After my third drive unit failure in less than 100,000 miles, I'm checking on a class-action against Tesla. This equates to a gas car blowing an entire engine every 33,000 miles. The Tesla shop will not provide the old DU even after a non-warranty repair, because they say "Tesla owns the old parts". I can never get a failed drive unit for an expert failure mode analysis, but having seen others who did this they report a consistent finding: Tesla mis-engineered the seals allowing coolant to leak into the DU over time, causing failure consistently, basically a guarantee. Failure in my case was sudden and catastrophic with no warning, while driving down a busy highway. This dangerous fault is also a major profit source for the repair centers which is something Elon Musk was absolutely adamant would not happen. He also touted his million-mile motor from the start. The DU failure is likely to happen beyond the warranty, bringing in $7000 to the repair center. If you had a gas vehicle that blew its engine every 33,000 miles, there would be a lawsuit. I'm wondering if a class action has already been filed or if there are enough people to start one?
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Class action for Model S drive unit failure?
- Thread starter PhillipPhoenix
- Start date
Check the laws in your state for warranty work. Most will say that you will have to ask "in writing" before any work is performed to have your parts returned. Tesla does not own the parts once the car is out of warranty.
What year and trim do you have? And when you say catastrophic failure, what happened specifically? Strongly considering Xcare based on these DU failures alone!
beatle
Active Member
Pretty sure the issue is with all large drive units. They were installed in all 2012-2022 performance models. There have been many revisions but I don't know if Tesla ever actually fixed the design flaw. Coolant bypasses the seal and gets into the inverter which eventually ruins the drive unit. There are several threads on the forum about them, including some that show how to remove and check the speed sensor for coolant. This indicates that the seal has failed and will soon destroy the inverter if not addressed. When coolant is found on the speed sensor, I think people have had mixed results in having Tesla replace the drive unit under warranty prior to it inevitably failing catastrophically.
No, I don't think he mentioned that until they developed the motors for the Model 3. (I don't think that was said about the large Model S/X motors.)
Also, as far as a class action, Tesla recently had a class action on Full Self Driving thrown out because the owners did not opt out of arbitration within 30 days of car purchase, and therefore were prohibited from class actions. They must either go through small claims court, or arbitration. Class actions are prohibited for any owner under arbitration, which nearly all are.
Hey @esg94 not sure if you have connected with anyone from out team yet...Let us know if we can get you more information or a quote for drive unit coverage.
-Team XCare
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
FWIW I put 175,000 miles on a LDU with zero issues so the whole "they fail every 33,000 miles" thing is pure hyperbole.
Yeah, they have design flaws. Most of them also had an 8 year unlimited mile warranty. That's what warranties are for.
Yeah, they have design flaws. Most of them also had an 8 year unlimited mile warranty. That's what warranties are for.
dbldwn02
Active Member
Yea...single post and then ghost. I don't think we'll be hearing from him again.
I have a 2013 P85 model S with less than 50,000 miles that failed 4weeks ago. Of course, it is out of warranty. But I would think the mileage part of the warranty would be because of Tesla's confidence in the motor. Apparently not.
It actually seems like cars that aren't driven much are much more likely to have the large drive units fail. (My guess is that this is because sitting for long periods of time allows the coolant/contaminants to dry on to the shaft and/or seal, and then when you drive it that build up damages the seal, allowing it to leak a little. Lather-rinse-repeat.)
Hyperbole is "exaggerated claims not meant to be taken literally". I have replaced 3 drive units. I have driven 110,000 miles. The math here is pretty simple: miles divided by failed drive units = failure every X miles. That is not hyperbole. What you are likely conflating is you think the statement means "all Model S drive units fail every 33,000 miles", which is not what I wrote. The car warranty covers the first replacement, after that a replacement DU has a 2 year warranty/40K miles.
You definitely implied close to this, with the "class action" implication.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Replace "hyperbole" with "anecdotal" if you wish, the point is the same.
No, the car warranty covers EVERY necessary replacement for 8 years and unlimited miles (or 150,000 miles for cars made after early 2020 and the 2012-2014 Model S 60s).
After that, any replacement you pay for out of pocket has a 4 year, 50,000 mile warranty.
I've been collecting stats on this and both long lasting and high failure rate stats exist. Did my best to untangle why the 2 different patterns.
