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Mercedes approved for ACTUAL self driving in the USA. And will accept responsibility.

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...Currently the Mercedes system (at least as released in US) only allows interaction with the vehicle screen, not with mobile devices.

"While Drive Pilot is active, the driver can take their mind off the traffic and focus on certain secondary activities such as reading a book, using their mobile, or accessing applications on the vehicle's main display that are otherwise blocked when driving"

They can do activities that allow them to get back to driving when the system asked. That means a driver cannot sleep but otherwise cell phone is fine.
 
I'd love to know how a typical CHP officer can tell the difference between an L3 system and everybody else. You'll easily get a ticket if they see you do this:

While Drive Pilot is active, the driver can take their mind off the traffic and focus on certain secondary activities such as reading a book, using their mobile...

In an ideal world, police would get a memo on new rules of the road.

Currently, it's easy to spot an L3: Mercedes, not Tesla, at a very slow speed on freeway, not high speed, not on city streets.

It'll be harder when the L3 will increase to 130 km/h or 80 MPH.
 
"While Drive Pilot is active, the driver can take their mind off the traffic and focus on certain secondary activities such as reading a book, using their mobile, or accessing applications on the vehicle's main display that are otherwise blocked when driving"

They can do activities that allow them to get back to driving when the system asked. That means a driver cannot sleep but otherwise cell phone is fine.
That is article author embellishment, Mercedes doesn't actually say that in their release about California approval, they only explicitly say certain locked vehicle display functions are now allowed:

"During a conditionally automated journey, DRIVE PILOT allows the driver to take their mind off the traffic and focus on certain secondary activities2. When DRIVE PILOT is active, applications can be enabled on the vehicle's integrated central display that are otherwise blocked while driving.
...
2. Which secondary activities of the driver are legally permissible depends on the respective national road traffic regulations."


I can't find the article that mentions it on the spot, but it is explicitly illegal in California to use your mobile device in your hand while driving, other than if it is an integrated screen, mounted GPS or the action requires only a single swipe or tap, and the law currently does not have an exception for L3 cars. As such Mercedes indicated only the vehicle screen usage is explicitly allowed.
 
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I agree with many things you say, but this ain't one of them. An autonomous car does well to stop in the lane because that's obviously better than barreling down the road and hitting something. But stopping in the roadway is very definitely in the category of Unsafe. In my state, it's even legal under certain circumstances (accidents, emergencies, etc), but that doesn't make it safe. Even stopping on the shoulder is unsafe, and folks die that way.

I don't mean to be pedantic here. Driving is inherently unsafe, but stopping on a highway is orders of magnitude worse.
I appreciate your thoughtful comment as always JB. In this case, I apologize as I may not have explained myself properly. Let me try to clear it up.

Advanced L2 (like Tesla) systems are driver assist, where the driver is in full control of the vehicle, and letting the car handle some of the driving tasks while being completely alert and ready to take over in an instant if required by the system (red wheel alert), or to correct a bad decision from the ADAS system.

L3 systems (like Mercedes) are also driver assist, with more of the driving tasks being handed off to the car to the point where the driver can take focus away from the road until the system requires them to resume control with a small warning window (usually 7-10 seconds).

In both cases the car is not autonomous, has a limited ODD, and still requires a driver in the driver's seat to handle driving tasks when required. And, in both cases, has a specific safety protocol to handle emergencies. Now, let's talk about how both handle emergencies:

Advanced L2, while enabled, will periodically check to ensure the driver is paying attention. This is accomplished through steering wheel torque (Tesla), Eye Monitoring (Tesla, Mercedes, and many other manufacturers with Lane Keeping + Adaptive Cruise Control), or steering wheel contact (typically capacitive sensors on the wheel). If those systems do not detect a driver, or the driver fails to comply with the requests to confirm attention, the default position of the car is to assume the driver is dead. This is the "lowest common denominator", and highest safety margin the car can provide. Since an Advanced L2 is limited in its ODD, it does not have the capability to safely change lanes, exit a freeway, find a safe parking spot and park the car on its own, without a driver to take over in the event of system error/failure/unanticipated maneuver/poor interaction with other vehicles/etc. Forcing the car to attempt this could end up creating a much worse situation than its default behavior, which is to engage the hazards and slow the vehicle down to a stop in its lane.

