Yes, because I believe they may allow higher current there.
I know. Would have asked you directly anyway, but feel free to check, were yours is peaking.
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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
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Topped 1320 at about 75 kph (47 mph)
Then decreased and 1304 at 50mph, and 1287 at 60mph(96kph).
Latest Android SMT, 50% SOC.
Car has been sleeping for 2 1/2 weeks when a was in US molesting the Model S Plaid (
), battery not really warm. I would guess a higher batt temp would give more power, maybe more Amphs…If you can, then check again with high SoC and temperature. I would be surprised if you see more than 1240A then.Topped 1320 at about 75 kph (47 mph)
Then decreased and 1304 at 50mph, and 1287 at 60mph(96kph).
Latest Android SMT, 50% SOC.
Car has been sleeping for 2 1/2 weeks when a was in US molesting the Model S Plaid (
View attachment 840440
So .....tell us about the MS Plaid....would you trade your M3P for one?Topped 1320 at about 75 kph (47 mph)
Then decreased and 1304 at 50mph, and 1287 at 60mph(96kph).
Latest Android SMT, 50% SOC.
Car has been sleeping for 2 1/2 weeks when a was in US molesting the Model S Plaid (
View attachment 840440
I rather keep my M3P also
I did a degradation test today. Drove from 100-0% ( actually ended up at 0.41% according to SMT).
75.15 kWh drawn from the battery, 0.41% = 0.3kWh left, and buffer 3.5kWh.
So the capacity is really 78.95kWh, still after 46K km.
We would not like to trade that M3P away, do we
Preserving the battery with low SOC works (and it works just as the researchers say it should)
Good to see AKEE. I still follow your charging recommendations and keep it around the 50% mark as max.I rather keep my M3P also
I did a degradation test today. Drove from 100-0% ( actually ended up at 0.41% according to SMT).
75.15 kWh drawn from the battery, 0.41% = 0.3kWh left, and buffer 3.5kWh.
So the capacity is really 78.95kWh, still after 46K km.
We would not like to trade that M3P away, do we
Preserving the battery with low SOC works (and it works just as the researchers say it should)
Except during our summer holiday where I charged to 100% or close to a couple of times but only while using it at once almost. driving in Europe.
At fully charged at least according to the screen (display in kilometer) I dont seem to have lost any range at all
I guess you are thinking about a graph made by @Zoomit here on TMC?
I wont post the picture or pictures (it was at least two versions) as they is not in line with the research.
There was a thread where @Zoomit asked about battery stress and from what he was told in the thread, he did write a chart over ”battery stress”.
There was (is) a user that used the nickname EV-tech Exp, but some of the parts he told does not go in line with the research reports.
No bad feelings for @Zoomit at all. He didn’t know, asked and then summarized what was said in a picture.
For EV-tech Exp, he probably did his best to contribute but the end output that rendered a non valid picture ”accepted” that now cause people to have the wrong idea of battery stress at both 70-80% and at low SOC is not very good as I see it.
In the end, that picture is all over the net and I think this it is the 10th time going over this.
There was a lot of research data out and accessible at that time so we already did have the possibillity to know that it does look like this:
Zoomits picture:
Battery Degradation Scientifically Explained
The thread:
Battery Degradation Scientifically Explained
Before surfing to these, please remember that the pictures does not reflect the reality.
Feel free to compare the faulty drawing with the researchs dito.
Well, for me the degradation test (100-0% drive) was most important to actually check and get a qualitative measure of my own degradation calculations. The result is more or less spot on (My calc said that my battery should be between 78.5-79.0kWh by now and the output was 79kWh) and a receipt that my calculations is transferable from the research to actual use in cars.
The hardest thing was knowing the capacity where to start as 2170L seem to be all over the place in NFP when new.
I had a NFP of 81.4-81.6 and nominal remaining was 82.0 for a couple of full charges so for me I think 82kWh is a valid starting point.
More than this, this test showing 78.95kWh capacity (75.15 consumed and 3.80 nominal remaining) shows that the research conclusions is trustworthy and can be used to keep the degradation low.
My BMS is off right now, about 1.6-2kWh on the low side. It has been off about the same on the high side as well.
For comparison for people with on screen range only, with the BMS on track it should read about 495-496km range out of 507 so about 12km loss in 46.000km / 20 months.
You will have a quite slow degradation, and when the range seem to have leveled out, you will have much higher range than most other.
