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The Democrats are far from perfect, but their problems are the politics as usual type problems rather than treason in spirit if not by law (the US Constitution has a very narrow definition of treason and Trump has not technically crossed that line because the US is not at war with Russia). I don't like the idea of effectively a one party (Democrats) state while the right rebuilds, but the first task when the ship gets torpedoed is saving the ship. Worry about making it to port next.
Don't be too concerned about a one-party state -- one party had total control of government in the US from 1800 to 1828 (including enough control to amend the Constitution and add new states unilaterally) and it was fine. It's called the "Era of Good Feeling". (This sort of gets glossed over in history books...)

The important point was that they respected the principles of democracy. Just like Scotland has one-party government by the SNP, and it's fine, because they respect democratic elections. (They're just way way more popular than all the other parties.)
 
My personal preference would be that the Democrats become the right-wing party that they so desperately want to be (on a global scale they already are a center party with some strong center-right elements), replacing the Republicans as the American right-wing party, and that we have a party like the Democratic Socialists of America to counterbalance them.
 
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The Republican party has expelled anyone who can think for themselves. Trump's approval within the party is 80%, largely because those who don't like him have been shown the door. The GOP is well on its way towards becoming a fascist party. The "corpratists" are the least of our problems at this point. Whether the constitution is going to hold up is the biggest issue.
The Republican Party is indeed clearly an authoritarian party which hates democracy. Whether it's fascist is an open question, since it seems to be lacking any of the virtues of the fascists -- it doesn't invest in infrastructure, for example, and the trains don't run on time.

The main concern is, indeed, whether democracy itself will survive. We already face a monumental fight to re-establish the Bill of Rights, which is being trampled (particularly the all-important Fourth Amendment).

In 20 years the US might be much more progressive than it is now due to the Millennials coming into middle age, but right now, the middle age people are Gen X who are somewhat more conservative and it's a reality people need to deal with.
This is a false and incorrect demographic analysis.

I'm technically "Gen X". Gen X is a misnomer: it covers two wildly different groups of people. There's a sharp demographic change; it happened at different years for different people, but it centers areound the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. Before that, each birth year was more Republican than the last; after that, each birth year has been more Democratic than the last.

The older group are the group who got more right-wing over time and supported Reagan, leading to the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. The younger group are more left-wing every birth year and are a lot more like the Millennials politically -- I'm in it. This later half is better known as the "Oregon Trail Generation", after the computer game -- there are several articles about us, and the key feature is that we can do things both without computers and with them -- older people are uncomfortable with computers, younger people are uncomfortable without them, we span both worlds. (Musk is one of us.)

People born in the late 1970s may be on either side of this gaping divide between GenX and Oregon Trail Generation, which is also a massive social divide. Oregon Trail Generation folks have similar social assumptions to post-Millenials and wildly different assumptions from the older GenX. (I've been trying to figure out why the social divide is so sharp, and I think part of it is that the Oregon Trail Genreration is the first generation to grow up with gender and racial integration as an assumed background.)

But anyway, the right-wing tendency in *both halves*, the older GenX and the younger Oregon Trail generation, is *libertarian*. It is *not* authoritarian. And the current Republican Party is *extremely* authoritarian, and as such has *severely* alienated both the GenX and Oregon Trail generations. (The rewriting of the rules of the RNC to make sure Ron Paul supporters never ever had a chance to do anything again... the Republican activists remembered that.)

Oregon Trail Generation voters will happily vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too establishment), and GenX voters will vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too "big government") just to repel the authoritarian election-stealers in the Republican Party. She has a bit of a cult status for protecting verifiable paper ballot voting in California, and she should campaign on that.

The demographics, unfortunately, mean that that peak-Republican birth year of 1974... is also the middle of the Baby Bust. Lowest birth year population around. There just aren't very many of us in the Oregon Trail Generation or in GenX. We're fundamentally waiting for enough of the much older generations to die off and enough post-Millennials to turn 18 for the Millennials and post-Millennials to outnumber the Baby Boom and pre-Baby Boom generations. Opposition to Republican authoritarianism among post-Millennials is at staggeringly high levels, levels which no party can survive.
 
