MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[Szatan]

One more thing is this onboard computer upgrade to HW4.0 this should also be included in SR+ isn't?
I'm curious to see if all Q4 will actually have this battery upgraded. One more thing that leans me to Q4 is hook that apparently needs to be added in factory so If I change order that would mean car need to be build to spec in factory and delivered in Q4...

 

[Szatan]

Is there any means to confirm if cars arriving in Q4 will have larger batter than when they will be received at service centre?
It might be that once shipment of Q3 is completed they will start to advertise it on website like they show WLTP 448km now

 

[tezlam3]

Frequency ?

The battery cells suffer from calendar aging, where a lower SOC is better than a higher.
You should be fine following the Tesla advise ( up to 90% daily and 90-100% for trips).
Dont leave the car gor long periods with high SOC, specially when the ambiebt temps is high.

Cycles also causes degradation.
Smaller cycles(depth of discharge, DOD) is better than bigger.
Also, for the same DOD, it is better to have the cycle in a lower state of charge. 50 to 30% is better than 80 to 60%.

I charge to about 50-60% in summer.
70% during late winter and spring. I did use 80% the coldest winter days.
Also I have the charging set to start on the night so the car stands most of the time with the comming home SOC( about 30-35% after work) and quite short time after charge.

i was figuring more frequent charges in a smaller range rather than one big charge say once every 1.5/2 weeks or so. im going to see how low i can keep it so i can just daily/every other day keep the car between 20-40% or so. thanks for the info!

 

[Jeremy3292]

Are there any updates for the US versions for 2022?

 

[StepsInTime]

V19 (3rd of August 20201) has been released... As expected it now includes the Model Y.

• Model 3 LR E5LD WLTP 614km -> Identical with the E3LD Panasonic.
• Model 3 SR+ E6LD WLTP 491km -> LFP 60kWh as expected earlier.
• Model 3 LR RWD E5CR WLTP 601km -> Introduced back in Q4/2020, but never released to the public. I guess a bit pointless anyway...
• No technical changes to the Model 3 described, but he had some in V18, so this one was mainly about Model Y.

View attachment 694640View attachment 694639View attachment 694638View attachment 694641

Model Y Data can be found here:

Model Y European Certification Documents / Technical Data

This is V19 of the Model 3 Type Certificate for the EU. Since V19 it includes the Model Y, so I thought you might be interested to have a look at the data. Certified Variants: Model Y LR / LG Chem 75kWh NMC Model Y LR / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA Model Y P / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA Model Y SR+ /...

teslamotorsclub.com

I can see that these are European certification documents, but does anyone know if these will ship to Australia in Q4 also?

V19 (3rd of August 20201) has been released... As expected it now includes the Model Y.

• Model 3 LR E5LD WLTP 614km -> Identical with the E3LD Panasonic.
• Model 3 SR+ E6LD WLTP 491km -> LFP 60kWh as expected earlier.
• Model 3 LR RWD E5CR WLTP 601km -> Introduced back in Q4/2020, but never released to the public. I guess a bit pointless anyway...
• No technical changes to the Model 3 described, but he had some in V18, so this one was mainly about Model Y.

View attachment 694609



View attachment 694612

I can see that these E5L figures are from European certification documents, but does anyone know if these will ship to Australia in Q4 also?

 

[larose]

My EU new model 3 with 614Km WLTP has moved from November Estimated delivery to December. Anyone else?
Also I have the possibility of getting the E3CD with 2k€ discount and 580 Km WLTP. Should I wait to the 614 Km WLTP?
Is the 614 Km WLTP will come from China with new LG battery (E5LD) or from USA with 82KWh Panasonic?

 

[larose]

My EU new model 3 with 614Km WLTP has moved from November Estimated delivery to December. Anyone else?
Also I have the possibility of getting the E3CD with 2k€ discount and 580 Km WLTP. Should I wait to the 614 Km WLTP?
Is the 614 Km WLTP will come from China with new LG battery (E5LD) or from USA with 82KWh Panasonic?

 

[eivissa]

Also I have the possibility of getting the E3CD with 2k€ discount and 580 Km WLTP

Are you sure it is the E3CD? That one is supposed to be "extinct" since end of Q1/2021. The currently discounted cars for Europe were all LG E5CD.

Should I wait to the 614 Km WLTP?

Yes, definately! In my opinion the 614km car is worth the extra 2000 bucks.

Is the 614 Km WLTP will come from China with new LG battery (E5LD) or from USA with 82KWh Panasonic?

Most likely (with the current information that we have) from China and as E5LD. A battery pack that we only have basic information for. The charging curve is the biggest mystery yet.

 

[TomasCZ]

My EU new model 3 with 614Km WLTP has moved from November Estimated delivery to December. Anyone else?
Also I have the possibility of getting the E3CD with 2k€ discount and 580 Km WLTP. Should I wait to the 614 Km WLTP?
Is the 614 Km WLTP will come from China with new LG battery (E5LD) or from USA with 82KWh Panasonic?

