MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[Fransosowitz]

A Dutch Tesla dealer contacted me recently about my question whether I'll receive the updated WLTP range of 614km for the Longe Range AWD. The answer was positive: she checked and I should get the updated model when I pick-up the LR at May 19th. Alrighty then!

 

[hungrxyz]

A Dutch Tesla dealer contacted me recently about my question whether I'll receive the updated WLTP range of 614km for the Longe Range AWD. The answer was positive: she checked and I should get the updated model when I pick-up the LR at May 19th. Alrighty then!

I’m also picking mine up on the 19th and they told me that I should get it since it’s a Q2 car (made in April) even though my VIN is 942xxx. I’m really not sure if they can say for sure since they might not have enough information though. Do you have a VIN?

 

[AAKEE]

My Nominal Full Pack Value started to increase a few weeks ago.

Starting at 80.6kwh, and topping 81.1 a week after delivery it decreased to 80.1kwh which it held from middle of january until April 6, then it started a steady climb with about 0.1kwh every day.
I have been away on work for two weeks with the exeption of one day in the middle, also increasing that day and today it says 81.4kWh.
My guess is that the higher( well, at least less low) temperatures have an impact on the nominal size. The garage has held + 10 to 12C during winter and is a few degrees warmer now.
Anyone experiencing the same behaviour?
Can the delta between full pack when new /82.1kWh and the usual 80.5-81.0 be explained by the cold weather that prevailed from first delivery of the ’21 P ?

 

[Fransosowitz]

I’m also picking mine up on the 19th and they told me that I should get it since it’s a Q2 car (made in April) even though my VIN is 942xxx. I’m really not sure if they can say for sure since they might not have enough information though. Do you have a VIN?

I only received the last 4 digits of the VIN...

 

[eivissa]

My 2021 M3P seems to always settle at 80.4kWh. No garage in my case. The car is always parked outside and gets charged to 90% when it reaches 20% SoC. 9500km ODO / 5 Months old.

I doubt we will ever see the 82.1kWh or anything more than 81.0 as a daily value across the fleet. Of course I hope I am wrong ;-)

 

[conv90]

My Nominal Full Pack Value started to increase a few weeks ago.

Starting at 80.6kwh, and topping 81.1 a week after delivery it decreased to 80.1kwh which it held from middle of january until April 6, then it started a steady climb with about 0.1kwh every day.
I have been away on work for two weeks with the exeption of one day in the middle, also increasing that day and today it says 81.4kWh.
My guess is that the higher( well, at least less low) temperatures have an impact on the nominal size. The garage has held + 10 to 12C during winter and is a few degrees warmer now.
Anyone experiencing the same behaviour?
Can the delta between full pack when new /82.1kWh and the usual 80.5-81.0 be explained by the cold weather that prevailed from first delivery of the ’21 P ?

As I told you last week, all better values I had in my old LR 2019 on Nominal Ful Pack was in Winter .
My Performance 2021 start to worrie me.
Started at 79,6 continued to be 79,6 ...went to 79,7 - 79,8 -79,9 then decreased to 79,6 again.
Charged to 100% went to 80,1 kWh and just the time to be at 90% 20 minutes later, and it was again 79,6 . Here in Italy we are at 20°C during the day.
Today it is 79,5kWh
Im start to believe that I had a "unlucky" E3LD
BTW, Sliding the cursor on App (as better reading during the day) I see 505 km.
Only 1500 km odometer and I had delivery 19 march 2021 so it's 40 days old

 

[AAKEE]

For me the app range value and the SMT nominal full / full rated range does not follow. I do not feel it like the app have tge current value.
508km in the car, 81.4kWh but only 502km in the app.
[Edit]502km just before writing this post, and 498km just after. No, the app is not a good help for this[End Edit]

I’d guess the app is nit the best source to the range or battery degradation.

I see eivissas kWh jump around much more than my does. Is it SMT values?
I see no jumps with SMT so far but steady values, and when increasing the trend is straight. The first decrease down to 80.1 was also a straight line.
I did get teslafi, and the battery report is much more( quite) jumpy, and I do not see the short term values/changes to match SMT. I have had a clear range increase there as well but it jumps up and down a bit. I dont know how teslafi calculates the range. Its clearly not the BMS full rated range.

 

[coder77]

Is there no information about the battery in the cars made in US? I want to order a M3 LR but do not want to buy one with these LG batteries. Thanks.

 

[eivissa]

Is there no information about the battery in the cars made in US? I want to order a M3 LR but do not want to buy one with these LG batteries. Thanks.

The LG packs were never put in cars intended for the US. Only EU and even there they stopped using them from the 1st of April.