Here is my analysis from collecting data from multiple LDUs
- The shaft surface that mates to the seal of the newly manufactured LDU is new and pristine surface. It appears to have very thin coating of rust proofing. Shaft surface precision is just as critically important as the seal
- For reman, Tesla appears to do nothing to return the shaft surface back to new spec. They can have slight scores, silicate coating etc. We've tried a few different ways to repair to original spec (flame metal spray, chrome plating) Careful study shows it require extreme level of precision unfamiliar to repair shops doing these type of work. So I guess this is the reason Tesla reman appears to just reuse deteriorated shaft.
- Original LDU seems to use triple lip seal. They seem to be packed with grease between the lips. This is why every speed sensor picture you see has grease residue on it before owner cleans it off.
- Reman LDU use single lip seal. Some new LDUs seems to also use single lip seal (seen one in Rav4 EV which uses LDU). These all seem to fail much quicker.
- My guess is single lip seal is used in reman because shaft imperfections can cause problems with triple lip seals. My LDU rebuild used triple lip seal and got completely rusted under the seal in 3k miles. Clearly a rust protection layer was compromised. My shaft showed a tiny score likely during disassembly in parts of the shaft not in contact with the reman single lip seal. So clearly the shaft was not reconditioned back to original new spec.
Currently, all LDUs from Tesla are all reman. And Tesla has been deploying remans for quite a few years now. Most stats point to leaking again within a couple of years. Recent chat with a service tech echoed similar failure rate observation.
So I think both patterns exist and just sharing what seems to last and what is failing. Reman LDUs are a huge problem.
Also recently encountered an unexpectated data. Original non reman LDU from 2014 EU car leaked and shaft exhibited severe wear with pitting under the seal. This is quite surprising because it suggest either the shaft is too soft or seal is too hard.
I know Tesla and tier 1 suppliers contacted many seal manufacturers over the first 10 years (I reached out to quite a few, most seems to have engaged Tesla/tier1). And there appear to have been multiple changes in design choices (at least triple and single lip) Don't know if there are more revisions on material hardness etc. Nor do we know any revisions on the rotor shaft.
A basic design decision on the rotor shaft and PTFE seal is the relative hardness of both materials for longevity and wear. Rotor shaft need to chose steel grade (hardest may not be best for variety of reason such as cost and assembling the whole rotor) and PTFE seals are all blends with other compounds to achieve various properties (commonly hardness).
So for all we know, we have a bunch of different versions of components deployed with no visible database to decipher which combo yielded which result. Quite a hard puzzle to untangle.
I know Tesla and tier 1 suppliers contacted many seal manufacturers over the first 10 years (I reached out to quite a few, most seems to have engaged Tesla/tier1). And there appear to have been multiple changes in design choices (at least triple and single lip) Don't know if there are more revisions on material hardness etc. Nor do we know any revisions on the rotor shaft.
A basic design decision on the rotor shaft and PTFE seal is the relative hardness of both materials for longevity and wear. Rotor shaft need to chose steel grade (hardest may not be best for variety of reason such as cost and assembling the whole rotor) and PTFE seals are all blends with other compounds to achieve various properties (commonly hardness).
So for all we know, we have a bunch of different versions of components deployed with no visible database to decipher which combo yielded which result. Quite a hard puzzle to untangle.
I want to thank you for the extensive knowledge you share with all if us. Although I really love our S, that LDU puzzle makes me think of a new S or Y as I hate the idea of perpetually have to suffer such random failures. I was really hoping there would be eventual third party solutions but this new info you just kindly shared with us makes that rather dim in my humble opinion. So thanks once more. Cheers
There are good 3rd party rebuilders but usually involved shipping car if you are in their locale. For example, QC Charge (QCC) in San Diego in US. They use triple lip seal source that seems to have proven to last well and globally used by few rebuilders. I don't know what QCC does to recondition the shaft. Seems more options available in EU. Likely due to their more matured right to repair laws+culture. EV Clinic in Crotia does chrome plating to repair shaft and is franchising their repair solutions in EU.
Tesla reman has been poor from few stats we've been able to collect. Of course they can improve anytime without announcement but only detectable after a few years down the line by the community.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I spent a lot of time debating between RWD and AWD when I bought my S. $5k difference. Ultimately went with the RWD.
Shortly after buying the 75Ds were “uncorked” and took 0-60 from 5.2 to 4.2. Long-term reliability of the small drive units in the “D” appears to be much better. Would have been a good $5k to spend in retrospect.
Not uncommon to see a drive unit failure being posted in the Model 3 forums.