My personal preference would be that the Democrats become the right-wing party that they so desperately want to be (on a global scale they already are a center party with some strong center-right elements), replacing the Republicans as the American right-wing party, and that we have a party like the Democratic Socialists of America to counterbalance them.
Duverger's Law means we have to have the Republicans shrink to insignificance *first*. History says the Democrats would probably split into two after the Republicans became irrelevant.

And hopefully, pass proportional representation for the House of Representatives so we can avoid Duverger's Law.
 
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Did you use the word genuine? Oh, I know what you are referring to - I think the quote is closer to:
Learn to fake sincerity and you can get elected to most any political position.

At least half the people (this would be the half that actually bother to vote) fall for this sincerity thing which is why we go from Republican to Democrat and back. All those enlightened voted for a blackman and then they all turned racist and voted to a Rich New Yorker Developer - is that what you believe?
Let me see
- King George wasn't going to be the world's policeman (perhaps bombing everyone isn't quite the same)
- Obama was going to change things and close Gitmo.
- Trump said wasting all that money on war in the Middle East had to stop. Really really stupid.

I see genuine. that's it. [suspect they are ALL puppets and we don't pay them enough to work for us]

I think you're ascribing some political motivation to my comments. I'm just making observations on what I think the American voter will do given the trends and rhetoric out there.
 
My personal preference would be that the Democrats become the right-wing party that they so desperately want to be (on a global scale they already are a center party with some strong center-right elements), replacing the Republicans as the American right-wing party, and that we have a party like the Democratic Socialists of America to counterbalance them.

The Democrats are right wing? You sure about that?
 
OK, makes sense.

Both parties are basically a disaster at this point.

For good reasons. They've both sold out the country and profited from it.

I don't pretend to know how we can fix this but the progressive wing is gaining momentum in the Democratic party and maybe a libertarian/isolationist wing is gaining some power with Trump.

I wish Sanders won the primary because we would really see a difference in these ideologies. It looks like we'll have to wait until 2020.

But ridding the establishment of both parties is a good thing long term, IMO.
 
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The Democrats are right wing? You sure about that?
YES, especially since Clinton's moved Democrats to take corporate money. Now both parties bought and paid for by the same companies. BOTH support the wars, both can't give the Military/Security/Surveillance Industrial complex enough money. example? who is a democratic PEACE candidate?
Vietnam - Pentagon Papers started in 1945 giving $50 million to the French to take back colony.
I think we got kicked out 1974 (google) almost 30 years.
Afghanistan - 1979 Brzezinski/Carter start training Osama bin Laden and we are still there ~ 40 years
Iraq 1991 with first Bush and we are still there.
Cuba - we still have a base at Gitmo
You get the idea, right?
how about Germany and Japan?
ALL Goldman Sachs people in the Treasury, Federal Reserve no matter which part in office - get it??
 
I agree with most of what you said but I don't think Trump was about conservatism. Midwest voters chose Trump to be anti-establishment and not because he was conservative. Look at Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 11/9 trailer.

To me, Kamala Harris wouldn't stand a chance either but not because she's too progressive but because she would be the establishment (DNC in this case) candidate and completely inauthentic.

The next Democratic candidate to win the presidency will have to be an anti-establishment candidate and a genuine progressive.

I believe you said you live in the Bay Area? It's easy to project what we see around us as being the mood of the entire nation, but the US is made up of a patchwork of different cultures with different cultural values. One of the moderators recommended American Nations a couple of years ago and I found it eye opening. It explains why I find more cultural kinship with Vancouver, BC than I do with most of America outside the west coast. Culturally Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, BC, and the Bay Area share more common values than any of those cities and Nashville or Dallas.

There are parts of the country that are very ready for a progressive president, but most of the country is not ready yet. The reason Kamala Harris doesn't stand a chance is because most of the country sees her as too progressive, not too little. Whether that is an accurate assessment or not, that is how most of the country sees her and people like her.

In the long term, it won't matter because demographics (as you point out) will make more of a difference than anything else.