L3, while enabled, does not require driver interaction or attention, but does have a limited ODD, and does require a driver to take over when straying outside the ODD. Once the system determines it is straying outside the ODD (such as traffic lightening up and moving faster than 35MPH in the case of Mercedes), the car must hand over control to the driver with a short warning (typically 7-10 seconds). During those 7-10 seconds, monitoring systems engage to ensure the driver is paying attention, including capacitive wheel sensors and eye tracking sensors. If the driver fails to take over after the warning period, the car's safety protocol engages, like the L2, and assumes the driver is dead. And also, like the L2, the L3 system does not have the capability to safely change lanes, exit a freeway, find a safe parking spot and park the car on its own, as this is outside its ODD. The safest thing for it to do is to engage the hazards and slow the vehicle down to a stop in its lane.

Yes, I agree with the points made here that the best, safest solution is to change lanes, exit the freeway, and find a parking spot. However, this is beyond the ODD of Advanced L2 and L3 systems. They are not designed to be autonomous. This is the purview of L4+ systems. However, even L4 has an ODD and in some cases will simply engage the hazards and slow to a stop in its lane.

Does stopping in a lane with hazards blinking cause a potential safety hazard to drivers around it? Yes. However, this happens all the time with human drivers with non-ADAS cars. It's common to see a car stopped on the road, with cars slowing down and changing lanes to go around them. This is usually for an accident, or mechanical failure of the vehicle, but in some cases can be for a medical emergency too.

I will preface this next point with the fact I have not researched various laws in every state, but using a standard "reasonable" test, I would imagine that every state allows for emergencies beyond the driver's control for them to stop in their lane, such as a mechanical failure or medical emergency. The only requirement would be, if the driver was still conscious, they put on their hazards. I'm guessing the laws/rules would state something like "where possible, pull over safely." The operative words being "where possible".

Now, does that make the L2 and L3 systems, with their limited ODD, unsafe if they cannot hand back control to the driver? My argument would be no. They are acting reasonably in a potential emergency, where they assume the driver has died, and they cannot safely exit the freeway and find a parking spot. Trying to do so, or just continuing at speed in their lane, could create a much worse situation than stopping with hazards flashing.
 
That is article author embellishment, Mercedes doesn't actually say that in their release about California approval, they only explicitly say certain locked vehicle display functions are now allowed:

"During a conditionally automated journey, DRIVE PILOT allows the driver to take their mind off the traffic and focus on certain secondary activities2. When DRIVE PILOT is active, applications can be enabled on the vehicle's integrated central display that are otherwise blocked while driving.
...
2. Which secondary activities of the driver are legally permissible depends on the respective national road traffic regulations."
This may be old information but:

Sadly, due to California laws, drivers aren't permitted to look at their phones even with a Level 3 system active, which means no TikTok scrolling while stuck in traffic -- unless Mercedes creates an in-car TikTok app, at least. The car has a driver-facing camera that tracks eye and facial movement, so it'll prompt you turn off Drive Pilot if you start using your phone. But drivers can use the S-Class's infotainment screen to use web browsers, watch videos on YouTube or streaming services, play games like Tetris, or use messaging apps and email features.

So you can't hold a phone, but go ahead and stream videos and play videogames and use email. It will apparently notice if you close your eyes. Just don't touch the distracting cellphone /s


Good luck getting all the drivers learning how what is legally permissible depends on the respective national road traffic regulations. I hope Mercedes doesn't invalidate crashes if you were doing "the wrong secondary activities". Perhaps that just affects what kind of ticket CHP can write you.
 
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This may be old information but:

Sadly, due to California laws, drivers aren't permitted to look at their phones even with a Level 3 system active, which means no TikTok scrolling while stuck in traffic -- unless Mercedes creates an in-car TikTok app, at least. The car has a driver-facing camera that tracks eye and facial movement, so it'll prompt you turn off Drive Pilot if you start using your phone. But drivers can use the S-Class's infotainment screen to use web browsers, watch videos on YouTube or streaming services, play games like Tetris, or use messaging apps and email features.