When did you order? I ordered my M3 LR (614km) on June 19 (Czech Republic). At that time the estimated delivery was November. I guess December is valid for current/recent orders only. I don't have any EDD in my Tesla account - Do you? Back in June I completed all steps I could in my account, stopped at insurance, for which I need VIN. My SA told me the order is checked-out and that I "just" need to wait. Of course, I am trying to keep my hopes up that the car might show up by the end October, but that seems unlikely. I totally agree with eivissa that the 614km version is worth waiting for.

 

[yon1000]

It seems that the 580km LR MiC battery will stay with us with every cars delivered in 2021.
Other batteries mentioned here are speculation and their range is a speculation.
The fact is that MiC LR Markets continue to show 580km range for December deliveries. It's very dissapointing since It's almost 10% less battery than regular American LR and it's even less than 3 years old LR's.

 

[eivissa]

You should start your post with a disclaimer that you are making claims or assumptions for your country (Israel?),
because here in the EU/Norway/Swiss market we certainly have a different situation.

Other batteries mentioned here are speculation and their range is a speculation.

All battery's here are certified for individual variants/versions and their range is set in the certification documents.
The 614km LR can have either Panasonic 3L oder LG 5L.
Speculation is only which one of the two it will be, the rest are facts.

The fact is that MiC LR Markets continue to show 580km range for December deliveries.

We see 614km LR cars for Q4 on the Tesla website and certainly that's what people ordered and what people will receive.
This used to be November and it now switched to December.

 

[larose]

Are you sure it is the E3CD? That one is supposed to be "extinct" since end of Q1/2021. The currently discounted cars for Europe were all LG E5CD.

Sorry, I mean E5CD from LG MIC

Yes, definately! In my opinion the 614km car is worth the extra 2000 bucks.

Most likely (with the current information that we have) from China and as E5LD. A battery pack that we only have basic information for. The charging curve is the biggest mystery yet.

When is expected the first delivers of these new cars E5LD? I mean when are we going to have the first range and charging results


Maybe the people who order EU the 614Km WLTP is not from LG and those cars are coming from USA with Panasonic? And that's why people from Australia or other markets are still viewing the model 3 with 580Km WLTP?

 

[larose]

When did you order? I ordered my M3 LR (614km) on June 19 (Czech Republic). At that time the estimated delivery was November. I guess December is valid for current/recent orders only. I don't have any EDD in my Tesla account - Do you? Back in June I completed all steps I could in my account, stopped at insurance, for which I need VIN. My SA told me the order is checked-out and that I "just" need to wait. Of course, I am trying to keep my hopes up that the car might show up by the end October, but that seems unlikely. I totally agree with eivissa that the 614km version is worth waiting for.

I ordered my LR from Spain the 18th of July. However, during 2 weeks my estimated delivery was on November. From August it has changed to December. So now my current EDD is December. But it disappeared for two days because of an informatics problem, my order was changed to E5CD and estimated delivery 20th of September. I talked to my Tesla sales manager and It changed to the original order and EDD December.

 

[eivissa]

When is expected the first delivers of these new cars E5LD?

We dont know for sure, but usually it takes Tesla around three months between certifying a new battery and delivering it to clients. November/December looks promising therefore.

I mean when are we going to have the first range and charging results

WLTP range is set at 614km, real world is probably 400km. The charging curve is what we are all eager to see.

Maybe the people who order EU the 614Km WLTP is not from LG and those cars are coming from USA with Panasonic?

All rumors point to made in China cars for the rest of the year. Even some Tesla employees have stated this on the phone, though this always tends to be the most unreliable source. We know that Panasonic is shipping their batteries to China to be put into the M3 Performance and that the E5LD is only certified for the Long Range, so there is a good chance that in Q4 we see MIC M3's as E5LD LR and E3LD Performance. This is more likely than Panasonic delivering more batteries to China to also include the LR from there. Again...speculation with a bit of logic applied.

And that's why people from Australia or other markets are still viewing the model 3 with 580Km WLTP?

I wouldnt know anything about their advertised ranges, markets, battery history...

 

[Matt125]

Australia is getting the old packs because it is RHD just like the UK. I think that's likely to be the reason. They are prioritising the new batteries for LHD markets. Not surprising given that the LHD markets have always been prioritised for new Teslas - happened with the Model 3 and is happening again with the Model Y.

 

[ro_explorer]

Hi everyone. My first post on this forum but I'm shadowing it for quite some time now.

I got my Freemont built Model 3 LR at the beginning of June 2021 and I have so far about 9000Km with it (I live in Sweden - so it is the European market).
During the first week of ownership I received my bluetooth dongle and I was able to hook up SMT to it. At that time (probably 300 Km or so of driving with it, barely on second charge) the Nominal full pack parameter was showing 79.2 kwh. No matter what I've done since then I have not managed to see that one going up, quite the opposite.
My charge pattern is on AC 11kw and I try to plug it in at around 40% and charge it to 90% (every few days in the current usage regime).
For the past ~3000Km I drove long distances in my vacation (300-350 Km segments) and I used only superchargers V2 and V3 from ~20% up to 90% per charging session.

