Model 3 as a Student Driver car

[Big Earl]

I just went for a drive to test this out, just to remove all doubt or confusion.

Any time the brake is applied, accelerator position is ignored. If the brake pedal is held and the accelerator is released and reapplied, the car will give you a few kW of propulsion, which is very easy to overcome by applying the brakes more forcefully. This feature allows the car to be moved/driven slowly in the event that the brake pedal switch fails.

A mechanical linkage between the driver’s pedal and the instructor’s pedal is all that’s needed. No need to reinvent the wheel or modify any of the car’s wiring.

 

[AquaMan]

I just went for a drive to test this out, just to remove all doubt or confusion.

Thank you very much for doing that Big Earl. Although my experience was different when I test drove, I was on "limited salesman's time" so your test is probably the right one.

f the brake pedal is held and the accelerator is released and reapplied, the car will give you a few kW of propulsion, which is very easy to overcome by applying the brakes more forcefully.

Frankly, this is an issue I've always wanted to resolve in our ICE cars as well. Sometimes the student "stomps" the accelerator, thinking it's the brake. And yes, we can always overcome it with greater braking force, but it feels "not right" non-optimal.

I could test drive again... but nah... My decision is made that I will own the car and I'll do what needs to be done. If it just becomes a personal car... I'll still be happy.

 

[Big Earl]

Thank you very much for doing that Big Earl. Although my experience was different when I test drove, I was on "limited salesman's time" so your test is probably the right one.



Frankly, this is an issue I've always wanted to resolve in our ICE cars as well. Sometimes the student "stomps" the accelerator, thinking it's the brake. And yes, we can always overcome it with greater braking force, but it feels "not right" non-optimal.

I could test drive again... but nah... My decision is made that I will own the car and I'll do what needs to be done. If it just becomes a personal car... I'll still be happy.

I’ll improve my description a bit.

In the Tesla, if the student stomps the accelerator and you press the brake even a little bit, the car will cancel the accelerator input and you will be in full control with the brake.

If the student stomps the accelerator again while your foot is still on the brake, the car will provide very limited power - only enough to accelerate very gradually in the event of a brake pedal switch failure. In this situation, you are still in full control with the brake pedal. It essentially feels the same as the first scenario.

Keep this in mind: if the student is just sitting there with their foot planted to the floor and you release your brake pedal, the car will rocket forward at full power.

I encourage you to play around a bit to get used to it. I think you’ll like it.

 

[AquaMan]

Keep this in mind: if the student is just sitting there with their foot planted to the floor and you release your brake pedal, the car will rocket forward at full power.

Yowza! That could happen, and I hadn't thought of that. You win the smart guy contest!

With an ICE car, an experienced instructor hears the engine revving, and if he/she does gradually release the brake, the car fights to move forward slowly so the instructor knows to reapply the brake. This could be worse, because the instructor will have no indication that the "go pedal" is stomped. From their prior ICE experience, it will seem as if the accelerator is fully released, so they'd feel safe releasing fully, which could cause exactly the "launch" I hope to avoid.

I now realize I should definitely NOT do anything which would "electronically lift" the accelerator pedal, because such a system must also re-enable the accelerator in some manner, and that could be dangerously abrupt.

I don't believe the accelerator pedal is visible from the passenger seat. I think there's a visual indication and a tone so that could help. Maybe chill mode will help.

As you say, I need to experiment with it when I get my car. Placing the order tonight. I think it's a go, but the worst case scenario is I will own an awesome personal vehicle. Dang, that would suck. ;-)

 

[Big Earl]

There will be a warning on the screen about both pedals being pressed, so while you can’t see the accelerator pedal or hear an engine revving, the on-screen warning is in clear view. The car also makes the error chime continuously when both pedals are pressed.

And yes, I would recommend using chill mode anytime a student is driving. 200 HP is plenty for driver education.

Congrats on the order. You’re going to love it.

 

[dmurphy]

There will be a warning on the screen about both pedals being pressed

This. A little training with the instructor that, if they see such a message, don't suddenly release the brake!

I think AquaMan may be on to something here... this could very well be the best driver-training car around. And especially since it's software controlled, wouldn't it be AWESOME if Tesla could build a custom "Training Car" mode?

Congrats on the order. You’re going to love it.

This as well. You really will love it - and will be looking for ways to disqualify it from service so you end up driving it every day.

