly elected House of Representatives. Thus, each state, regardless of size or population, is equally represented. Further, until the Seventeenth Amendment of the Constitution (1913), election to the Senate was indirect, by the state legislatures. They are now elected directly by voters of each state."

U.S. Senate: The Senate and the United States Constitution

"During the summer of 1787, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia established equal representation in the Senate and proportional representation in the House of Representatives. Called the “Great Compromise” or the “Connecticut Compromise,” the unique plan for congressional representation resolved the most controversial aspect of the drafting of the Constitution."
 
The reason the message isn't reaching them is Sinclair Media, which has bought up all the rural radio stations, turned them into right-wing talk radio, and sprays non-stop Republican propaganda out of them. The other reason is that Republicans have made sure the rural areas don't have broadband Internet. Maybe Musk can fix this with Starlink -- ASAP, I hope.

Though frankly even small towns vote Democratic now, Look at a precinct-level map, and look at something as small as Auburn, NY. The urban-rural split is overwhelming -- *every* urban area, even the *tiniest*, goes Democratic.

It wouldn't be that most of their jobs have been sent offshore, the cost of living has been soaring, and their kids have been sent to die in illegal wars?

The reason they went for Trump isn't because he was Republican or because Sinclair sent out propaganda. If that was the case, McCain or Romney would have won before. Many of these blue collar workers in rural America voted for Obama. Twice.

They voted for Trump in 2016 to throw (in the words of Michael Moore) a molotov cocktail into the establishment of both parties.

The faster that Democrats understand this point the better. Of course, they can win back all of these voters but claiming Russia stole the election to take the spotlight off of Hillary and the DNC's failed strategy won't work.
 
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The reason the message isn't reaching them is Sinclair Media, which has bought up all the rural radio stations, turned them into right-wing talk radio, and sprays non-stop Republican propaganda out of them. The other reason is that Republicans have made sure the rural areas don't have broadband Internet. Maybe Musk can fix this with Starlink -- ASAP, I hope.

Though frankly even small towns vote Democratic now, Look at a precinct-level map, and look at something as small as Auburn, NY. The urban-rural split is overwhelming -- *every* urban area, even the *tiniest*, goes Democratic.

Sinclair is just the latest iteration of the seizure of wide swaths of the media by conservatives. A handful of companies like Clear Channel started buying up AM channels right and left as soon as the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated and they have continued to gobble up media in every market since then. Rush Limbaugh became the biggest thing on talk radio in the 90s because the owners of his network made sure he was on in every market, even very liberal ones. There were some attempts at liberal talk radio, but it largely got squeezed out because they didn't have the financial backing to get on the air in enough markets. Rachel Maddow started out on the biggest of them.

I saw an analysis of how the elimination of the fairness Doctrine had impacted the US's radio market around 2000. They pointed out that Eugene, OR, a small city that is very liberal, but a college town (University of Oregon). I forget the number, but basically the AM band was saturated with conservative talk radio and most of the rest were owned by one conservative company or another.

Sinclair has taken it one step further requiring their local news to essentially parrot Fox in every market.

The founding fathers had a solution for apportionment based on population size. It's called the House of Representatives. The Senate was't meant to be apportioned to the population size because it would act as a check on the House. To that point, Senators were to be voted in by state legislatures instead of popular vote. At least until the 17th Amendment. I don't see how this intent of the Founding Fathers isn't clear. No matter how much you would prefer that CA and NY run the country, it just wasn't intended. I'm writing this even though I have lived in SF, CA my entire life as a liberal.

Senate | United States government

"The role of the Senate was conceived by the Founding Fathers as a check on the popularly elected House of Representatives. Thus, each state, regardless of size or population, is equally represented. Further, until the Seventeenth Amendment of the Constitution (1913), election to the Senate was indirect, by the state legislatures. They are now elected directly by voters of each state."

U.S. Senate: The Senate and the United States Constitution

"During the summer of 1787, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia established equal representation in the Senate and proportional representation in the House of Representatives. Called the “Great Compromise” or the “Connecticut Compromise,” the unique plan for congressional representation resolved the most controversial aspect of the drafting of the Constitution."

