Mercedes S-class vs Tesla

[voltage]

My only reference is my own Tesla - so perhaps the newer Model S cars have improved on the ride quality.

Raven suspension is awesome. Much smoother and more controlled vs many of the “luxury” cars I have driven.

One point missing in the discussion. A Model S is $80k. Mercedes S Class starts at $94k with no options. The yearly cost of the Mercedes is thousands more. Like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[AMPd]

I came into my S from a BMW E60 M5, the one with the V10 engine and 507 horsepower. It will go 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. And on good days, it gets 11MPG. The Tesla is faster from 0-60, smoother, makes less noise, and I don't even have to pay for its fuel. 0-80 is also the range where I drive it the most, I rarely go supersonic in either car, and in that range the Tesla shines. The air suspension is so good, really smooths out any road bumps. Having access to the app to heat my car seats in the morning, to summon it when needed, it's just so great. Probably the best car I've owned. I did really love the BMW seats though, they were designed so well, and you would think so with 22 different power functions to set it just right. Everything else, Tesla wins.

Hey! I own the E60 M5! I love it!
Saying the model s is smoother isnt saying much, a horse and buggy is smoother than that single clutch smg.
I agree on the seats, mine have very little cracking, they’ve held up very well over the years. The entire interior has held up well, I have absolutely no rattles or creaks as opposed to all 3 model s’s I’ve had had dash rattles that just couldn’t be resolved.

Does your car really make less noise?

I've been in a few 5er and I found them to be way, way quieter than any Telsa I've been in.

He might mean the power train, because as far as wind noise, my M5 sounds bulletproof on the highway, very little wind noise. The car just feels more solid and thicker, the door closing noise is a nice heavy thud, although I have soft closing doors so I don’t usually slam them.

 

[kingkong5]

Hey! I own the E60 M5! I love it!
Saying the model s is smoother isnt saying much, a horse and buggy is smoother than that single clutch smg.
I agree on the seats, mine have very little cracking, they’ve held up very well over the years. The entire interior has held up well, I have absolutely no rattles or creaks as opposed to all 3 model s’s I’ve had had dash rattles that just couldn’t be resolved.

He might mean the power train, because as far as wind noise, my M5 sounds bulletproof on the highway, very little wind noise. The car just feels more solid and thicker, the door closing noise is a nice heavy thud, although I have soft closing doors so I don’t usually slam them.

yeah, nice! I still have mine too, 2008 E60 M5. I agree on the interior holding up well, and yes the noise was related to the engine noise and not just pure cabin environment. How cool, I have the soft close doors too. Love the heads up display, the stereo system, it's a great car of course, but the Tesla Model S is one worthy vehicle.

 

[AMPd]

So what does that even mean for those racing badges like AMG or BMW M?

Ya they are a status symbol, but its still an ICE. And with that status symbol you get to be slower than a similar priced Tesla. I have a good feeling the dual motor Tesla Model 3 is faster than the BMW M3 Lime Rock I used to drive. And it's like mid-tier Model 3 and its still faster than a top of the line BMW M3, it was a Lime Rock Edition.

AMG used to be cool 10-20 years ago, like if you wanted to be fast, then you have to get an AMG. But now you can get a Tesla, not care to go fast, but you still go fast.

I remember my dad would always complain not to floor it because it wastes gas / money. But flooring it in an EV, can anyone really complain about wasting money?

I’ll start off by saying I’m a loyal bmw m5 fan, as well as a fan of tesla. My garage will always have an M5 in it.

But I think you’re severely underestimating the M5, it’s slightly slower 0-60 than the P100DL 2.8 compared to 2.4
The quarter mile is also slower by .3 seconds
But when you’re driving it you really can’t feel that difference unless you’re a pro race car driver, so for the common folk the M5 is still very quick but also very luxurious.
Your preference may not be another persons preference.

 

[AMPd]

yeah, nice! I still have mine too, 2008 E60 M5. I agree on the interior holding up well, and yes the noise was related to the engine noise and not just pure cabin environment. How cool, I have the soft close doors too. Love the heads up display, the stereo system, it's a great car of course, but the Tesla Model S is one worthy vehicle.

Mine too is 2008, heads up display is nice.
I agree the model s technology wise is a giant leap forward, but that shouldn’t take anything away from the E60. That v10 is like no other. PITA, but still very nice piece of engineering.