Once you get it and get it setup, be sure to let the California folks know where your driving school business is... I think you could carve out one heck of a niche teaching on Teslas!

 

[AquaMan]

...and with one click, the world of Driver's Training was forever changed.

(At least until self-driving cars put me out of business.)​

 

[AquaMan]

be sure to let the California folks know where your driving school business is... I think you could carve out one heck of a niche teaching on Teslas!

I'll probably provide my name, business name, and change my photo to the business logo when I start advertising its existence. Meanwhile, it's not hard to figure out... We're the most highly-rated driving school in Sacramento on Yelp, by fair margin. (And our reviews aren't even fake, prompted, or rewarded.) This is one way I'll keep it that way.

Tesla's fleet sales says they've only heard from one other driving school in the USA, and they're in another state. Since that other school hasn't ordered yet they couldn't tell me their name.

 

[AquaMan]

With my order, I'm getting those "just proposed marriage" jitters now, and at first I couldn't quite figure out why I was worried, because this IS a practical decision. After some introspection, I figured it out. In a way, this could be bad marketing. Hear me out.

You see, our driving school already has the highest prices in the area. People pay the higher prices because our instructors are well-paid, true professionals who get results. Our reputation supports that. We often hire recently-retired law enforcement, and even at that we will only hire friendly folks who can stay calm and communicate clearly. But the industry is full of poorly-qualified driving instructors making barely more than minimum wage. For the most part, those are our competitors.

I don't intend to raise prices for the car, but I won't drop them either. The perception may be that our prices are only higher because we have a Tesla. Our current clients agree with me that it's worth an extra ~$80 for a lifetime of safer driving. But as a parent, I personally would NOT pay $80 more just so my teen could drive a Tesla. (And then I'd have a teen who will only complain about the $2,000 car he actually gets.)

In other words, this "flashy" decision could mask the true reason to choose us over competitors. Any thoughts, fellow parents?

 

[derotam]

With my order, I'm getting those "just proposed marriage" jitters now, and at first I couldn't quite figure out why I was worried, because this IS a practical decision. After some introspection, I figured it out. In a way, this could be bad marketing. Hear me out.

You see, our driving school already has the highest prices in the area. People pay the higher prices because our instructors are well-paid, true professionals who get results. Our reputation supports that. We often hire recently-retired law enforcement, and even at that we will only hire friendly folks who can stay calm and communicate clearly. But the industry is full of poorly-qualified driving instructors making barely more than minimum wage. For the most part, those are our competitors.

I don't intend to raise prices for the car, but I won't drop them either. The perception may be that our prices are only higher because we have a Tesla. Our current clients agree with me that it's worth an extra ~$80 for a lifetime of safer driving. But as a parent, I personally would NOT pay $80 more just so my teen could drive a Tesla. (And then I'd have a teen who will only complain about the $2,000 car he actually gets.)

In other words, this "flashy" decision could mask the true reason to choose us over competitors. Any thoughts, fellow parents?

So just lie to your customers... post a higher price for instruction in a Tesla vs an ICE car, and then just use the Tesla anyway and not charge them the higher price. Well unless they REQUEST the TESLA...then charge them because they were willing to pay it anyway, haha.

 

[AquaMan]

So just lie to your customers... post a higher price for instruction in a Tesla vs an ICE car, and then just use the Tesla anyway and not charge them the higher price. Well unless they REQUEST the TESLA...then charge them because they were willing to pay it anyway, haha.

I know you're joking, but I won't show up with a Tesla if they were expecting an ICE car. I might show up with an ICE car if they were expecting a Tesla, but only in the event the Tesla is out of service for some reason. To maintain the flexibility to do this without complaints, the price has to be the same for all cars.

Education first, cool car second. Integrity always.

 

[Big Earl]

Use this opportunity to advertise the benefits and cost savings (fuel, maintenance and depending on your provider, possibly insurance). With total lifecycle taken into account, the Model 3 might not be much more expensive than your conventional vehicles. Given your location, increased sustainability might even attract more clients.

 

[DopeGhoti]

So lower your prices by, say, $4.99. "We got Teslas, and have just lowered our rates." Theoretically you can eat that and not pay your instructors any less, because you'll be saving money on vehicular upkeep and energy infusions.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Put Honda Civic badging on it.