I see Trump as a reverse Jimmy Carter who'll open the door for a more progressive candidate with his failure just as Carter opened the door for the more conservative Reagan with his

There is a political theory that I came across lately of phases of American history called the Party Systems. The first system was from the Constitution coming about to around 1824. There is debate whether the 5th system started in 1932 and ended with Reagan, or whether it is still going. I think Reagan was the start of a new system.

The party systems seem to break down near the end and a new leader comes along with new ideas and takes American politics in a new direction. When I was a kid my father used to complain that there were Democrats who hadn't had a new idea since Roosevelt and I could say the same about many Republicans today and Reagan. The legacy of the starter of a party system tends to exist long after that person is out of office.

I can't unscramble much of the discussion above since I'm not an Americanist.

In the first class I taught about political philosophy I was asked to define conservative and liberal. My first stab was "Conservatives like to keep things worth keeping. Liberals what to change things worth changing. If there were a science of politics, they would be arguing only about tactics." Nearly six decades later, many wars, at least three high profile assassinations, and many trillions lost since Reagan started getting government "off our backs," my views have hardened.

The terms have been thrown around so much they have lost meaning. Different people would draw the lines differently. Some people would call Nancy Pelosi one of the most liberal people in the world, but she's actually fairly moderate, especially by international standards.

In other words Madison noted in Federalist 51, constitutions and political theorists try to achieve a reconciliation between two logically contradictory goals, freedom and order. The ying and yang principle of Asian thinking and Hegel's first law coincide: the unity of opposites. Political parties struggle over accommodating these contradictory goals over who gets what when and how in what we very loosely call democracies. Given the notion that money is everything supposedly at the heart of capitalist society, and the assumption one must always compete for it, politics now can be defined as the struggle for control over peoples' picture of reality. That was what I was saying in a souped-up version of Government 1 by the 70s.

At about the same time I was teaching Robert Bellah et al. who argued the founders were immersed in either the teachings of their Judeo-Christian heritage or were civic republicans, the assumption being they had an ethical vocabulary in which they could consider the public good and the dangers of private interest and factions, etc. Now we are only out for ourselves. And the worse things get the more desperate we yearn for a solution. Our solution, and quick! Thus American individualism, for all its creative vigor eventually reached its logical breaking point as Philip Slater noted in The Pursuit of Loneliness. Now we have become a breeding ground of, by, and for fascists. A wet dream for nihilists like Putin.

How might we recapture the vision of the founders?

The founders both had personal experience from the revolution and many were very well versed in the classics. Nobody alive today has the former and only a handful of people have the latter.

Our courts and legal scholars debate the Constitution and suggest they know what they meant in terms more varied and complicated for my simple mind. As I’ve suggested at the start of this thread, the answer of the founders is clearly stated in the Constitution’s Preamble. Now and all future elections every candidate, both parties, should be asked their views about problems of the day in light of:

How do they help to form a more perfect union? How do they establish justice? How do they insure domestic tranquillity? How do they provide for the common defense? How do they promote the general welfare? How do they secure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and our posterity?

How does beating up on allies, adversaries, women, Mother Earth, young people, ethnic minorities, immigrants, children, separating families, mocking the disabled, excoriating the FBI. the Justice Department, denigrating a free press fit into such a campaign? I’m a non-believer so can’t label Trump the anti-Christ, but he’s at least the anti-Constitution, Steve Bannon’s ego toy.

You think fascism is too harsh? As Elon might say, bite me. We need fundamental change.

I see those who call themselves conservatives and go to extremes are trying to recreate a past heyday when "we" were great. Trump's campaign slogan is right in that wheelhouse. For the American right, that's going back to a fictional version of the the 1950s. For fascist Italy of the 1920s-40s it was the new Roman Empire. For Germany it was some classical Norse fantasy perpetuated by Wagner. Erdowan in Turkey wants to bring back the Ottoman Empire and the list goes on.

The big figures of history are mostly artifacts of their time. The conditions and mood of at least a big enough faction of the public brought them to the fore. Hitler would have gotten nowhere if Germany hadn't been dealing with the chaos from the Versailles Treaty and trying to establish the Weimar Republic. The economic chaos was the worst part of it.

