MASTER THREAD: 2019.40.50.x - Driving Visualization improvements, new voice commands, Camping Mode

[dandrewk]

I wonder about auto-park...

Why? That's an entirely different from of auto steer. It's designed to activate when it spots an opening. Self parking has issues, I'm sure, but I doubt actually spotting parked cars is one of them.

Putting it another way, if you are in the middle lane of traffic, either moving or stopped, visualization seem to work great in showing cars in adjacent lanes. There's no reason why it doesn't do the same with parked cars... it just doesn't need to show them on the screen.

 

[jonquiljo]

Will these "visualizations" be continued for those who don't have FSD - or is it just a quick demo? I still can't figure that out.

 

[dandrewk]

Will these "visualizations" be continued for those who don't have FSD - or is it just a quick demo? I still can't figure that out.

Hey Jon. Probably keep them. It's a great advertisement for the $7k opt-in.

 

[jonquiljo]

Hey Jon. Probably keep them. It's a great advertisement for the $7k opt-in.

Yes, it's not clear to me from the update whether this will be there when the next one comes. I'll assume it will be - with working voice commands.

It's very impressive and shows a side to "self driving" that does not have an image of someone sleeping at the wheel at 70MPH. It can be used as a while different aspect of "driving hands-on." Perhaps Tesla is trying to let people know this. I'm sold if it promotes a new way of user-driving - more safely and more aware.

 

[TimothyHW3]

After a period of time a screensaver kicks in, but a quick tap on the screen gets the screen back to normal.

Can you please measure the consumption over night and report it? Also - can you try to turn off the monitor (put in clean mode or shutdown button) and see if that screen saver comes -if it does this is pretty stupid.

 

[dandrewk]

Yes, it's not clear to me from the update whether this will be there when the next one comes. I'll assume it will be - with working voice commands.

It's very impressive and shows a side to "self driving" that does not have an image of someone sleeping at the wheel at 70MPH. It can be used as a while different aspect of "driving hands-on." Perhaps Tesla is trying to let people know this. I'm sold if it promotes a new way of user-driving - more safely and more aware.

I don't think I will ever surrender that much control to a car. The Model 3 I rented a few months ago had FSD, so I gave NOA a try. As soon as it tried to change lanes, I was freaking a bit, swiveling my had frantically and say "WTF!!??!". It's all I can do to trust adaptive cruise control. But change lanes? Navigate through complicated interchanges? No way, not until these systems are certified safe and truly automatous.

 

[PACEMD]

I'm sold if it promotes a new way of user-driving - more safely and more aware.

That's my take on FSD, at least as it currently exists. I'm happy to let the car do the parts I trust it to do. I pay close attention so I know what actions I can mostly trust. Of course, it's a computer program dependent on the fragility of mechanical parts like unobstructed cameras and such so I'm always ready for a fail. In any case, you know you are going to get FSD, right? Resistance is futile..........

 

[jonquiljo]

I don't think I will ever surrender that much control to a car. The Model 3 I rented a few months ago had FSD, so I gave NOA a try. As soon as it tried to change lanes, I was freaking a bit, swiveling my had frantically and say "WTF!!??!". It's all I can do to trust adaptive cruise control. But change lanes? Navigate through complicated interchanges? No way, not until these systems are certified safe and truly automatous.

Agreed. It's easier to get an Uber.

I'm a control freak and even self-parking would give me heartburn. I'm sure the car could do it well. I just can't let it have that control.

But simply the distance sensors have changed the way I drive. More of that is worth $7K to me. Tesla must know that.

 

[PACEMD]

I don't think I will ever surrender that much control to a car. The Model 3 I rented a few months ago had FSD, so I gave NOA a try. As soon as it tried to change lanes, I was freaking a bit, swiveling my had frantically and say "WTF!!??!". It's all I can do to trust adaptive cruise control. But change lanes? Navigate through complicated interchanges? No way, not until these systems are certified safe and truly automatous.

There is some learning to safely using NOA and knowing what you can trust.

 

[mswlogo]

Can you please measure the consumption over night and report it? Also - can you try to turn off the monitor (put in clean mode or shutdown button) and see if that screen saver comes -if it does this is pretty stupid.

Monitor is not off in clean mode. All the pixels are just dark.

For the record my Model X will go 2 days and drop only 1 mile.