 

[AquaMan]

I think something like this will do nicely.

 

[AquaMan]

Use this opportunity to advertise the benefits and cost savings (fuel, maintenance and depending on your provider, possibly insurance). With total lifecycle taken into account, the Model 3 might not be much more expensive than your conventional vehicles. Given your location, increased sustainability might even attract more clients.

Actually, there are far more benefits as a commercial vehicle than as a personal vehicle. Here are a few:

• Since we average 220 miles per workday, (57K miles per year) all the math for cost savings is greatly accelerated! I've done the best math I can, and even with 100% financing, the savings, month-to-month, is greater than the difference in payments vs a $20,000 ICE car. (.11 per kWh at night, $3.25 per gallon where we are.)
• The savings for maintenance is far greater than for a personal vehicle, because an employee has to be paid for time waiting in the lobby to the shop, plus travel to get there. Plus every oil change uses a time slot that could otherwise be used productively.
• We currently pay $35 per month per vehicle for GPS tracking of our cars. That cost goes away.
  
• I'm hoping in the future the interior camera will be enabled and could be recorded like the dash cam, and I'm hoping it can include audio from the mic. Essentially, a form of employee supervision. We've added this to some cars already, but it's expensive.
• We've always avoided buying cars with built-in navigation, because within a few years it's obsolete. With the Model 3 not only do we not need a Garmin, we wouldn't want one. Even better, locations can be "beamed" to the car from an employee's phone as he views his schedule.
  
• No key exchanges. If an employee leaves, we disable their access.
• Nice cars help keep employees happy. Happy employees stay.

And some driving-school-specific stuff:

• Safety is what we do. And this is the safest car period. Can't argue with that!
  
• Situational awareness for the instructor: Every year, car manufacturers use less glass and more metal than the previous year, reducing visibility. (I think the trend is encouraged by competition for crash test ratings.) The result is blind spots which are usually tolerable for a driver with mirrors, but to an instructor who has no left-side mirror it's becoming harder and harder to keep a car safe. The Model 3 not only gives a great view in all directions, the rear camera can even be viewed constantly. I love that!
• Five human butts per day sit in our cars. For this, vegan leather is better than cloth, and better than leather.
  
• As of a couple days ago, the steering wheel is no longer leather. You know what destroys leather steering wheels fast? Sweaty palms.
• Among commercial uses, we're in the unique situation that even though we do a lot of miles, we stay local. That means we can charge at night, cheaply.

Saving the planet? Okay, sure.
Cool car? Great!
But this happens to be the best car for the money for our needs.

 

[dmurphy]

• Safety is what we do. And this is the safest car period. Can't argue with that!

Saving the planet? Okay, sure.

... and there’s how you advertise! 5-star safety all around - top safety testing all around.

Saving the planet is a great side benefit.

And I think you’ll have an uptick in business from Tesla owners, too. I know when the time comes, I’d pay a premium for a driving school for my son, so he can acclimate to electric vehicles. Learning in a Civic isn’t the same, when we own a Model 3 ... all I need is for you to open a branch here in New Jersey. Just remember - everything you know is wrong here. Stay right to go left!

You’re leading the pack and did the math before anyone else ... but this is a trend you’ll see across the board soon.

 

[Saghost]

I just went for a drive to test this out, just to remove all doubt or confusion.

Any time the brake is applied, accelerator position is ignored. If the brake pedal is held and the accelerator is released and reapplied, the car will give you a few kW of propulsion, which is very easy to overcome by applying the brakes more forcefully. This feature allows the car to be moved/driven slowly in the event that the brake pedal switch fails.

A mechanical linkage between the driver’s pedal and the instructor’s pedal is all that’s needed. No need to reinvent the wheel or modify any of the car’s wiring.

Did my own experimenting on my drive home in my X and got the same results. Wanted to clarify a few points you didn't specifically address.

Once the brake goes down, it zeros the motor output - no acceleration, no regeneration, until one pedal is released.

If the brake is released, it'll go back to the acceleration the accelerator pedal is calling for, whatever that is (but it ramps progressively over a second or so, no sudden snap.) Unlike some other cars I've had, no need to release the accelerator pedal and reapply for the car to start moving again.

If the accelerator is released, it'll quickly jump to full regen. When you press it again the message changes to say something about motor power limited that I didn't fully catch, and the motor output is limited to something like 30 or 40 kW as you suggested.