Trump came about in part from the real reality that white men without a college degree are less and less needed by our economy and whites in general are headed towards minority status. The right wing media in this country has stoked those issues to get those people to vote for Republicans. It was a calculated result by those in the Republican Party to advance their vision of the good principles of the conservative movement which include limited government and strong personal liberty. People like Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson thought that was what they were bringing about helping get Republicans elected.

It was already somewhat hijacked by Republicans who just wanted to keep power and weren't really thinking very far ahead as well as the Deep South types who wanted to create their vision of the country which looks a lot like Apartheid in South Africa or the caste system in India looked like. With the Deep South leaders on top of course.

But all this stoking the flames with the right wing media teed up Donald Trump. He was the logical conclusion of all their ridiculous banter and he grabbed control of the party away from those who have been working a bait and switch on their constituents since the 1980s.

But IMO he had mortally wounded the Republican Party in the process.

Don't be too concerned about a one-party state -- one party had total control of government in the US from 1800 to 1828 (including enough control to amend the Constitution and add new states unilaterally) and it was fine. It's called the "Era of Good Feeling". (This sort of gets glossed over in history books...)

The important point was that they respected the principles of democracy. Just like Scotland has one-party government by the SNP, and it's fine, because they respect democratic elections. (They're just way way more popular than all the other parties.)

That was the time of the First Party System.
First Party System - Wikipedia

I hope the Democrats will do a good job. I do think they will be fine at least at first because they have become hyper about ethics in response to GOP corruption.

The Republican Party is indeed clearly an authoritarian party which hates democracy. Whether it's fascist is an open question, since it seems to be lacking any of the virtues of the fascists -- it doesn't invest in infrastructure, for example, and the trains don't run on time.

The main concern is, indeed, whether democracy itself will survive. We already face a monumental fight to re-establish the Bill of Rights, which is being trampled (particularly the all-important Fourth Amendment).

Fascism is a complex subject with many definitions:
Definitions of fascism - Wikipedia

The GOP has become radically nationalistic and lives in a separate reality from the rest of the world. Whatever you want to name it, it's very dangerous IMO.

This is a false and incorrect demographic analysis.

I'm technically "Gen X". Gen X is a misnomer: it covers two wildly different groups of people. There's a sharp demographic change; it happened at different years for different people, but it centers areound the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. Before that, each birth year was more Republican than the last; after that, each birth year has been more Democratic than the last.

The older group are the group who got more right-wing over time and supported Reagan, leading to the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. The younger group are more left-wing every birth year and are a lot more like the Millennials politically -- I'm in it. This later half is better known as the "Oregon Trail Generation", after the computer game -- there are several articles about us, and the key feature is that we can do things both without computers and with them -- older people are uncomfortable with computers, younger people are uncomfortable without them, we span both worlds. (Musk is one of us.)

People born in the late 1970s may be on either side of this gaping divide between GenX and Oregon Trail Generation, which is also a massive social divide. Oregon Trail Generation folks have similar social assumptions to post-Millenials and wildly different assumptions from the older GenX. (I've been trying to figure out why the social divide is so sharp, and I think part of it is that the Oregon Trail Genreration is the first generation to grow up with gender and racial integration as an assumed background.)

But anyway, the right-wing tendency in *both halves*, the older GenX and the younger Oregon Trail generation, is *libertarian*. It is *not* authoritarian. And the current Republican Party is *extremely* authoritarian, and as such has *severely* alienated both the GenX and Oregon Trail generations. (The rewriting of the rules of the RNC to make sure Ron Paul supporters never ever had a chance to do anything again... the Republican activists remembered that.)

Oregon Trail Generation voters will happily vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too establishment), and GenX voters will vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too "big government") just to repel the authoritarian election-stealers in the Republican Party. She has a bit of a cult status for protecting verifiable paper ballot voting in California, and she should campaign on that.

The demographics, unfortunately, mean that that peak-Republican birth year of 1974... is also the middle of the Baby Bust. Lowest birth year population around. There just aren't very many of us in the Oregon Trail Generation or in GenX. We're fundamentally waiting for enough of the much older generations to die off and enough post-Millennials to turn 18 for the Millennials and post-Millennials to outnumber the Baby Boom and pre-Baby Boom generations. Opposition to Republican authoritarianism among post-Millennials is at staggeringly high levels, levels which no party can survive.

