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Mitin suspension
- Thread starter Rick71
- Start date
MasterC17
Active Member
Never heard of them and there is very little information available. I'm not sure what your definition of "nice" is, but these appear to be some eBay specials. Just because they are cosmetically appealing does not mean they are well built. When you consider the cost of MPP's Comfort Coilovers, it really does not make sense to save a few hundred dollars buying a suspension that is unproven and will inevitably wear out very quickly and have little to no after-sales support. Just my two cents.
Mitin has been around a while in Asia... But just remember that no matter what you post here, if it didn't come from one of three places, people will call it *sugar* without knowing anything about the company. the guy coming in to let us know how this sucks and how happy he is with his signature wheels should be here shortly.
MasterC17
Active Member
I've purchased coilovers from many companies. I would consider the following to be well-proven and capable of providing good post-sale support in North America: MCS, KW, Ohlins, ISC, AST, BC Racing, JRZ, Bilstein, Ground Control (Koni), Eibach.
I've previously explained to Sam why I personally feel that spending extra money on a well-proven product is worth it, and last time I got no valid rebuttal.
I own a set of Intrax 1K2 Coilovers (Netherlands). Unfortunately, getting someone in the US to rebuild them is very difficult and expensive. I would have been better off buying a set that had good support in the US.
I'm literally just trying to offer you my opinion that may help save you time, money, and headaches in the long run. Like I said, it's probably not worth saving a few hundred dollars for the potential problems, but it's your money so you can do what you want with it. Why bother asking for opinions if you don't want to hear them?
I've previously explained to Sam why I personally feel that spending extra money on a well-proven product is worth it, and last time I got no valid rebuttal.
- Resale Value
- Customer Support
- Shipping Time
- Availability
- Reliability
- Experience
- Service
I own a set of Intrax 1K2 Coilovers (Netherlands). Unfortunately, getting someone in the US to rebuild them is very difficult and expensive. I would have been better off buying a set that had good support in the US.
I'm literally just trying to offer you my opinion that may help save you time, money, and headaches in the long run. Like I said, it's probably not worth saving a few hundred dollars for the potential problems, but it's your money so you can do what you want with it. Why bother asking for opinions if you don't want to hear them?
If you read correctly my answer to you in the first comment i say ( thank for your advise!!!)
so no i dont bother any people here !
eric
It doesn't look like they even have a coilover over the Model 3?
A major problem with "cheap" coilovers is that that damping is generally terrible. Manufacturing coilovers is not too difficult in the 21st century, but what is difficult is properly tuning the damper. Damping not matched from corner to corner, not consistent over time, increased hysteresis during use, and cheap internals leading to premature failure. Even if they don't fail, your on road feeling will be very harsh and/or bouncy. Coilovers are very much "you get what you pay for".
A major problem with "cheap" coilovers is that that damping is generally terrible. Manufacturing coilovers is not too difficult in the 21st century, but what is difficult is properly tuning the damper. Damping not matched from corner to corner, not consistent over time, increased hysteresis during use, and cheap internals leading to premature failure. Even if they don't fail, your on road feeling will be very harsh and/or bouncy. Coilovers are very much "you get what you pay for".
MasterC17
Active Member
If you read correctly my answer to you in the first comment i say ( thank for your advise!!!)
so no i dont bother any people here !
eric
Apologies, I didn't intend to come across to mean you were bothering anyone. If you're willing to "take the plunge" I would be curious to see how they work for you.
I very much agree with this sentiment.
I couldn't find much about the brand. It appears they are based and manufactured in Taiwan. To your point, designing a coilover that looks the part is not very difficult (they have a similar scheme to D2 Coilovers). Ensuring that they function well and will stand the test of time is very different. It's hard to know the material or quality of the seals, rings, bodies, pistons, etc.