A couple of days back I saw the Nominal full pack at 77.2 kwh and I decided to go with the "BMS reset" procedure I read here on this very topic .... so I drained the battery down to 2% ... let it sleep for about one hour, then plugged it in and I charged it up to about 70% (I wanted more but it was already late in the night).

Today I saw the Nominal full pack at 77kwh ... 0.2kwh less compared to yesterday. What the hell is goung on ? Where are the top 5kwh of my almost brand new battery ?

Please give me some reasonable explanations of what I'm seeing because so far I tend to think the battery is going south ...

Brand new the 100% battery was showing 570Km if I was switching the display to distance ... and today's max is 565Km.

This is a snapshot from the SMT with the relevant parameters:

 

[eivissa]

Hi everyone. My first post on this forum but I'm shadowing it for quite some time now.

I got my Freemont built Model 3 LR at the beginning of June 2021 and I have so far about 9000Km with it (I live in Sweden - so it is the European market).
During the first week of ownership I received my bluetooth dongle and I was able to hook up SMT to it. At that time (probably 300 Km or so of driving with it, barely on second charge) the Nominal full pack parameter was showing 79.2 kwh. No matter what I've done since then I have not managed to see that one going up, quite the opposite.
My charge pattern is on AC 11kw and I try to plug it in at around 40% and charge it to 90% (every few days in the current usage regime).
For the past ~3000Km I drove long distances in my vacation (300-350 Km segments) and I used only superchargers V2 and V3 from ~20% up to 90% per charging session.

A couple of days back I saw the Nominal full pack at 77.2 kwh and I decided to go with the "BMS reset" procedure I read here on this very topic .... so I drained the battery down to 2% ... let it sleep for about one hour, then plugged it in and I charged it up to about 70% (I wanted more but it was already late in the night).

Today I saw the Nominal full pack at 77kwh ... 0.2kwh less compared to yesterday. What the hell is goung on ? Where are the top 5kwh of my almost brand new battery ?

Please give me some reasonable explanations of what I'm seeing because so far I tend to think the battery is going south ...

Brand new the 100% battery was showing 570Km if I was switching the display to distance ... and today's max is 565Km.

This is a snapshot from the SMT with the relevant parameters:

View attachment 697841

I mean I knew that 90% SoC is prone to calibrate a low capacity over time, but damn this is way more than I would have expected. Not to say that there is something else going on, but I would start with a 100% charge and then daily limiting the charges to 60% to see how the capacity changes over time. With those 3L packs I saw great results within two weeks. Mine has started at 79,3 and is now fluctuating around 81.0, though fully charged it can to 82,0. So exactly what to expect from this pack. This is strictly limiting it to 60% and only going higher for a long journey.

 

[ro_explorer]

With those 3L packs I saw great results within two weeks.

Many thanks for the fast reply.

I have not thought about this approach. Something to test apparently. I'll set my max charge to 60% for the next couple of weeks then ... the vacation is over and 60% should be plenty for my daily needs. Should I let it go down to 40% or less before charging it back to 60%? Or just charge it when I get home no matter the SOC?

 

[Jeremy3292]

I mean I knew that 90% SoC is prone to calibrate a low capacity over time, but damn this is way more than I would have expected. Not to say that there is something else going on, but I would start with a 100% charge and then daily limiting the charges to 60% to see how the capacity changes over time. With those 3L packs I saw great results within two weeks. Mine has started at 79,3 and is now fluctuating around 81.0, though fully charged it can to 82,0. So exactly what to expect from this pack. This is strictly limiting it to 60% and only going higher for a long journey.

Can you expound on this further in regards to the SoC for a Fremont M3?

 

[eivissa]

Should I let it go down to 40% or less before charging it back to 60%?

I usually only charge my car every second day when it is down to 30-20% up to 60% and repeat.

Can you expound on this further in regards to the SoC for a Fremont M3

There are many theories on what factors have an impact on the BMS capacity (nominal full pack).

Outside temperature: colder temperatures = up / warmer temperatures down.

DC charging: frequent = down / little to none = up.

Daily SoC Limit: 50-60% = up / 80-90% down.

SoC variations: allowing the car to sleep at the same SoC = down / sleep at different SoC = up.

There are factors that are out of your control, but others are easily doable in a day to day routine like setting the SoC Limit to 60% and charging the car when getting to 20%. Allowing it to sleep without sentry at different SoC states in between.

That is how I got my 2020 M3 Performance from 72kWh up to 77kWh and both my 2021 M3 Performance from 79kWh the peak 82kWh with no loss of capacity at all, even after 10.000km. This is no proof that there is no degradation, but it seems the car stays in good health.