Where people draw the lines for generations is different because the groups are different based on what you're looking at. You mention the Oregon Trail generation as one dividing line. I've noticed another right around those born in 1955. I've noticed most of those born before struggle a lot with learning computers at all while those born in 1955 and later are much more likely to be able to figure out computers. Those born in 1955 were among the first people to encounter programmable calculators in the early 70s.

I've seen people divide the Boomers into at least two groups, early and late. People like Hillary Clinton who is an early Boomer think differently than late Boomers like Barack Obama. I was born in the mid-60s and by most measures I'm an early GenXer. I can relate to what you're saying. I saw a rather sharp demarcation between my year in school and the year before mine. I got along better with the older kids, but probably because I'm more like a very late Boomer than a GenXer. My parents were older (born in 1920 and 1925) and my only sibling was born in the 50s. So my home environment was more like a Boomer kid's household than a GenXer household.

I went through most of high school and college during the Reagan years and saw just how radically different youth culture was than it was when my sister was the same age. She was in college at the end of the Vietnam War era. My sister found college culture way too liberal for her tastes (my family were Eisenhower Republicans) and I found the campus environment of the 80s way too conservative.

There has not been a Gen X president, and it's possible there never will be one, but much of the more extremist political leadership are early Xers, born before 1974 as you pointed out. Paul Ryan is the perfect example of this group. He has wanted to completely revamp the taxing and budget since he joined Congress.
 
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Both parties have basically destroyed the "higher" education system in the US. Where else does higher education cost so much and people learn so little? (motivated people learn in spite of college now day, right?) Student debt rivals credit card debt??? good luck (I know people in their 50s still paying for school loans - how is that possible??) China economy now size of US? right? Trending to double US economy in less than 20 years?
 
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The Republican Party is indeed clearly an authoritarian party which hates democracy. Whether it's fascist is an open question, since it seems to be lacking any of the virtues of the fascists -- it doesn't invest in infrastructure, for example, and the trains don't run on time.

The main concern is, indeed, whether democracy itself will survive. We already face a monumental fight to re-establish the Bill of Rights, which is being trampled (particularly the all-important Fourth Amendment).


This is a false and incorrect demographic analysis.

I'm technically "Gen X". Gen X is a misnomer: it covers two wildly different groups of people. There's a sharp demographic change; it happened at different years for different people, but it centers areound the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. Before that, each birth year was more Republican than the last; after that, each birth year has been more Democratic than the last.

The older group are the group who got more right-wing over time and supported Reagan, leading to the "peak Republican" birth year of 1974. The younger group are more left-wing every birth year and are a lot more like the Millennials politically -- I'm in it. This later half is better known as the "Oregon Trail Generation", after the computer game -- there are several articles about us, and the key feature is that we can do things both without computers and with them -- older people are uncomfortable with computers, younger people are uncomfortable without them, we span both worlds. (Musk is one of us.)

People born in the late 1970s may be on either side of this gaping divide between GenX and Oregon Trail Generation, which is also a massive social divide. Oregon Trail Generation folks have similar social assumptions to post-Millenials and wildly different assumptions from the older GenX. (I've been trying to figure out why the social divide is so sharp, and I think part of it is that the Oregon Trail Genreration is the first generation to grow up with gender and racial integration as an assumed background.)

But anyway, the right-wing tendency in *both halves*, the older GenX and the younger Oregon Trail generation, is *libertarian*. It is *not* authoritarian. And the current Republican Party is *extremely* authoritarian, and as such has *severely* alienated both the GenX and Oregon Trail generations. (The rewriting of the rules of the RNC to make sure Ron Paul supporters never ever had a chance to do anything again... the Republican activists remembered that.)

Oregon Trail Generation voters will happily vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too establishment), and GenX voters will vote for Kamala (even if they think she's too "big government") just to repel the authoritarian election-stealers in the Republican Party. She has a bit of a cult status for protecting verifiable paper ballot voting in California, and she should campaign on that.