Because I was ignoring the obvious. You're degrading a product by asserting negative connotations of all the things above being true, while at the same time admittedly acknowledging you don't know anything about them. Any one of those aspects could be true for any supplier of any product. We're just sort of hoping that it's not because they maintain some level of physical presence in North America.
Clivew
Member
Anyone that has any proper experience with suspension will know that cheap ‘generic’ suspension will have poor quality damping design, manufactured from low quality materials. The ride quality will either be soft, but woefully underdamped and unstable at higher speeds, or harsh as hell and have terrible ride quality. They will wear out fast, start knocking, leaking or lose their damping even further. These types of suspensions are for one thing only, to make as much profit as possible.
People normally buy cheap suspension due to ignorance. If you have experience with decent suspension, you would never buy this cheap generic crap.
People normally buy cheap suspension due to ignorance. If you have experience with decent suspension, you would never buy this cheap generic crap.
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I think you are misrepresenting what one of the most senior people on this forum said - someone whose had a boatload more experience than you in dealing with this kind of product. He didn't 'degrade' the product, he offered what most of us believe are reasonable cautions about these off-brand items.
I've bought some discount coilovers from Taiwan, and had one work out and prove to be a reasonable value, and the other fail rather dismally, and prove to be impossible to fix.
So what MasterC17 said is pretty fair, pretty balanced, and reasonable. You can take your chance on one of these products, and, who knows, it might prove to be OK. But if it fails, you are like up a creek, and there is a high probability that its dampers would be grossly inferior to KWs/MPPs products. So it's pretty much a crap shoot. You can do that if you like - you have every right. but I think it's risky, and so do other people here. Your choice.
Everyone who has tried any of the MPP products (Comforts, Sports or Adjustable Comforts) has come away very impressed. This is not the kind of item you want to save a lot of money on. If that's what you're shooting for, probably best to leave the suspension as is. At least you know what you are getting and the cost is zero.
P3D-R
Closed
Please listen to the veterans who are involved in motorsports please and have a plethora of experience experimenting with various brands of dampers. I've also run the gamut of suspension brands over the past 25 years. Everything ranging from Japanese to European to Taiwanese. I have installed, sold, and flogged on most of them. The points referenced by these gentlemen above are extremely valid.
If price point is the concern then you really have no choice. Comparing, BC racing, Pedders, Mitin, Gecko, Yellow Speed Racing, Megan Racing are all Taiwanese dampers and likely to share a lot of the same short comings with one positive trait being "price". If you want your cake and eat it too, great handling with improved ride quality, you'll want to look at the spring rates and see what kind of stroke they are offering. That's at least a starting point. In terms of valving and hysteresis you can't improve upon those at these price points. Even something as simple as the type/quality of shock oil can make a big difference.
I've actually purchased the majority of coilovers on the market for the Model 3 and more keep trickling in from Taiwan so I can't keep up anymore. I have only done this to see what engineering and math they've used to produce these products. It's quite interesting because I have yet to find a single Taiwanese coilover that makes mathematical sense. The wheel rates and ride frequencies they are using differ from front to rear which seems really odd to me. I have already taken apart the car, calculate sprung mass, motion ratios, and so on to determine what the spring rate bias should be. You also have other factors at play that can affect battery clearance. I will say a shock design like this where spring preload and shock length are independent of each other can be a very dangerous situation, unless you know what you're doing, on a Model 3/Y due to battery clearance. It's important that your installer understand what the critical shock lengths are before setting ride height. The "correct" way to install this design of coilover is not how 99% of shops do it. You should be installing the dampers without springs, set critical shock length, check for clearances, then add the spring back in, adjust preload and height accordingly while not affecting critical shock length. this way you can limit the chances of battery pack impact or contact with other components like chassis, sway bars, axles, endlinks and so forth. This is why you see most European coilovers are of a single body. They take all the guesswork out of it for you. KW, Bilstein, H&R, etc....