So you can't hold a phone, but go ahead and stream videos and play videogames and use email. Just don't touch the distracting cellphone /s


Good luck getting all the drivers learning how what is legally permissible depends on the respective national road traffic regulations. I hope Mercedes doesn't invalidate crashes if you were doing "the wrong secondary activities". It will apparently notice if you close your eyes.
Yes, it was either that article or a similar one, glad you were able to dig it up. I just remembered it because it stood out to me and it made the feature much less useful given how horrible most integrated infotainment systems are, plus the fact for the most common business user, they would much rather be using their phone, tablet, or laptop if they were to do some work while this was active.
 
Yes, it was either that article or a similar one, glad you were able to dig it up. I just remembered it because it stood out to me and it made the feature much less useful given how horrible most integrated infotainment systems are, plus the fact for the most common business user, they would much rather be using their phone, tablet, or laptop if they were to do some work while this was active.
Agreed - and this demonstrates once again how lawmakers and our policies are glacial compared to how fast technology progresses. Traffic laws are going to have to be rewritten with L3+ systems in mind. Gaia knows when that will happen. :)
 
Yes, it was either that article or a similar one, glad you were able to dig it up. I just remembered it because it stood out to me and it made the feature much less useful given how horrible most integrated infotainment systems are, plus the fact for the most common business user, they would much rather be using their phone, tablet, or laptop if they were to do some work while this was active.
So I'm going to fast-forward to the end. If you have Drive Pilot engaged, that means that the car has agreed it was ok with its ODD that it could do that. From that moment until Drive Pilot disengages, no matter what you do Mercedes will accept liability. Up to and including you falling asleep, going to the backseat, getting out of the car, whatever. It will attempt to notify you but if that fails it will bring the car to a stop. At that point, I believe, Drive Pilot is legally disengaged and you are liable again - helpfully just as the car has come to a stop in the middle of the highway. (Well they may disagree with the getting out of the seat thing, I don't know. It doesn't SAY that's forbidden. They seem to be ok with you falling asleep or being unresponsive).

edit: to be clear, Drive Pilot does FORBID you from doing anything PROHIBITED, which is why it will shut itself down if it detects you are doing something wrong. However I believe that even if you are doing PROHIBITED things, Drive Pilot is still legally liable until it has shut down, so you have 10-15 seconds in which you can be doing anything at all. I don't know why this is important, but just a point I wanted to make, you're not liable until it has turned off. I think.

Mercedes Drive Pilot PDF

“Behaviors that would inhibit the fallback-ready user’s ability to take over driving in a timely manner, such as sleeping, are prohibited and, when detected, will cause the system to issue a series of escalating warnings. If those warnings are ignored DRIVE PILOT will automatically bring the vehicle to a controlled stop while turning on the hazard lamps. If the driver remains unresponsive, DRIVE PILOT will secure the vehicle from rolling away, seek aid by placing an emergency call to our response center, and prepares the vehicle for emergency assistance by unlocking the doors.”


Other boring legal stuff from the PDF:
Mercedes-Benz places the utmost importance on compliance with legal requirements and the maintenance of road safety.

Given that human driving is replaced by DRIVE PILOT while it is engaged, there will be requirements and standards that need to be adapted in order to apply to a vehicle when it is not being operated by a human driver. For example, while it is not safe for drivers to engage in distracting behaviors while operating a vehicle, the same is not true for fallback-ready users:

The fallback-ready user may use the in-vehicle multimedia system for communications, productivity and/or entertainment purposes, because DRIVE PILOT is operating the vehicle. For this reason, state and local laws against distracted driving may need to be modified to distinguish between a driver and fallback-ready user. Mercedes-Benz, along with other ADS and vehicle manufacturers, are working with state and local authorities to identify requirements that may need to be adapted for vehicles being operated by a Level 3 ADS feature, such as DRIVE PILOT.

With regard to traffic law compliance, Mercedes-Benz follows the “designed to comply” principle adopted by the California Department of Motor Vehicles in its deployment regulations for “automated vehicles” published in 2017. This principle recognizes that, like a human driver, an ADS will, under certain circumstances, justifiably prioritize rules in order to maintain driving safety and complete a trip. Such actions might include crossing a solid lane marking – when safe to do so – in order to avoid being side-swiped by another vehicle encroaching on its lane. Other states have since adopted similar regulatory language. Their foresight is appreciated and commended.
 