 

[AquaMan]

So this is a draft of an FAQ about Tesla that I'm preparing for our website. Any thoughts or feedback? ​

Telsa?? For driving school??​

Can I just use a Corolla?

Of course! Most of our fleet is Corollas. We will never schedule students in a Tesla for the first lesson and we will never show up with a Tesla by surprise. A Tesla driving lesson isn’t for everyone.​

The basic question: Why?

REASON 1) We did the math. For us, a Tesla has a lower monthly cost of ownership than a base-level Corolla, even with the higher pricetag! Now, that’s not true for most drivers, but each of our cars drives 4,375 miles per month on average! In Sacramento, mile-for-mile electricity costs less than 19% as much as gasoline. There’s also a much lower maintenance cost due to fewer moving parts.

REASON 2) People who learn to drive today will probably drive electric cars most of their lives.

REASON 3) Zero carbon emissions. Some might say this should be our number one reason, but frankly if the math didn’t make sense, we probably wouldn’t do it.

REASON 4) Unlike gasoline cars, the accelerator pedal is completely disabled when an instructor steps on the brake. This greatly enhances safety for a driving school car since the two pedals don’t “fight each other” when a student steps on the accelerator at the wrong time.​

Okay, but why Tesla? Why not a Nissan Leaf, or a Chevy Bolt?

REASON 1) Of all electric cars currently available, only Tesla provides enough range that we can always finish a workday without recharging mid-day. Believe it or not we average 220 miles per workday, and sometimes more. Teslas can go 310 miles on a charge, while the Nissan goes only 226 miles and the Chevy does 238. After Tesla, the next runner up is the Hyundai Kona Electric, an SUV with 258 miles of range which is “not quite enough” without micromanaging our travels and straining the limits of charging, which would degrade the lifespan of the battery. For various reasons it just wouldn’t be practical to charge in the middle of the workday. So, we charge overnight and start each day with plenty of range. Among today’s cars, this is only possible with a Tesla!

REASON 2) Safety. The Model 3 has the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle EVER tested by NHTSA! There are two main factors which contribute to this truth. First, it has a very low center of gravity because the battery is under the floor. In a collision, the extra mass of the battery maintains momentum of the passenger cabin as the outer areas crumple. It also greatly reduces rollover risk. Second, a Tesla frame uses an innovative combination of steel and aluminum, designed with safety as the top priority.

REASON 3) Teslas have features which work great for our business. They have built-in dash cameras and built-in GPS tracking. (With other cars we pay monthly fees for this.) The instructor’s daily schedule pops up on the screen upon entering the car, and with one tap the car navigates to each student’s house.

REASON 4) Teslas make students happy, and we love it too!​

Don’t driving schools crash a lot?

Maybe some driving schools do, but we don’t. We currently have over 332,000 miles on our Corollas, and none of them have ever been in a collision.​

Won’t the Tesla be different from the car I drive at home?

In small ways, yes. There is no need to “start” the car. You can’t hear the engine or feel the car shift. The parking brake “just happens” when you put the car in park. All instrumentation is on the screen above the center console, which is a bit unusual but we don’t want students staring at the speedometer anyway. There are also some features which we turn off so you don’t have to worry about them… So the car will coast, creep forward, and accelerate more like a gasoline car.​

Aren’t Teslas overpowered for a driving school car?

The Model 3 has a “chill mode” which is what we use with students. This limits acceleration. And as we mentioned above, unlike a gasoline car the accelerator pedal is completely disabled when an instructor steps on the passenger-side brake.​

Why would you teach people to drive a self-driving car?

We don’t, and it’s not. The well-known autosteer feature is essentially for freeways only, and it requires the driver to keep hands on the wheel. If a student is curious (and of course they are) we will safely demonstrate this feature, but that shouldn’t take more than a few minutes of a 2-hour lesson.​

Do I have to pay more for a Tesla lesson?

Absolutely not. This car saves us us money! Feel free to enjoy being in a Tesla, but we’re not in the business of selling Tesla rides. You should choose us because we have the best instructors in Sacramento! Our prices have always been higher than most, because we hire instructors carefully, train them more, pay them more, and we get results! Check our reviews.​

 

[kbecks13]

Any thoughts or feedback?

Dang i wanna come take a lesson with you, i like it!