The other thing to ask yourself is if they have a USA office and how quickly they can supply replacement parts. The logistics should be of huge consideration when purchasing suspension. It can mean the difference of being able to drive your car or leaving it in the garage for a couple months at a time.
I also can't find any data on Mitin but do request the spring rates from them and share it with us.
If price point is the concern then you really have no choice. Comparing, BC racing, Pedders, Mitin, Gecko, Yellow Speed Racing, Megan Racing are all Taiwanese dampers and likely to share a lot of the same short comings with one positive trait being "price". If you want your cake and eat it too, great handling with improved ride quality, you'll want to look at the spring rates and see what kind of stroke they are offering. That's at least a starting point. In terms of valving and hysteresis you can't improve upon those at these price points. Even something as simple as the type/quality of shock oil can make a big difference.
I've actually purchased the majority of coilovers on the market for the Model 3 and more keep trickling in from Taiwan so I can't keep up anymore. I have only done this to see what engineering and math they've used to produce these products. It's quite interesting because I have yet to find a single Taiwanese coilover that makes mathematical sense. The wheel rates and ride frequencies they are using differ from front to rear which seems really odd to me. I have already taken apart the car, calculate sprung mass, motion ratios, and so on to determine what the spring rate bias should be. You also have other factors at play that can affect battery clearance. I will say a shock design like this where spring preload and shock length are independent of each other can be a very dangerous situation, unless you know what you're doing, on a Model 3/Y due to battery clearance. It's important that your installer understand what the critical shock lengths are before setting ride height. The "correct" way to install this design of coilover is not how 99% of shops do it. You should be installing the dampers without springs, set critical shock length, check for clearances, then add the spring back in, adjust preload and height accordingly while not affecting critical shock length. this way you can limit the chances of battery pack impact or contact with other components like chassis, sway bars, axles, endlinks and so forth. This is why you see most European coilovers are of a single body. They take all the guesswork out of it for you. KW, Bilstein, H&R, etc....
The other thing to ask yourself is if they have a USA office and how quickly they can supply replacement parts. The logistics should be of huge consideration when purchasing suspension. It can mean the difference of being able to drive your car or leaving it in the garage for a couple months at a time.
I also can't find any data on Mitin but do request the spring rates from them and share it with us.
I'm always curious to see how these "unknown" brands work but never will I volunteer to be the first guy testing. It is possible they are great but if they've been around and no one has them, then chances are they are not so good. The well-known companies mentioned are well known for a reason and for the risk-averse, it seems prudent to buy well-know with good track record, easy access to after-sales support, warranty, etc.
If you take the plunge I think people would be curious to read your experiences.
By the way, they are "pretty" if that counts for anything.
If you take the plunge I think people would be curious to read your experiences.
By the way, they are "pretty" if that counts for anything.
I managed to track down these dampers on the Mitin Suspension site... but I see zero evidence that suggests they’re something I’d even bother to experiment with.
Suspension,M40 Series | TAIWAN MITIN INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD.
As others have mentioned, damper valving is the critical piece of the equation... and here, it’s a complete unknown. What most of these companies (largely in Taiwan) are doing is using an off the shelf monotube that (more or less) will dimensionally fit. By using ride height+preload adjustment collars, they can get these generic parts to work without having to fiddle around with building custom shock bodies. An additional downside with this approach is that it tends to eat up some shock travel. How much this matters to you will hinge on ride height and spring rate so it’ll be very setup dependent.
From a valving perspective, stuff like this will typically have a linear shock curve with almost no low/ultra-low speed compression, waaay too much high speed compression, and ok (at best) rebound damping. This translates into what an eBay purchaser would consider a “sporty ride” but most folks would simply describe as “bouncy”. LOL
Obviously IMO, but dampers are one of those pieces of hardware where you really do tend to get what you pay for. Yes, a set of pimp shocks is expensive but they also tend to last and they hold value so the cost of ownership is actually pretty low. Having said all this, there’s nothing stopping you from snagging something cheap like the BC’s (or maybe the Mitins) and getting them revalved... it’s simply more work, potentially a similar cost, and more uncertain resale than buying the right thing the first time.