The demographics, unfortunately, mean that that peak-Republican birth year of 1974... is also the middle of the Baby Bust. Lowest birth year population around. There just aren't very many of us in the Oregon Trail Generation or in GenX. We're fundamentally waiting for enough of the much older generations to die off and enough post-Millennials to turn 18 for the Millennials and post-Millennials to outnumber the Baby Boom and pre-Baby Boom generations. Opposition to Republican authoritarianism among post-Millennials is at staggeringly high levels, levels which no party can survive.

This makes it sound like voters are thinking or at least acting reasonable. The terrain and the map disagree in this case and I'm inclined to believe the terrain. I'm beginning to think that voters are not thinking at all :(
 
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I believe you said you live in the Bay Area? It's easy to project what we see around us as being the mood of the entire nation, but the US is made up of a patchwork of different cultures with different cultural values. One of the moderators recommended American Nations a couple of years ago and I found it eye opening. It explains why I find more cultural kinship with Vancouver, BC than I do with most of America outside the west coast. Culturally Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, BC, and the Bay Area share more common values than any of those cities and Nashville or Dallas.

There are parts of the country that are very ready for a progressive president, but most of the country is not ready yet. The reason Kamala Harris doesn't stand a chance is because most of the country sees her as too progressive, not too little. Whether that is an accurate assessment or not, that is how most of the country sees her and people like her.



There is a political theory that I came across lately of phases of American history called the Party Systems. The first system was from the Constitution coming about to around 1824. There is debate whether the 5th system started in 1932 and ended with Reagan, or whether it is still going. I think Reagan was the start of a new system.

The party systems seem to break down near the end and a new leader comes along with new ideas and takes American politics in a new direction. When I was a kid my father used to complain that there were Democrats who hadn't had a new idea since Roosevelt and I could say the same about many Republicans today and Reagan. The legacy of the starter of a party system tends to exist long after that person is out of office.



The terms have been thrown around so much they have lost meaning. Different people would draw the lines differently. Some people would call Nancy Pelosi one of the most liberal people in the world, but she's actually fairly moderate, especially by international standards.



The founders both had personal experience from the revolution and many were very well versed in the classics. Nobody alive today has the former and only a handful of people have the latter.



I see those who call themselves conservatives and go to extremes are trying to recreate a past heyday when "we" were great. Trump's campaign slogan is right in that wheelhouse. For the American right, that's going back to a fictional version of the the 1950s. For fascist Italy of the 1920s-40s it was the new Roman Empire. For Germany it was some classical Norse fantasy perpetuated by Wagner. Erdowan in Turkey wants to bring back the Ottoman Empire and the list goes on.

The big figures of history are mostly artifacts of their time. The conditions and mood of at least a big enough faction of the public brought them to the fore. Hitler would have gotten nowhere if Germany hadn't been dealing with the chaos from the Versailles Treaty and trying to establish the Weimar Republic. The economic chaos was the worst part of it.

Trump came about in part from the real reality that white men without a college degree are less and less needed by our economy and whites in general are headed towards minority status. The right wing media in this country has stoked those issues to get those people to vote for Republicans. It was a calculated result by those in the Republican Party to advance their vision of the good principles of the conservative movement which include limited government and strong personal liberty. People like Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson thought that was what they were bringing about helping get Republicans elected.

It was already somewhat hijacked by Republicans who just wanted to keep power and weren't really thinking very far ahead as well as the Deep South types who wanted to create their vision of the country which looks a lot like Apartheid in South Africa or the caste system in India looked like. With the Deep South leaders on top of course.

But all this stoking the flames with the right wing media teed up Donald Trump. He was the logical conclusion of all their ridiculous banter and he grabbed control of the party away from those who have been working a bait and switch on their constituents since the 1980s.

But IMO he had mortally wounded the Republican Party in the process.



That was the time of the First Party System.
First Party System - Wikipedia

I hope the Democrats will do a good job. I do think they will be fine at least at first because they have become hyper about ethics in response to GOP corruption.



Fascism is a complex subject with many definitions:
Definitions of fascism - Wikipedia

The GOP has become radically nationalistic and lives in a separate reality from the rest of the world. Whatever you want to name it, it's very dangerous IMO.