 

[diezel_dave]

I think it shows you what you need to know. Parked cars essentially won't cause any issues. I realize that folks often don't do a good job parking, but if those cars intrude in the lane of traffic, auto steer would/should avoid them like any other car or obstacle. In that situation, the parked car is no longer a parked car.

Not so with traffic cones and garbage cans. Traffic cones will close off a lane. Garbage cans can often intrude in traffic lanes, especially in residential neighborhoods. Around here, the garbage trucks are all about speed and efficiency. If they should drop a can that hits the edge of a curb and topple over into the street, it most likely would stay there and become an obstacle that needs to be avoided.

I can't say I agree with that logic. I'd much rather run in to a trash can than a car parked on the side of the road so I don't really believe it is showing me what I need to know. I need to know that the car can see things like parked cars before I can trust it to drive. I am 99% sure it isn't see parking parked cars because every time I let AP drive slowly through my neighborhood, where there are no lines to guide it and its just driving on "driveable space", it always heads right for parked cars with no attempt to avoid them before I have to take control.

 

[jonquiljo]

That's my take on FSD, at least as it currently exists. I'm happy to let the car do the parts I trust it to do. I pay close attention so I know what actions I can mostly trust. Of course, it's a computer program dependent on the fragility of mechanical parts like unobstructed cameras and such so I'm always ready for a fail. In any case, you know you are going to get FSD, right? Resistance is futile..........

Resistance is definitely futile! Will I let the machines take over? Old habit's die hard. I have (according to my insurer) 50 years of driving experience. That's a lot of "un-learning" to do. But I will try. FSD was made with another demographic in mind, but I will still try.

Then again, around here - Tesla's are a dime a dozen. Very locally, I see more Model S and X than 3s. The owners are older farts like myself so they need a bit of a turnaround also. FSD means a lot of things. Tesla does do a great job at approaching the reality of it. The stew just needs to simmer a bit more!

 

[dandrewk]

I can't say I agree with that logic. I'd much rather run in to a trash can than a car parked on the side of the road so I don't really believe it is showing me what I need to know. I need to know that the car can see things like parked cars before I can trust it to drive. I am 99% sure it isn't see parking parked cars because every time I let AP drive slowly through my neighborhood, where there are no lines to guide it and its just driving on "driveable space", it always heads right for parked cars with no attempt to avoid them before I have to take control.

As I said, if a car is parked such that it was blocking a lane of traffic, it is no longer a "parked car" per se. It's an obstacle. I don't need, nor do I want, a representation of something that doesn't concern me. And I sure don't want the car wasting resources dynamically updating items on the screen that don't/won't affect my driving.

I did notice that the latest update doesn't show parked cars as much, or not at all. Was this something they arbitrarily removed? Before the parked cars were sometimes shown, sometimes not. I think it's far more likely they just don't show you what you don't need to know or see.

Of course, only Tesla knows for sure. I'm betting when FSD goes fully live, they will be more specific as to what is shown on the screen, and what is not shown (but still accounted for).

 

[dandrewk]

There is some learning to safely using NOA and knowing what you can trust.

No doubt at all. Getting to that point is another matter. It's hard, real hard, to overcome decades of driving experience, especially driving in congested urban traffic with plenty of aggressive, distracted drivers. For many, it will turn us into back seat drivers while sitting in the driver's seat. Or perhaps a micro-managing spouse in the passenger's seat. Except now the driver is micro-managing a computer.

My sons are now of driving age. Taking them out, teaching them, it's a big deal. When they take over, how easy is it to just trust them? It takes a lot of time, a lot of miles, and I'm a very patient teacher. It's probably the same thing with trusting FSD.

 

[azmhtx]

Have a model 3 with build date of 6/2019 Updated to latest software version 2019.40.50.1 and don’t have option for full self driving visualizations? Checked autopilot settings. It doesn’t mention it on the release notes for my car either. Any reason why I wouldn’t have this feature available?

 

[diezel_dave]

Have a model 3 with build date of 6/2019 Updated to latest software version 2019.40.50.1 and don’t have option for full self driving visualizations? Checked autopilot settings. It doesn’t mention it on the release notes for my car either. Any reason why I wouldn’t have this feature available?

You most likely do not have HW3 installed in your car so sadly you won't be seeing those visualizations unless you upgrade to FSD and they install the new computer next year.