 

[pilotSteve]

My wife owns a 2008 Lexus LS-460L and would not give it up for anything! Why? Its a VERY comfortable and fast (autobahn cruiser) car. Very smooth (for an ICE!) 6-speed automatic. Extended rear seat leg room (stretched wheelbase) amazingly comfortable for long legged people, leather seats have extensive adjustments (electric), are heated and cooled, with exquisite butter soft perforated white leather that has held up very well (looks like brand new after 10 years/50,000 miles, but we are low use owners for this car). 6-speed automatic, Mark Levinson superb sound system, etc.

Whats my point? Personally I prefer my S90D and always choose it for long trips or utility runs (fold the seats down and it carries an awesome amount of cardboard and paper recycling, bicycles, boxes, etc.).

Yet the butter smooth V8, quiet exhaust, refined suspension, sumptuous interior have their appeal, I must admit.

Someday Lexus will hopefully offer this sort of interior with a Tesla-like (maybe even licensed) drive train. That would be the only class of vehicle she would trade it for! And would own it for another 10+ years!

 

[geoffmanley]

it’s slightly slower 0-60 than the P100DL 2.8 compared to 2.4
The quarter mile is also slower by .3 seconds

Who's going to go into launch control mode at a red light? The P100D will likely hit sub 3 seconds without even going into ludicrous mode. In launch control mode the M5 is obnoxious and no one is going to use it outside a drag strip. And even then it will only barely keep up with the MS without ludicrous mode.

 

[AMPd]

Who's going to go into launch control mode at a red light? The P100D will likely hit sub 3 seconds without even going into ludicrous mode. In launch control mode the M5 is obnoxious and no one is going to use it outside a drag strip. And even then it will only barely keep up with the MS without ludicrous mode.

Really no one is going to do it? Well you said it therefore it’s fact.

 

[SilverGS]

I always find these discussions comparing the incumbent ICE luxury cars with the Model S and invariably most folks preferring the "luxury" (perceived or otherwise) of the ICE cars over the Model S. Also the other point is that the fit and finish of the ICE cars is better.

Knowing the above, I prefer the high tech feel and EV drivetrain of the Model S over any ICE equivalent simply because I am ok with the "lower" level of fit and finish and definitely prefer the superior smoothness/instantaneous torque of the EV drive train of the Model S over any ICE equivalent.

I don't think there is any right and wrong about anyone's preference. It's very personal. Its that simple.

 

[geoffmanley]

Really no one is going to do it? Well you said it therefore it’s fact.

Also, I was being generous by not mentioning the fact that even with the competition package the M5 is only capable of 3.1. Although without launch control mode on I doubt it could crack 4 seconds. It's simply not even in the same ballpark as the Model S.

 

[AMPd]

Also, I was being generous by not mentioning the fact that even with the competition package the M5 is only capable of 3.1. Although without launch control mode on I doubt it could crack 4 seconds. It's simply not even in the same ballpark as the Model S.

Car and Driver was able to get 2.8 out of the non competition package M5
2018 BMW M5 Test | Review | Car and Driver

Without launch control? But it has that. ... Oh are we making up scenarios now to further your point? Oh well without that it wouldn’t achieve this. And without gasoline it won’t drive yada yada yada.

.4 seconds is not exactly a different ballpark, but whatever makes you feel better is fine by me. I already said it all comes down to preference, everyone values different aspects of a vehicle differently.

 

[geoffmanley]

Ok, then, Car and Driver got 2.28 out of the MS if we are talking about that.

 

[AMPd]

Ok, then, Car and Driver got 2.28 out of the MS if we are talking about that.

Nice! So a .5 second difference. Not a different ballpark
Very very close, of course if we are talking about racing then I’m sure you are aware that the m5 would absolutely destroy the model s past a quarter mile. Or even from a rolling start at higher speeds.

 

[Uncle Paul]

The Mercedes flagship S Class is indeed a magnificent executive sedan. Has the gravitas, poise, interior opulance and curb presence that has made it so successful in the past.

But times have changed, and not it is not so cool to drive gas guzzling dinosaurs. The interior appeals to ego and sex appeal. Many older professionals buy them one after another, and put up with the service and fueling it needs so often.

