Might be returning AWD 3 (advice request)

[preilly44]

Hello, first, let me start by saying I am a huge Tesla fan (my wife and I have owned 5 Teslas starting in 2014), I'm a share holder, fanboy, etc. My father in law came to visit a couple weeks ago and loved our P3s (we have 2). We took him to the Tesla store and he put a deposit down on a dealer demo. Then after he left, he got nervous and canceled the car. Then he decided it was just nerves and bought another dealer demo. I drove from MD to NY to be there for his delivery (He lives in NY and WV).

His car was delivered and all was well....until he drove from Staten Island, NY to Charleston, West Virginia. He had TACC set at 71 and was only getting 180-200 miles of actual range. The temp was in the upper 40's-50's and I think he had the heat set at 71 as well. He is disappointed in the range and wants to return the car. He currently has 19" sport rims and the only thing I could think to advise him to do (other than return it) was to get the 18" aero rims but I don't think that will improve his range enough to where he could do this drive in the winter.

The only other thing I could think of is the tires are not broken in yet because the car was basically brand new (he got the car with 72 miles and it now has 625 miles). Will the car be that much more efficient with broken in tires and aeros?

He is still within 7 days so he can technically return the car, but I'm not really sure what is involved with that and if he gets all of his money back or not.

What should I do?

 

[JeffK]

If he cared that much about range then why not get the LR RWD?

Does he do that trip all the time? What are his normal driving habits?

 

[abasile]

200 miles of actual range sounds quite low for an AWD Model 3, and 40s-50s temperatures are pretty mild. We routinely do much better than that on our AWD 3 (with 18" aeros).

Was that "180-200 miles of actual range" starting from a full charge? Were there unusually strong winds or was it raining hard?

He can certainly do this drive during the winter. There's no shortage of Superchargers up and down I-95.

However, if he is disappointed with the car and it truly doesn't meet his expectations, then it might be best to return it. We wouldn't want him to regret owning a Tesla.

 

[SammichLover]

Moving to 18" wheels would give him an extra 20 miles. Other than that for the conditions, speed, and HVAC decisions made as you describe them it sounds about right. He might get a bit extra once the tire "break in" but I wouldn't count on a lot.

Was he having difficulty reaching between SC? I don't think he should there, outside maybe the end? Does he understand he'll see much better once summer comes?

P.S. I drove roughly that route in those temperatures, LR D on 18" Aeros, saw a lot better but that'll be partially because I don't use the heater when it is so warm. Rather manual with the temp set to "LO" (so it won't turn on the heater), vents on the windshield only, intake rather than recirculate, and fan on 1 or 2 as needed. Make sure the windshield is clean and you're good to go, most of the time.

 

[preilly44]

Thanks for the quick responses.

He got the AWD because WV can see a lot of snow over the winters. Unfortunately, he doesn't take I95 at all, he goes through PA (287>78>81>68 and I'm not sure what other highways from there). I know there are super chargers at least every 150 miles (or less).

He said he started from 295 miles of range (not the full 310).

He does the drive about every month and a half.

 

[ZeApelido]

Was he going uphill?

 

[mtndrew1]

Charging to 100%, verifying correct tire pressure, and turning fan speed down manually should give another 35 miles of range or better.

Maybe teach the driver how to use the energy screen predictive graph to determine how current consumption is stacking up against the car’s prediction would help?

 

[preilly44]

Was he going uphill?

There are mountains, so I imagine part of the way was....

 

[Petrlol]

200 miles of actual range sounds quite low for an AWD Model 3, and 40s-50s temperatures are pretty mild. We routinely do much better than that on our AWD 3 (with 18" aeros).

Was that "180-200 miles of actual range" starting from a full charge? Were there unusually strong winds or was it raining hard?

He can certainly do this drive during the winter. There's no shortage of Superchargers up and down I-95.

However, if he is disappointed with the car and it truly doesn't meet his expectations, then it might be best to return it. We wouldn't want him to regret owning a Tesla.

At around 30 degrees, 220mi of range is what I'm seeing from my AWD with aeros, made the trip about 5 times now. Just an anecdotal number...