 

[PACEMD]

Resistance is definitely futile! Will I let the machines take over? Old habit's die hard. I have (according to my insurer) 50 years of driving experience. That's a lot of "un-learning" to do. But I will try. FSD was made with another demographic in mind, but I will still try.

Then again, around here - Tesla's are a dime a dozen. Very locally, I see more Model S and X than 3s. The owners are older farts like myself so they need a bit of a turnaround also. FSD means a lot of things. Tesla does do a great job at approaching the reality of it. The stew just needs to simmer a bit more!

Right, this is also year 50 for me with driving. Weird, right? How in the farmer's mother did that happen? When I started university we didn't even have calculators. Yet somehow us old dogs were new tricked over the years. But yeah, I'm a bit more of a control freak driving. That said I'm cool with technology to the degree that I understand and control it. Not my day job but I've been pretty good with computers over the years. Now, letting my teenage sons loose with AP/NOA/FSD is a bridge too far, for me........or maybe not, que sera sera.....

 

[diezel_dave]

As I said, if a car is parked such that it was blocking a lane of traffic, it is no longer a "parked car" per se. It's an obstacle. I don't need, nor do I want, a representation of something that doesn't concern me. And I sure don't want the car wasting resources dynamically updating items on the screen that don't/won't affect my driving.

I did notice that the latest update doesn't show parked cars as much, or not at all. Was this something they arbitrarily removed? Before the parked cars were sometimes shown, sometimes not. I think it's far more likely they just don't show you what you don't need to know or see.

Of course, only Tesla knows for sure. I'm betting when FSD goes fully live, they will be more specific as to what is shown on the screen, and what is not shown (but still accounted for).

You said "I don't need, nor do I want, a representation of something that doesn't concern me." Do dozens of "cones" or trash cans that are nowhere near you fall in to that category?

I think the software just needs work still because it should be showing any potential obstacles in the immediate vicinity, in my opinion. If Tesla agreed with you, it would never show parked cars, cones, trash cans, etc. that are not in the path of travel since you think those things are not relevant.

It shows parked cars sometimes and it is the inconsistency of it that gives me the impression that the car has perception difficulties. It either needs to never show them or it needs to show them all the time. God help us if the MCU doesn't have enough compute resources to show a few low resolution car renders on the display but we know that isn't the case because is has no problem displaying several cars, cones, trash cans, stop signs, etc. on the screen all at the same time.

 

[Probllama]

That seems overly presumptuous. Sure they could be using a cloud service... But they could also buy a wide variety of various hardware to put in a data center if they wanted to run it themselves. Why do you think they would "have to buy direct" from your firm? I am sure you are not the only company that can provide server hardware.

Because together with our main competitor we have over 80% market share (and there is only a third company in the whole industry with less than 20% share and mostly active in APAC) and no company operating a medium/large size datacenter will single-source storage hardware. If Tesla was a direct account they would either be buying from us or we would hear them buying from our main competitor.

 

[dandrewk]

You said "I don't need, nor do I want, a representation of something that doesn't concern me." Do dozens of "cones" or trash cans that are nowhere near you fall in to that category?

I think the software just needs work still because it should be showing any potential obstacles in the immediate vicinity, in my opinion. If Tesla agreed with you, it would never show parked cars, cones, trash cans, etc. that are not in the path of travel since you think those things are not relevant.

It shows parked cars sometimes and it is the inconsistency of it that gives me the impression that the car has perception difficulties. It either needs to never show them or it needs to show them all the time. God help us if the MCU doesn't have enough compute resources to show a few low resolution car renders on the display but we know that isn't the case because is has no problem displaying several cars, cones, trash cans, stop signs, etc. on the screen all at the same time.

The representation faithfully shows cars in adjacent lanes. I've yet to read any account of an attempted self park into an occupied space. Traffic cones and garbage cans CAN be obstacles, parked cars cannot. If the parked car was in the lane of traffic, it's not longer just a parked car. If it can see a can or cone or stop sign or stop light a block or two ahead of you, what makes you think the system can't spot a parked car right next to you?

FSD is far from perfected, but personally I have zero doubt it can spot a parked car and know not to veer into what it (mistakenly) perceives as an open lane. If so, we'd have heard and read about it many times by now.