Where people draw the lines for generations is different because the groups are different based on what you're looking at. You mention the Oregon Trail generation as one dividing line. I've noticed another right around those born in 1955. I've noticed most of those born before struggle a lot with learning computers at all while those born in 1955 and later are much more likely to be able to figure out computers. Those born in 1955 were among the first people to encounter programmable calculators in the early 70s.

I've seen people divide the Boomers into at least two groups, early and late. People like Hillary Clinton who is an early Boomer think differently than late Boomers like Barack Obama. I was born in the mid-60s and by most measures I'm an early GenXer. I can relate to what you're saying. I saw a rather sharp demarcation between my year in school and the year before mine. I got along better with the older kids, but probably because I'm more like a very late Boomer than a GenXer. My parents were older (born in 1920 and 1925) and my only sibling was born in the 50s. So my home environment was more like a Boomer kid's household than a GenXer household.

I went through most of high school and college during the Reagan years and saw just how radically different youth culture was than it was when my sister was the same age. She was in college at the end of the Vietnam War era. My sister found college culture way too liberal for her tastes (my family were Eisenhower Republicans) and I found the campus environment of the 80s way too conservative.

There has not been a Gen X president, and it's possible there never will be one, but much of the more extremist political leadership are early Xers, born before 1974 as you pointed out. Paul Ryan is the perfect example of this group. He has wanted to completely revamp the taxing and budget since he joined Congress.

We need a wisdom button. You unscrambled the discussion. Bravo!
 
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It’s a pleasure for a Moderator to be able to glide through an entire thread and without having to rap knuckles be able to enjoy good to very good, and occasionally even inspired, dialog. Propriety demands I stay out of this discussion; I do wonder, though, whether any of you* have formed an idea of what my era is (not that you’ve thought about it - but I have written extensively in other threads and have presented many clues).

*Prof is excluded from this. He knows too much of my background from other means.
 
There are parts of the country that are very ready for a progressive president, but most of the country is not ready yet. The reason Kamala Harris doesn't stand a chance is because most of the country sees her as too progressive, not too little. Whether that is an accurate assessment or not, that is how most of the country sees her and people like her.
Hmmmm ... no.

Kamala is a neoliberal. Not a progressive. Not even going to list stuff she did as AG.

Also, entire country is sick of establishment politicians who say one thing and do something else. An authentic anti-establishment person will easily win in 2020. Just look at where progressive issues are polling.

BTW, Kamala has little chance of winning the primary. It’s a fight between establishment Biden and progressive Sanders.
 
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Both parties have basically destroyed the "higher" education system in the US. Where else does higher education cost so much and people learn so little? (motivated people learn in spite of college now day, right?) Student debt rivals credit card debt??? good luck (I know people in their 50s still paying for school loans - how is that possible??) China economy now size of US? right? Trending to double US economy in less than 20 years?

One party is always ascendant and the other is playing defense. These are the different party system eras. Since 1980 the Republicans have been ascendant and the Democrats have been playing defense. The Democrats have gone along with some pretty stupid ideas pushed by the Republicans because Republican ideas were dominant. And Republicans want to limit upward mobility because they have done better when they can con people who don't have good educations into voting against their own best interests.

Personally I think we should be doing everything we can to ensure as many people as possible get the best education possible. There are some people who won't use it and some who will get useless degrees, but a) a well educated population is harder to hoodwink, and b) on average people with a college degree usually make more money than those whithout, which means more tax income for the government in the long run as well as a stronger economy in general.

Hmmmm ... no.

Kamala is a neoliberal. Not a progressive. Not even going to list stuff she did as AG.

Also, entire country is sick of establishment politicians who say one thing and do something else. An authentic anti-establishment person will easily win in 2020. Just look at where progressive issues are polling.

BTW, Kamala has little chance of winning the primary. It’s a fight between establishment Biden and progressive Sanders.

This is the distinction that many who follow insider baseball on the left comprehend, but very few people outside that circle would understand. There are similar shades of difference on the right that the conservative insiders understand well but the rest of the country don't know and usually don't care.
 
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