Suspension,M40 Series | TAIWAN MITIN INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD.
As others have mentioned, damper valving is the critical piece of the equation... and here, it’s a complete unknown. What most of these companies (largely in Taiwan) are doing is using an off the shelf monotube that (more or less) will dimensionally fit. By using ride height+preload adjustment collars, they can get these generic parts to work without having to fiddle around with building custom shock bodies. An additional downside with this approach is that it tends to eat up some shock travel. How much this matters to you will hinge on ride height and spring rate so it’ll be very setup dependent.
From a valving perspective, stuff like this will typically have a linear shock curve with almost no low/ultra-low speed compression, waaay too much high speed compression, and ok (at best) rebound damping. This translates into what an eBay purchaser would consider a “sporty ride” but most folks would simply describe as “bouncy”. LOL
Obviously IMO, but dampers are one of those pieces of hardware where you really do tend to get what you pay for. Yes, a set of pimp shocks is expensive but they also tend to last and they hold value so the cost of ownership is actually pretty low. Having said all this, there’s nothing stopping you from snagging something cheap like the BC’s (or maybe the Mitins) and getting them revalved... it’s simply more work, potentially a similar cost, and more uncertain resale than buying the right thing the first time.
MasterC17
Active Member
At the end of the day if you want to try a set of cheap Taiwanese Coilovers, just buy BC-Racing. I personally wouldn't use them, but at least they have good support in North America and it's a brand people actually recognize. I cannot imagine the Mitin's are much - if any - cheaper.
More than anything though, if you aren't installing the Coilovers yourself the amount of money you "save" buying cheap coilovers you are going to "spend" when you have to replace them 2 years later. I imagine install costs for the Model 3 run between $500 and $700, possibly more if you do it right and also align the car. The money you save today, you will spend tomorrow.
I think I need to change my signature to "do it once, do it right". The headache just isn't worth it (trust me I've been there too many times).
More than anything though, if you aren't installing the Coilovers yourself the amount of money you "save" buying cheap coilovers you are going to "spend" when you have to replace them 2 years later. I imagine install costs for the Model 3 run between $500 and $700, possibly more if you do it right and also align the car. The money you save today, you will spend tomorrow.
I think I need to change my signature to "do it once, do it right". The headache just isn't worth it (trust me I've been there too many times).
I'm always curious to see how these "unknown" brands work but never will I volunteer to be the first guy testing. It is possible they are great but if they've been around and no one has them, then chances are they are not so good. The well-known companies mentioned are well known for a reason and for the risk-averse, it seems prudent to buy well-know with good track record, easy access to after-sales support, warranty, etc.
If you take the plunge I think people would be curious to read your experiences.
By the way, they are "pretty" if that counts for anything.
This is pretty much spot on, try something new, do something other people won't. Let us know how it works out.
There's no reason for people to instantly berate every single thing that people ask about that doesn't fall in order with the party line.
Come on Sam1. There is no party line here and no one is saying categorically that somebody shouldn't try something new. What they are saying and this is grounded in lots of reality and experience is that you are taking a chance in going with this kind of item. That's all.
People are welcome to take chances and explore whatever new territory they want. Just be aware of the risks. In exchange for the lowered price you may get a good deal, and a good outcome, or shortcut engineering, poor reliability, and a product that has to be replaced in a year. So I have no idea which way this purchase might go. Neither do you. All anyone is saying is that there are risks as well as rewards. You are turning that into some kind of fascism. And by the way and not parenthetically, you and I get the benefit of this person's experimenting when they report on their experience here. They may not get any benefit in fact they may just get a painful lesson but we get the benefit. That's another thing you're not really admitting. So we're not taking any risk it all in encouraging somebody to try an untested product. None. They're taking all the risk.
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