Younger people have looked at both and would not be caught dead in an S Class. They are now choosing the Tesla Model S/X/3 in most cases. The current Model S is outselling the S Class in America, and even gaining buyers in the German Homeland.

The future belongs to Electric drive. Some will still prefer the old world craftmanship and luxury of the old ways, but the wind has shifted.

S Class will still hang in there for dignitaries and oil company executives, but it is no longer the car to be seen in.

There is a reason that exhaust pipes come out the rear of these cars. Owners do not want to smell and be subjected to their own emissions. They have no qualms about gassing the people behind them, as long as they do not need to smell their own poop.

 

[AMPd]

There is a reason that exhaust pipes come out the rear of these cars. Owners do not want to smell and be subjected to their own emissions. They have no qualms about gassing the people behind them, as long as they do not need to smell their own poop.

That’s not why at all! Do you really have no clue how an ice car is designed?
Having an exhaust in the front would be stupid, for one the hot gassed would damage the bumper as you drove. Another reason is you’d have no room for the emissions and noise control equipment. Unless you’re doing a loop from front to back to front...

 

[Uncle Paul]

Current gassers exhaust pipes often exit right through plastic bumpers. They are easy to shield against the heat. That's the point. In a world worried about global warming you want to pump all that hot gassious exhaust into the face of the people behind you, while you draw fresher air into your air conditioner vents located high, just below the windshield.

It would be more efficient for gassers to vent their exhaust gasses just behind the front wheels. Race cars do this. It is more efficient and does not require running an exhaust pipe all the way to the back. They do not do this in passenger cars because passengers would be subject to the noise, heat and smells coming from that shorter pipe.

I drove a Viper and previously a 64 Corvette with side pipes for years. They made the cars sound more agressive, but not appropriate for luxury sedans. The shorter pipes reduced weight and gave the driver instant feedback as to the engine operation, but looking back, they were pretty miserable.

The bottom line is that it is getting less and less acceptable for rich people to drive 10 mpg large sedans to simply get one person to their destination in style. Their time is coming to an end, but some find change hard to accept. Now they are looked upon as being arrogant and selfish.

 

[AMPd]

Current gassers exhaust pipes often exit right through plastic bumpers. They are easy to shield against the heat. That's the point. In a world worried about global warming you want to pump all that hot gassious exhaust into the face of the people behind you, while you draw fresher air into your air conditioner vents located high, just below the windshield.

It would be more efficient for gassers to vent their exhaust gasses just behind the front wheels. Race cars do this. It is more efficient and does not require running an exhaust pipe all the way to the back. They do not do this in passenger cars because passengers would be subject to the noise, heat and smells coming from that shorter pipe.

I drove a Viper and previously a 64 Corvette with side pipes for years. They made the cars sound more agressive, but not appropriate for luxury sedans. The shorter pipes reduced weight and gave the driver instant feedback as to the engine operation, but looking back, they were pretty miserable.

The bottom line is that it is getting less and less acceptable for rich people to drive 10 mpg large sedans to simply get one person to their destination in style. Their time is coming to an end, but some find change hard to accept. Now they are looked upon as being arrogant and selfish.

Interesting. I remember the fisker karma had issues with melting bumpers due to the exhaust being in the front.
Yes I know race cars have short pipes to save weight but also because they remove catalytic converters so there’s no need for the pipes.
My only ICE car averages around 11 mpg. change isn’t hard for me, however the M5 has sentimental value to me

 

[dark cloud]

Yes I know race cars have short pipes to save weight but also because they remove catalytic converters so there’s no need for the pipes.

race cars are not as concerned with the noise as well. The longer the pipe, means the more time you give the hot gasses to cool down and the quieter the exhaust will be, and the less attenuation required to meet requirements. I imagine those Viper mufflers are 3 times the size of a typical vehicle.

 

[traxila]

When the legacy OEMs come out with hardcore electrics, I will be perfectly happy to have this conversation. I cannot wait! I am rooting for some sweet BEV rides from multiple manufacturers.

Until then, puh leeze get this ICE trash option outta here. Seriously folks, there is no debate. ICE cars suck.

All the best!

 

[dark cloud]

ICE cars suck.
!

we were just discussing how they blow.