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So I'm going to fast-forward to the end. If you have DrivePilot engaged, that means that the car has agreed it was ok with its ODD that it could do that. From that moment until DrivePilot disengages, no matter what you do Mercedes will accept liability. Up to and including you falling asleep, going to the backseat, getting out of the car, whatever. It will attempt to notify you but if that fails it will bring the car to a stop. At that point, I believe, DrivePilot is legally disengaged and you are liable again - helpfully just as the car has come to a stop in the middle of the highway. (Well they may disagree with the getting out of the seat thing, I don't know. It doesn't SAY that's forbidden. They seem to be ok with you falling asleep or being unresponsive).


Mercedes DrivePilot PDF

“Behaviors that would inhibit the fallback-ready user’s ability to take over driving in a timely manner, such as sleeping, are prohibited and, when detected, will cause the system to issue a series of escalating warnings. If those warnings are ignored DRIVE PILOT will automatically bring the vehicle to a controlled stop while turning on the hazard lamps. If the driver remains unresponsive, DRIVE PILOT will secure the vehicle from rolling away, seek aid by placing an emergency call to our response center, and prepares the vehicle for emergency assistance by unlocking the doors.”


Other boring legal stuff from the PDF:
Mercedes-Benz places the utmost importance on compliance with legal requirements and the maintenance of road safety.

Given that human driving is replaced by DRIVE PILOT while it is engaged, there will be requirements and standards that need to be adapted in order to apply to a vehicle when it is not being operated by a human driver. For example, while it is not safe for drivers to engage in distracting behaviors while operating a vehicle, the same is not true for fallback-ready users:

The fallback-ready user may use the in-vehicle multimedia system for communications, productivity and/or entertainment purposes, because DRIVE PILOT is operating the vehicle. For this reason, state and local laws against distracted driving may need to be modified to distinguish between a driver and fallback-ready user. Mercedes-Benz, along with other ADS and vehicle manufacturers, are working with state and local authorities to identify requirements that may need to be adapted for vehicles being operated by a Level 3 ADS feature, such as DRIVE PILOT.

With regard to traffic law compliance, Mercedes-Benz follows the “designed to comply” principle adopted by the California Department of Motor Vehicles in its deployment regulations for “automated vehicles” published in 2017. This principle recognizes that, like a human driver, an ADS will, under certain circumstances, justifiably prioritize rules in order to maintain driving safety and complete a trip. Such actions might include crossing a solid lane marking – when safe to do so – in order to avoid being side-swiped by another vehicle encroaching on its lane. Other states have since adopted similar regulatory language. Their foresight is appreciated and commended.
The problem with that argument is as per your own link, any activities that would impede your ability to take over within 7-10-ish seconds is explicitly not allowed (this includes sleeping), so you are technically using the system against the manufacturer instructions. This can open you up to liability that the manufacturer may not necessarily be able to indemnify you from (even if they desire to, which they might not).

This is especially true if such activity is a contributing factor (for example you end up not responding in time and the accident happens after system has already disengaged).
 
The problem with that argument is as per your own link, any activities that would impede your ability to take over within 7-10-ish seconds is explicitly not allowed (this includes sleeping), so you are technically using the system against the manufacturer instructions. This can open you up to liability that the manufacturer may not necessarily be able to indemnify you from (even if they desire to, which they might not).

This is especially true if such activity is a contributing factor (for example you end up not responding in time and the accident happens after system has already disengaged).
Yes, once the system has disengaged, you are liable for the accident. Which is why it's so wonderful that it will stop you in the middle of the highway and say "over to you". But I also agree that there isn't much else it can do at this stage, crossing lanes just puts the car at more risk than Mercedes is prepared to take at this point.

I don't know how liable you are for failing to respond as a "fall-back driver". I still think that the wording says/implies that you are not liable until the Drive Pilot system has actually turned off. Otherwise they would sue you for having that heart attack, which would not be a good look for them. If you just fail to respond for 7 seconds because you're closing Angry Birds, but then you do respond in time to satisfy the DMS, you weren't liable for any crash that happened during those 7 warning seconds. I think they are liable until it's turned off, no matter what. Probably at some point they will add the disclaimers about "using the system properly and not being a goofball. Stay in your seat! We don't cover you abusing the system" But I don't see that disclaimer yet.
 
