Mercedes approved for ACTUAL self driving in the USA. And will accept responsibility.

[2101Guy]

Mercedes-Benz Gets Approval to Deploy Level 3 Driving Tech in Nevada

Mercedes-Benz is the first automaker to receive regulatory approval to launch a Level 3 driver assistance system in Nevada.

www.thedrive.com

“Mercedes is the first automaker to receive such approval in the U.S., beating out names like Tesla, General Motors, Ford, and even Honda”

 

[bjhinkle]

Is it limited to highway or can it actually handle city driving? It says any other places it’s currently approved they are limited to 37mph. I would be surprised if they passed Tesla’s “AI” training in stealth with such fewer real world miles of experience data.

 

[Tdriver]

This approval is only for driving in the state of Nevada.

 

[paaltio]

Is it limited to highway or can it actually handle city driving? It says any other places it’s currently approved they are limited to 37mph. I would be surprised if they passed Tesla’s “AI” training in stealth with such fewer real world miles of experience data.

Taking liability is the ultimate test of how far a company trusts its own system. Still waiting for Tesla to put their stake down. We will continue waiting until (well into) HW4 it seems.

 

[Cal1]

So a few years ago I asked about Tesla taking liability when they claim FSD is done. Surprised at how many thumbs down I got! I thought why but didn't followup figuring that it would be pointless. The plain fact is that Tesla will have to. If brakes or steering mechanisms fail (due to defect) it always falls on the manufacturer not the driver. Always. To assume owners will somehow just accept that if FSD kills someone or causes an accident is just nuts. Tesla may try to sidestep this by never saying anything but that will not last. There's too much documented advertisement claims to realistically think otherwise.

 

[Tam]

Is it limited to highway

Yes.

or can it actually handle city driving?

No

It says any other places it’s currently approved they are limited to 37mph.

Correct. Highway L3 up to the speed of 37 MPH. In a traffic jam, it can predict when the flow will be above 37 MPH by sensing the speed of the cars beyond the one you see and it will give you plenty of time to stop playing on the videogame so you can take over when the speed exceeds 37 MPH. At that point, it becomes L2 just like Tesla highway FSD and Mercedes does NOT take responsibility for L2.

I would be surprised if they passed Tesla’s “AI” training in stealth with such fewer real world miles of experience data.

Tesla is generalized "everywhere."

Mercedes L3 is very restricted to highway traffic jams.

The difference is responsibility: Tesla doesn't take any responsibility at any speed. Mercedes does with the speed of L3.

Once L3 is matured, it's possible to advance to L4 like Waymo and Cruise (not everywhere but only in a geofenced area).

 

[Bitdepth]

So a few years ago I asked about Tesla taking liability when they claim FSD is done. Surprised at how many thumbs down I got! I thought why but didn't followup figuring that it would be pointless. The plain fact is that Tesla will have to. If brakes or steering mechanisms fail (due to defect) it always falls on the manufacturer not the driver. Always. To assume owners will somehow just accept that if FSD kills someone or causes an accident is just nuts. Tesla may try to sidestep this by never saying anything but that will not last. There's too much documented advertisement claims to realistically think otherwise.

That's what the SAE levels address, you can't claim to be L3 - L5 without assuming liability. That is one of the litmus test for how confident a manufacturer is in their system.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Very limited level 3 driving, on pre-mapped highways only, at limited speeds.... It's a milestone but it's super narrow compared to what Tesla is trying to accomplish.

 

[starmap]

I am confused. Is this suppose to make me excited about MB?

 

[Bitdepth]

Very limited level 3 driving

There is no such thing as very limited L3 driving. You are either L3 or you are not.

, on pre-mapped highways only, at limited speeds....

Also known as an operational design domain, ODD.

It's a milestone but it's super narrow compared to what Tesla is trying to accomplish.

Tesla is not trying to accomplish L3 autonomy. They are not in the same category. It is a major milestone in consumer car autonomy. If it is so easy, let Tesla gain L3 status for autopilot on highways.

 

[Tam]

I am confused. Is this suppose to make me excited about MB?