Personally I would wait until Tesla starts advertising the Model 3 with the new / higher range. I expect the long range to go from 353 miles EPA to 365-370. That would be the confirmation of the 82kWh battery pack.

Is it SMT values?

Yes. SMT feeding all its data via Could Service to my home server running Teslalogger.

This Nominal Full Pack graph shows all changes from the day Ive got the new car until today. 4,5 months in total.

Full Rated Range in SMT is a value that is calculated within SMT I believe. The Range Report in Teslafi is a different value reported by the car via Tesla API to Teslafi.

The most useless value is coming from the Tesla app when sliding the charge limit all the way to the right!

 

[TimothyHW3]

I’d guess the app is nit the best source to the range or battery degradation.

It actually is. The best way to test it is to drive 100% down to true 0% and see how much kWh you get out of it.

I guess some of what you see is because of the temperature and some of it is the way you charge the car.

 

[coder77]

The LG packs were never put in cars intended for the US. Only EU and even there they stopped using them from the 1st of April.

Personally I would wait until Tesla starts advertising the Model 3 with the new / higher range. I expect the long range to go from 353 miles EPA to 365-370. That would be the confirmation of the 82kWh battery pack.


Yes. SMT feeding all its data via Could Service to my home server running Teslalogger.

This Nominal Full Pack graph shows all changes from the day Ive got the new car until today. 4,5 months in total.

Full Rated Range in SMT is a value that is calculated within SMT I believe. The Range Report in Teslafi is a different value reported by the car via Tesla API to Teslafi.

The most useless value is coming from the Tesla app when sliding the charge limit all the way to the right!

I see. I assume this is just an educated guess though. It is quite possible to get 82kwh battery with the long range but stay software locked forever. I assume Tesla would not unlock these cars since older LR users might be angry. However if Tesla were to sell an improved range Long Range, they would probably increase the price.

This does not seem like a big deal to delay my purchase. But potential federal tax credits on the other hand is.

 

[conv90]

For sure the App sliding cursor is not the best way. But in long term it has a certain indication. (i repeat ...in the long term).
BTW when I charged to 100% I had 506 on screen on Charge section.
FInished the 100% charge:
80,1 nominal full pack and 503 on rated range on SMT.
When at 90% NFP returned to 79,6 kWh, the Full rated range in SMT was unchanged (503 km)

 

[conv90]

On my 2021 Performance...
Another thing that make me crazy is that I never be able to do more km (or equal to) than the advertised in a single trip EVEN if I stay under the 159 Wh/km constant.
Example: I have on the screen 290 km (near 58%) . I do 50 km with an average of about 150 Wh/km and I expect to end with 240 left (or more 241 or 242 or 243)
Usually im not. See the screen With 239 km left
The strange thing is that if I switch to "energy Screen" I'm well under EVEN as Average . (148 vs 152 Wh/km)
This in not a problem in real life, but I'd like to understand why i cannot reach better mileage (less km used compared to the km made).
I know the "Energy screen" is not "perfect" but I'm always with a better average than the screen at the left bottom.

I always use the comparison with my old LR 2019 AWD (I'm sorry for this), but with the LR I was able to do (easily) better mileage than advertised using WAY LESS kilometers than the real made.(Stay under the LR constant ).

 

[AAKEE]

The car is always parked outside and gets charged to 90% when it reaches 20% SoC. 9500km ODO / 5 Months old.

Do you charge to 90% and let it down to 20% due to long drives or lack of charger at home or is is by own choise to do 90-20% cycles ?

Asking because a lower charge would cause less degradation from calendar aging as it also would if using smaller DOD( depth of discharge).
Im not worried you will go below 70% in 8 years but you might be able to see less degradation with another approach..
Probably not the reason for seeing lower NFP than I do, but still something to consider in the long run.

I have a quite different approach, if not the temps do the difference, as conv90’s experience suggest, maybe its the charging habits that do? TimothyHW3 also suggest charging could make the difference.
I did charge to 80% during the coldest month when we daily had -15/-20 or colder. Lowered the charge to 70% when the temps came up a little and 60% when it got warmer( maybe more right to say even less cold). Recently I set it to 55%. My charging scheme at home is to start charging so the charging is complete about an hour or two before I leave for work.
I charge every night, always connect the charger when I park in the garage.
Weekends, then it mostly get charged first night an then not that much driving( covid-19 style). It would be theoretically possible to stay at lower SOC during weekends but it might/would have an impact on the freedom to drive at any time.
Picked my M3P up 30th december and it has 8540 km on the ODO. Manufactured Nov 17 -20 so its 6 months old.