Back when both parties were run by sane people who put the needs of the country first, having one house of Congress balanced to the rural minority had a voice was not such a bad thing. When the Constitution was ratified the US still had a majority of the population living in rural areas, but that shifted dramatically over time and now a majority lives in urban, or on the edge of urban areas. Today about 20% of the US population lives in rural areas.

The needs and problems of rural areas are different from urban areas. One example was what led to the Rural Electrification Act in the 1930s. It was partially a jobs program, but it also got the rural areas to favor Roosevelt because it brought electricity to rural areas where it wasn't economically feasible for electric companies to run power lines.

As @neroden pointed out, the same problem exists today for broadband internet in many rural parts of the country, though that isn't the sole reason the rural areas vote Republican. Eastern Washington is significantly more conservative than the Western part, but large parts of Eastern Washington have some of the fastest internet in the country thanks to the Bonneville Power Administration that runs the dams on the Columbia River. The BPA put in a hefty internet backbone along the same towers used to transmit power in the 90s and when it became clear they overbuilt for their needs, they opened up leasing bandwidth to commercial and private use.

Because of the cheap power and great internet a number of data centers moved in. Google has a huge center near Hood River, OR. Crypto currency mining is also becoming a big business in that area.

It wouldn't be that most of their jobs have been sent offshore, the cost of living has been soaring, and their kids have been sent to die in illegal wars?

The reason they went for Trump isn't because he was Republican or because Sinclair sent out propaganda. If that was the case, McCain or Romney would have won before. Many of these blue collar workers in rural America voted for Obama. Twice.

They voted for Trump in 2016 to throw (in the words of Michael Moore) a molotov cocktail into the establishment of both parties.

The faster that Democrats understand this point the better. Of course, they can win back all of these voters but claiming Russia stole the election to take the spotlight off of Hillary and the DNC's failed strategy won't work.

Where we live is like on the Schwartzchild radius of a black hole. We're on the edge of the Portland metro area on the Washington side of the Columbia River (I can see Oregon from my house! :D), which is very, very liberal. It's not unusual for Congressional races in Portland to go 80%+ Democrat. And just to the east of us is the most conservative part of Washington State.

Our county voted for Obama twice and just barely went for Hillary Clinton (by less than a percent), but our Congressional district is held by a Republican and the overall district is around R+5. The district to the east of us is R+25 (I believe).

Our county has a strong economy with some high tech and a lot of people who live in this county work in Portland. A lot of people fled Portland in part to get away from the politics that are too liberal and in part because this county has far better schools than Portland. This county is conservative, but more libertarian conservative than social conservative. I have yet to run into anyone who has anything good to say about Donald Trump. Racism exists around here, but they are a minority and keep quiet about it unless they think they have a sympathetic audience.

Someone started putting up "Be Bold Vote Republican" signs around the area and I've seen a couple defaced already. One had swastikas drawn on it, I couldn't make out what alterations were done to the other one (I was on the freeway).

As you get away from Portland, this Congressional district becomes much more conservative in every way. My SO did appeals on criminal cases in the county to the north of us for a while and she saw some bone chilling racism. One Hispanic guy who was represented by a Hispanic lawyer was asked by the lawyer during jury selection how many potential jurors would be inclined to vote against his client because his was Hispanic. Some people raised their hand. He then asked how many would be inclined to vote against his client because his lawyer was Hispanic, even more raised their hands. And this was nearly 20 years ago.

One of my theories about the growth of racism has to do with the changing demographics of communities. The urban areas in the US have had large non-white populations for a long time. When the non-whites started coming in there was a lot of racism, but the whites in those cities who didn't leave found out non-white people are just people too. Then after the white flight of the 50s and 60s, the suburbs became more non-white and they went through the same dynamic. Now the rural areas are getting more non-white and in some cases whites there have been fleeing the non-whites for decades.

As non-whites move into these areas the whites get scared they will lose their identity to the non-whites.