Yes, once the system has disengaged, you are liable for the accident. Which is why it's so wonderful that it will stop you in the middle of the highway and say "over to you". But I also agree that there isn't much else it can do at this stage, crossing lanes just puts the car at more risk than Mercedes is prepared to take at this point.

I don't know how liable you are for failing to respond as a "fall-back driver". I still think that the wording says/implies that you are not liable until the Drive Pilot system has actually turned off. Otherwise they would sue you for having that heart attack, which would not be a good look for them. If you just fail to respond for 7 seconds because you're closing Angry Birds, but then you do respond in time to satisfy the DMS, you weren't liable for any crash that happened during those 7 warning seconds. I think they are liable until it's turned off, no matter what. Probably at some point they will add the disclaimers about "using the system properly and not being a goofball. Stay in your seat! We don't cover you abusing the system" But I don't see that disclaimer yet.
It doesn't matter if manufacturer might also take shared responsibility, I'm talking about if the other party sues you, as commonly happens (they sue every party involved even if they might only play a minor role). They can point to your negligence in using the system, which may bring you partial liability. There may also be offenses brought on by government (instead of. private party), which the manufacturer won't necessarily be able to cover for you.

Also, as discussed a lot for L2 systems, there will eventually be cases where the system puts you in a dangerous situation, and disengages, making it inactive while the accident happens, but yet the system is a contributing factor.
 
Yes, I agree with the points made here that the best, safest solution is to change lanes, exit the freeway, and find a parking spot. However, this is beyond the ODD of Advanced L2 and L3 systems. They are not designed to be autonomous. This is the purview of L4+ systems. However, even L4 has an ODD and in some cases will simply engage the hazards and slow to a stop in its lane.
I was assuming that you were saying that stopping in the lane was a good and proper policy. If you believe that L2 and L3 systems aren't capable of pulling to the shoulder and stopping - or even something more advanced such as going to the nearest hospital or police station - then so be it. I just don't see L2 systems being limited in capability. There could be an L2 robotaxi because the only important part of L2 ultimately is whether anyone is willing to take liability in place of the driver. On the flip side, it's pretty difficult to reach L5 with something as primitive as dumb cruise control. I'm not sure many companies would accept liability for that level of autonomy. If L5 requires the removal of the steering wheel then I guess the car would be limited to runs across the Bonneville Salt Flats.
 
I often hear people just saying over and over that AP FSD is just a party trick. Compared to the MBZ current system that (MBZ) system is the true party truck.

Are the hardware we need to do L4/L5 exists and the parts are well cheap enough. But yet most companies are seriously crippling what the car can do. The coding and special some sort of advance AI is really what’s holding this all bad. That’s where all the cost and complexity it.

We need a universial approach that everyone can work together on to get this done in the next 5 years instead of 20 years. Most every maker has shown demos or prototypes that are capable of some impressive capabilities. Audi for example has some serious hardcore parts on their current 7 and 8 series cars not to mention lab prototypes shown for the last 5-10 years even more impressive.

Everyone is just lagging on development, implementation and sales.
 
L4 & L5 while fully automated does not require the manufacturer to take on the liability 🤷🏽‍♂️ No need.
Just because SAE J3016 doesn't talk about liability, doesn't mean consumers and legislators won't when/if the technology becomes available in privately owned cars in the next decade.

Are you willing to send your kids in a L4 vehicle that no one is responsible for the functionality of? I sure wouldn't use that service or product.
 
Huh? Who is responsible when no one is in the vehicle while it is driving around?
It's a gray area, the law is ill equipped so far to handle it. For example, in California, police can't even ticket driverless L4/L5 vehicles for moving violations.

His point is taking over liability is not a requirement for the definition. It's not even required for L3. A manufacturer can declare their car as L3 and still require the driver to retain liability for the vehicle. It's entirely optional for the manufacturer to take liability.
 
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Just because SAE J3016 doesn't talk about liability, doesn't mean consumers and legislators won't when/if the technology becomes available in privately owned cars in the next decade.

Are you willing to send your kids in a L4 vehicle that no one is responsible for the functionality of? I sure wouldn't use that service or product.
That is what your insurance is for. If you don’t want it, don’t buy or use it. 🤷🏽‍♂️ Not hard. See?
 
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