Yes. Although Tesla FSD is for "everywhere," but you still have to hold your steering wheel everywhere.

 

[Cal1]

That's what the SAE levels address, you can't claim to be L3 - L5 without assuming liability. That is one of the litmus test for how confident a manufacturer is in their system.

I really don't care what level they claim (not sarcasm). I'm just focused on what Tesla said when they convinced me to buy. Hands free driving, don't even need to look at the road, display anything. It's better than it was but not there yet. Again not sarcasm but splitting hairs about this stuff is ignoring the facts. It's just suppose to work. Don't even get me started about the Robo-taxi claims that I'd be able make $ with my car while I was working! I have no idea how Tesla can claim any FSD revenue if it doesn't work based on their sales advertising.

 

[dbldwn02]

I really don't care what level they claim (not sarcasm). I'm just focused on what Tesla said when they convinced me to buy. Hands free driving, don't even need to look at the road, display anything. It's better than it was but not there yet. Again not sarcasm but splitting hairs about this stuff is ignoring the facts. It's just suppose to work. Don't even get me started about the Robo-taxi claims that I'd be able make $ with my car while I was working! I have no idea how Tesla can claim any FSD revenue if it doesn't work based on their sales advertising.

Because they stopped advertising RoboTaxi three years ago. After they nerfed the description of FSD, it's been super easy to claim rev. Especially at 15k a pop.

Yes...that means they probably won't ever deliver the 2016 FSD description but that was only $2 or 3k

 

[2101Guy]

I am confused. Is this suppose to make me excited about MB?

Nope. But letting you know there is ONE company in the USA who has knocked down the first door in accepting responsibility for their autonomous driving product.

And it’s not from the company who promised 1 million robotaxis on the road by 2019…

 

[Tam]

@WarpedOne : I see that you clicked thumb down. You may think Tesla is hands-free but numerous FSD beta owners have reported that they are being penalized for not holding the steering wheel correctly.

 

[Tam]

That means cops will have to be trained to continue to ticket Tesla drivers and not EQS ones while at the speed of 37 mph or below on highways for "distracted driving."

 

[Tam]

That's what the SAE levels address, you can't claim to be L3 - L5 without assuming liability. That is one of the litmus test for how confident a manufacturer is in their system.

There are scientific and technical responsibilities: The machine takes over the driving responsibility from humans while it operates at Level 3.

There's legal responsibility: US laws do not hold L3 manufacturers responsible for accidents/damages during operation. You have to go to court in an accident and argue that the laws should.

What Mercedes does here, to take responsibility for potential L3 accidents, is voluntary and not because of US laws.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Ok, so I'll just call out the elephant in the room: 37 mph on a highway?? Living in Canada maybe I'm converting it wrong, but isn't that incredibly slow for a highway? As in so slow that you can't use it at all unless there is a traffic jam?

 

[Tam]

Ok, so I'll just call out the elephant in the room: 37 mph on a highway?? Living in Canada maybe I'm converting it wrong, but isn't that incredibly slow for a highway? As in so slow that you can't use it at all unless there is a traffic jam?

You are correct. It may not be helpful for many drivers, but it's a bonus. It's the first step in autonomous driving: It should be crash-free, maybe not at high speed but at least at low speed.

Currently, Tesla is not reimbursing for any damages while doing Auto Park/Summon. That's a very slow speed, and Tesla still refuses to take responsibility.

Mercedes is working on Intelligent Park Pilot with no humans inside the car, crash-free:

Notice that if you don't need L3, the L2 is already included. Just because they add L3 doesn't mean you would lose L2.

 

[MrBadger]

The “37mph” limitation for UNECE R157 was recently removed. How this affects vehicles, such as the previous approved Mercedes model already approved under 157 I don’t know but is moot in USA as I believe they have opted out of 157.

But if updated type approval is given this may soon filter down to the parts of the world that do subscribe to UNECE R157 and use that as a basis of vehicle type approval which would effectively allow NoA style L3 functionality (ALKS) on restricted highways which would fulfill a significant use case for many.