Charging to 100% does not wear as much as most people thinks.
Worst case is charging to 100% and driving down to 0%, or actually until the car stops.
In research we see NCA batteries do about 500 such cycles before they loose 20% capacity. This means each 100-0% cycle causes a wear of about 0.04% capacity.
Do ten cycles and loose 0.3kWh, or 2km.
The danger to leave the battery at 100% is exaggerated in forums*. Tesla does not even write about this in the battery preserving tips. Compare to the graph in my other post above(remember not to look at the faulty picture now). 100% doesnt wear much more than 70-80-90% if the temperature is normal. Still, as there is absolute no reason to leave it for long at 100%, I dont.
But I do not leave it for long at 70-80 or 90% either.
*) As said before, there is have many [forum facts] that make people do the wrong decisions with their cars, like charging to 80% to preserve the battery despite never needing more than 20% each day.
And on the fun side, writing angry posts to me about beeing completely wrong about the best SOC to use for battery preservation.
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In Europe there was a hard cut from Q1/2022 to Q2/2022.
Q1 was still the Panasonic 3L 82kWh that we knew since the Refresh Q4/2020.
Q2 onwards we get the LG 5L 79kWh pack.
Now all Long Range and Performance Model 3 and Y get the same battery pack.
Thank you @eivissa for clearing it out
Is this a good change or a bad one??
How does the LG 5L compare to the Pana 3L?
Mostly in terms of
1) battery degradation / life expectancy
2) LG seems to have a lil bit less range?
3) if its more "safe" charging to 100% (the LG compared to Pala) since i read its also different chemistry
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But the picture confirm your recommendation of stsying below tje 57% SOC.
I saw a graph once indicating high degradation at very low soc (increasing below the 20-25%) and at high, increasing from 60%ish whereas almost flat between these
Did you read this post ( MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc in all, and did you look at the link with Zoomits picture?
If not, here it is:
(Crossed out to make sure it wont slip out as true again)
Note Zoomits note [*Based on just one guy’s intuition]
It looks like you describe, but it is home made and there is no research behind those curves. They are not true.
If they where true my battery would almost need replacement by now due to low SOC often
It's just different with Pro's and Con's...
Since you didn't mention charge/discharge performance I am gonna mention it here:
- The LG's discharge power is in average about 20kW below the Panasonic. We did some direct comparisons here. It is important to translate the post, as there are a lot of sidenotes to this comparison. Worth noting is, that the LG has a higher voltage curve at low SoC, so it gets faster below 20'ish% SoC.
- The LG's DC charge curve does not have a 250kW plateau as the Panasonic. In some scenarios you will wait up to five minutes longer with the LG pack.
Not scientific, but it is notable that the LG packs still show a very high rated range. Even with high mileage, high DC charge and parked long times at high SoC. The Panasonic gained the nickname "Diva", because even though its initial capacity is higher, it tends to punish the drive with rapid decrease in capacity (mostly calibration, not degradation). This can be:
- Daily charge limit above 60%.
- DC charging of any kind 20kw or 250kW...doesn't matter.
- Same daily charge limit, without being able to sleep at any other SoC state.
Only on paper...
- The Panasonic's start at 78-80kWh when delivered in average, but rapidly drop to 75-78kWh.
- The LG's start at 77-78kWh and climb up to 79,3kWh within a couple of months. They then stay at 77-79kWh for quite a long time.
Panasonic is NCA and the LG is NMC. Both chemistries will degrade faster if charged above 60-70% daily and kept there for longer durations, even worth if stored in a hot environment (@AAKEE 's chart looks spot on to me!). Above around 95% it gets especially damaging as this is when the voltage curve increases exponentially.
Still, the LG doesn't seem to care about this as much as the Panasonic. One user I will not name is charging his LG 5L with solar and he admits that, when there is excess energy in the evening, he allows the car to go to 100% and keeps it there for days. This is something that makes my skin crawl. The thing is, he regularly posts his rated range in the forum and his car is mostly in the top 1% of the list.
My LG 5L had its highest measured capacity right after a long trip with several supercharger stops. The Panasonic would probably be at it's lowest and in need of weeks of 60% limitation to "regenerate" (or relax from all the "stress") ;-)
Personally: I think the LG 5L is great battery pack, but in a Performance model I would prefer to have the Panasonic.
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