I grew up a minority in an inner suburb of Los Angeles. My town was on the border of East LA which, at the time, was the second largest concentration of Mexicans in the world. My town was heavily Asian (mostly Japanese-Americans) when I was born and became more Asian as I grew up. It was over 60% Asian when I moved away. Until college I never went to a school that was more than 15% white.

I was not a popular kid, but it was due to other factors than being white. One of the most popular kids in my class in two different schools I went to was a white kid (we changed schools the same year). Ethnicity wasn't really an issue. When we had a big influx of immigrants from Taiwan starting around 6th grade, there was a lot of tension, but the Asians who were born there had the same issues with the immigrants everyone else did.

So I see non-white people and I see people. I always thought Martin Luther King's thing about dreaming his kids would be judged on their character than the color of their skin was always a "duh" for me. But I lived in an environment where I learned from an early age that non-white people are not "other" and dangerous, but are just people. There are some people who are dangerous, but my caution receptors don't go off based on skin color, it's more about age, gender, and number.

I go on alert when I see groups of teenage males who are messing around. The last two times it happened both groups were 100% white and in neither case were they really dangerous. It's just when I was a teenager when groups of males started getting mischievous there was a good chance I was about to get bullied so I still have a trigger. I'm aware of it and don't do anything about it, but I still go on alert.

When I was at Boeing I worked with a woman who had grown up in rural North Dakota. She said she never even saw a non-white person except on TV until she went to college. She was very happy to be an urban animal and was politically very liberal, but she understood that environment.

Humans are naturally xenophobic and another ethnic group is an "other" until people get to know them, then they cease to be "other". Today the divide is more along skin color lines, but it was once divided between ethnic groups from Europe. My father grew up in an all white town in Michigan (Muskeagon) in the 1920s and 30s and there was tons of ethnic tension between the Germans, Swedish, Norwegians, Italians, etc. When some of my ancestors came to the US (Irish) the mostly English descended majority referred to them as "white n***ers".

The African-American/white divide in the South and to some extent elsewhere is one divide we have been unable to conquer. It goes back to the colonial period.
 
The founding fathers had a solution for apportionment based on population size. It's called the House of Representatives. The Senate was't meant to be apportioned to the population size because it would act as a check on the House. To that point, Senators were to be voted in by state legislatures instead of popular vote. At least until the 17th Amendment. I don't see how this intent of the Founding Fathers isn't clear.
The Founding Fathers also intended for the country to be half free and half slave. And for the slaveowning voters in places with lots of slaves to have more power than voters in all-free places.

That led to the Civil War. The Radical Republicans fixed that after the Civil War.

And the state legislatures don't elect Senators any more. There probably should be representatives of the state governments in Congress, but there aren't. So much for the Founders' ideas. We changed that too.

I should also point out that at the time of the Founding, it was understood that the highest-population states would break up and add new states. Four or five states were carved out of Virginia territory, including Kentucky, Tennessee, and Illinois, if I remember correctly. Maine was carved out of Massachusetts later, though that was due to slave state/free state gerrymandering.

There was never at the time of the Founding a disparity as big as the California-Wyoming disparity, where Wyoming voters have *68 times as much power* as California voters. If there had been, it would have needed to be fixed.

The Founding Fathers are not gods. They created a compromise which worked at the time. It is now failing. Time for a new compromise.
 
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It wouldn't be that most of their jobs have been sent offshore, the cost of living has been soaring, and their kids have been sent to die in illegal wars?
No, it wouldn't be. I was talking about the MESSAGE not reaching them.

THE MESSAGE -- Bernie Sanders's message, the New Deal message -- is exactly and precisely about trying to reverse that. And the message isn't reaching them because of right-wing propaganda control of the airwaves in rural areas. Got it?

Specifically, in the quote I was responding to...

...the economic and health care agenda of the Democrats should help them quite a bit. The message isn't really reaching them though.
The Democrats have an anti-war message as well. The Democratic economic agenda is to bring good jobs back and the Democratic health care agenda will cut the cost of living... but will you hear that on Sinclair Media? Nope.
 
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