 

[Watts_Up]

Sorry, but not quite sure to understand the issue.

And if you return, what elese will you get? I don't think there is any EV more efficient than a Tesla?

You can look at some Youtube review and analysis from Bjørn Nyland.

Beside, you will get you money back, but it would take weeks or months..., it's not like Amazon Prime.

So is it a P3s? It's really a great car!

If so, I don't think you can put Tesla 18" if you have th larger disk brakes?

However, I found the Aero covers kind of ugly and seems cheap looking. The 19" or 20" are very good looking in comparison.

Well, there is not too much you can do about the range, as it is affected by weather condition in particular.

Best way to increase range if needed is to reduce speed accordingly.

A good way to estimate your speed versus range is to use A Better Routeplanner where you can play with various settings options.

Also if you may need to use a Supercharger, you might not need to full charge and only what you need to go home, so it would be very short.

It's only above about 60% that the Supercharging ratio starts to decline.

- I was going to add that after a little while, you will not really think about miles but mostly percentage,

a liitle bit like when checking your phone or your laptop.

It is true that in some areas, like North Dakota, the current lack of Superchargers is an issue, and hybrid might be a better fit.

So, keep the car and enjoy it, unless a Model S P100D is a better fit for your need.

Note: I like your narative, any story is a good story. May be you can make a video about all of your thoughts.

 

[AdamVIP]

Return the car. If that's a drive it needs to make on the regular in temps even lower than what hes stressing at now its not the right car for him. If he really wants it and has a second ride or something for those particular trips that might be the way to go but why buy a car you have to stress about all the time.

 

[ewoodrick]

I know that there was disappointment with range, but I didn't really hear that there was a problem. If he can make the trip with no issues, then that's great.
It's range anxiety and it will subside. Make sure that he has a 240V plug installed at home to charge and there shouldn't be any issues.

As to the poll, waiting for a longer range is going to mean a number of years. There aren't imminent solutions on the market today. Unless you count for something like the pickup, for which the imminent solution as to add a fair amount of cost for the extended range.

Sit down, map out the locations that he would ever think about going and see what isn't possible. Also, he has to learn to not make Supercharging stops for the car, make them for him, empty the bladder, refill the belly, stretch the legs, oh, and by the way, fill the car.

This is advice coming from an all EV family with two cars. We've been on 1500 mile trips and had no issues.

 

[abasile]

He got the AWD because WV can see a lot of snow over the winters. Unfortunately, he doesn't take I95 at all, he goes through PA (287>78>81>68 and I'm not sure what other highways from there). I know there are super chargers at least every 150 miles (or less).

Sorry, I agree that I-95 would make no sense; I saw "Charleston" and was thinking South Carolina even though you clearly indicated West Virginia. My bad.

Given the elevation changes, starting from 295 miles of rated range, the heater use, and the 19" wheels, I'm not surprised at your father's range results. There are enough Superchargers on his route, though. If he chooses to keep the car, he might need to be prepared to Supercharge a bit more than he'd hoped for. I hope he chooses to keep it, but on the other hand, we wouldn't want him to be unhappy after such a big purchase.

 

[Mcfly777]

Interesting thread. This is the difference between when an auto enthusiast gets a car and is willing to drive in a certain way, with certain HVAC settings, etc, versus a regular person that just expects to drive the car in any situation and get the rated range. If it was an ICE, no problem just another stop to fuel and no love lost. But with EVs range anxiety becomes real and in my view quite problematic still even with the existing 300+ rated ranges for regular people. My advice would be to have a conversation with him and try to understand what he is willing to do to drive the EV. If he expects 310 miles from just sitting and driving in any situation he will be frequently disappointed. Also I have an issue with the battery level indicator showing a range that may confuse people. That's why I just use % instead of miles left.

 

[preilly44]

Thanks for everyone's response. I hope he decides to keep it too, but he just told me he called Tesla to see what his options are. He is also saying he thinks there may be something wrong with the battery because he bought a dealer demo car from 2018 with only 52 miles on it....he's worried it sat at a very low/no charge for a long period which hurt the battery. I told him to have Tesla do a remote diagnostic and get 18's with aeros if he keeps it.