 

[eivissa]

This might be due to the way tesla counts down those rated kilometers.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is, that when fully charged the car shows the full rated range.
I observed that from 80.4 kWh and up it stays bolted to 508km. The buffer is taken into account when doing the calculation, but only as a factor of the usable remaining. This means:

• 100% -> 508km
• 75% -> 485x75% + 23x75% =381km
• 50% -> 484x50% + 23x50% = 254km
• 25% -> 484x25% + 23x25% =127km
• 0% -> 484x0% + 23x0% = 0km (Still 3,6kWh in the Buffer!)

You therefore need to average 151Wh/100km to make it work...

I havent tested this as it makes virtually no difference to me. I drive with battery indication on % and use a charger if I need to.

 

[eivissa]

Do you charge to 90% and let it down to 20% due to long drives or lack of charger at home or is is by own choise to do 90-20% cycles ?

Asking because a lower charge would cause less degradation from calendar aging as it also would if using smaller DOD( depth of discharge).
Im not worried you will go below 70% in 8 years but you might be able to see less degradation with another approach..
Probably not the reason for seeing lower NFP than I do, but still something to consider in the long run.

I have a quite different approach, if not the temps do the difference, as conv90’s experience suggest, maybe its the charging habits that do? TimothyHW3 also suggest charging could make the difference.
I did charge to 80% during the coldest month when we daily had -15/-20 or colder. Lowered the charge to 70% when the temps came up a little and 60% when it got warmer( maybe more right to say even less cold). Recently I set it to 55%. My charging scheme at home is to start charging so the charging is complete about an hour or two before I leave for work.
I charge every night, always connect the charger when I park in the garage.
Weekends, then it mostly get charged first night an then not that much driving( covid-19 style). It would be theoretically possible to stay at lower SOC during weekends but it might/would have an impact on the freedom to drive at any time.
Picked my M3P up 30th december and it has 8540 km on the ODO. Manufactured Nov 17 -20 so its 6 months old.

So you basically did the 60% daily charging tactic which is supposed to calibrate the BMS to the highest possible nominal full pack. No surprise your values are this good ;-)

I live in the city center and have no private parking. My car is parked at a different place every night with no private charging available. I know the battery would love to stay in the 70%-30% window to have the least wear, but it makes no sense for me to do that. I have a fixed rate per charge on the public chargers, so it makes sense to have a high SoC delta (40% upwards).

What I always do is preheat the car/battery pack, before driving off. Also no high power demand before the cells have reached at least 15°C. Other than that...I have 30km of unrestricted Autobahn on my way to work and back and I didnt buy a Performance model look at my energy tab all the time...if you catch my drift ;-)

 

[TimothyHW3]

EVEN if I stay under the 159 Wh/km constant.

Welcome to the Tesla world of gradually hiding the buffer every 100km. For every 100km you get 5km rated less until 0%. Then you have the other 25km as a buffer. All explained here.

 

[eivissa]

I see. I assume this is just an educated guess though. It is quite possible to get 82kwh battery with the long range but stay software locked forever. I assume Tesla would not unlock these cars since older LR users might be angry. However if Tesla were to sell an improved range Long Range, they would probably increase the price.

This does not seem like a big deal to delay my purchase. But potential federal tax credits on the other hand is.

The Q2 Long range with the 82kWh will most likely not be software locked. Certainly not in the EU and I wouldn't know why they would start with that nonsense in the states.

The LG battery pack was the only reason Tesla locked the old 79' Panasonic pack. Since the LG is history, there is no need to limit the new cars at all. They are advertised at the higher range in Europe and sold at the old price. Good for people who waited for this change, which was predicted for a long time!

Customers who bought a long range in Q1 have no reason to complain. They bought a car with EPA 353 miles / WLTP 580km and that's what they got.

 

[AAKEE]

So you basically did the 60% daily charging tactic which is supposed to calibrate the BMS to the highest possible nominal full pack. No surprise your values are this good ;-)
I live in the city center and have no private parking. My car is parked at a different place every night with no private charging available. I know the battery would love to stay in the 70%-30% window to have the least wear, but it makes no sense for me to do that. I have a fixed rate per charge on the public chargers, so it makes sense to have a high SoC delta (40% upwards).

What I always do is preheat the car/battery pack, before driving off. Also no high power demand before the cells have reached at least 15°C. Other than that...I have 30km of unrestricted Autobahn on my way to work and back and I didnt buy a Performance model look at my energy tab all the time...if you catch my drift ;-)

Did’nt know 60% triggers the BMS to show higher values
I just chose the beat way according to my knowledge to minimise degradation.

So then we might have the answer for how the NFP value differs and changes ?

And of course, I now understand the reason for your charging cycle nothing strange with that

Of course we shall use the power of the Performance

 

[Redbug]

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