My family has been all electric since 2014 and couldn't imagine going back to an ICE. For him, he would just go keep is ICE SUV instead of selling it if this car doesn't work out...then wait several years before trying a longer range EV.

Thanks again for your advice. I'll update the post when I hear what he decides.

 

[SammichLover]

.he's worried it sat at a very low/no charge for a long period which hurt the battery.

Meh. Just L2 it up to 100% (which will take a while, and the first time it is likely to stop to 99% until it has a day to balance itself) and see what it says. If it isn't at least 308 mi, and ideally 310 mi, then maybe. Basically for every 3 miles below 310 that's 1% of battery not there. But these Model 3 batteries are very hardy, sounds like he's used to old tech batteries?

 

[lotusland]

I wonder if some basic instruction in regen might help. It seems like expecting the average buyer to understand how to get the most out of regen is too much to ask. I drive a lot of mountainous terrain and with high regen and using regen exclusively for downhills (no brakes if possible), I often get very long stretches where I am net positive for miles. This can be a major contributor to overall range.

 

[Kutu]

It appears, to me, as if he will never be satisfied with a Tesla. He should return the car.

 

[mswlogo]

Where does he primarily live? West Virginia or NY? If NY I would stick with AWD, if West Virginia he should have got RWD.

Like others said if Range was at all a concern, why get 19" wheels and AWD (unless he really needs it).

I agree with other comments he'll gain like 7-10% for switching to 18" Aero's. He could make a few bucks if he swapped NOW.

He'll probably gain another 5-10% managing the heat. It can be a little bit of pain staying on top of heat and only using what is needed and learning what is needed. But it can save quite a bit if you do.

I doubt break in will add more than 1%. Him breaking in, might gain a little bit more. Squeaking out every bit from regen braking. Letting up on throttle a little sooner than you might think. Especially if regen is limited.

Since I assume he didn't start at 100% SOC (which maybe he should for a trip like that), but that would only help the first leg. Not worth waiting at SC for that last 10%. Nor did he run it down to 0% SOC (smart guy). 200 miles range, on 19" in cool weather doesn't sound all that bad. He should realize though, during an artic freeze he may be more like 160 miles between SC.

Even with Aero's the AWD is technically 295 miles range. if you run 90% to 10% SOC that's 80% of the range which comes to 236 typical usable miles. So with 19" and running "some" heat, 200 miles sounds pretty good.

 

[GolanB]

I have found that with family, one must be very careful. The most important thing here is that your father-in-law feels comfortable- this will always come before joining the "Tesla Family." These cars have come a very long way in the last few years and will continue to improve. It's not my sense that one needs to rush. If we look at where we are today vs. where we were even 30 years ago, there really are no bad cars on the road; he may be happier with the peace of mind that he can stop anywhere at any time and fill-up even if it is just a perception and not a reality.

Not everyone is sold as quickly, and there still are some benefits that ICE cars can provide (although these are becoming smaller, and eventually will entirely disappear). My own parents are pleased with their electric vehicles, but they drive mostly in town, and rarely take road-trips (they prefer to fly on the SouthWest/JetBlue network). As an aside, my mother never drove my father's Model 3, she's sticking to her Leaf which she's delighted with. My feeling is that if she did, she'd want one, but she's made her way over the years from ICE to Hybrid and finally full EV and is a happy customer.

My own experience here in NY is that my mileage has been significantly lower during the winter months - mostly due to running the heat. This is immediately apparent when I choose to bundle up, or just run the seat-heaters. I dropped from an average of 430Wh/mi to 230Wh/mi on my two hour daily commutes - as per OBD2 stats once I stopped running heat (the energy burn shows up as AUX load on the stats.) I replaced my performance tires with 18-inch winter tires which helped but did not make as a significant impact. Before I was charging at home, it became a real drag on time to hit the superchargers (at the time, we owned two Teslas, and could only park one at a time at the house). I began to ask myself why I was spending more time in my car, and less with the family which to me is the most critical and best-spent use of time.

Good luck with everything! Hopefully, he'll make the best decision given his circumstances. Either way, you guys win - he can still come on his own to see the family!