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Model 3 Battery size

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#141
Free for life doesn't look possible after Jan 1st, 2017 because:
  • If it was an option, Tesla's blog post would have mentioned it.
  • Mostly heavy users like people who live near superchargers or people who drive for Uber would purchase that option making it impossible to make any profit. Let's say free for life option was offered for $2500. People who rarely supercharge, wouldn't purchase it. The current system worked so far because light users were balancing out heavy users. However, going forward, almost all light users will stick with pay-as-you-go. Let's say, they made it a $4000 option. It still wouldn't work because then mostly people who are planning to use more than that would purchase that option.
  • Free for life supercharging makes metrochargers (aka city superchargers) impossible. Elon said Tesla will sell a few million cars by 2025. That means they will have to sell to people who don't have home charging. If we assume a few million means more than 2 million cars, that means Tesla would be selling more cars than Daimler or BMW. Tesla would be competing with the following brands. The list is from this page on wikipedia.
  1. Toyota
  2. General Motors
  3. Volkswagen
  4. Hyundai
  5. Ford
  6. Nissan
  7. Fiat Chrysler
  8. Honda
  9. Suzuki
  10. Renault
 
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#143
We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center.

It would be nice if this would happen. There's only a few weeks left and isn't Tesla off the last week of this year?
 
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#144
Sonny Daze said:
We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center.

It would be nice if this would happen. There's only a few weeks left and isn't Tesla off the last week of this year?
Click to expand...
Well remember they promised the same details of the program "soon" after the May 31st announcement at the shareholder's conference about the decoupling.
 
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#145
Troy said:
Free for life doesn't look possible after Jan 1st, 2017 because:
  • If it was an option, Tesla's blog post would have mentioned it.
  • Mostly heavy users like people who live near superchargers or people who drive for Uber would purchase that option making it impossible to make any profit. Let's say free for life option was offered for $2500. People who rarely supercharge, wouldn't purchase it. The current system worked so far because light users were balancing out heavy users. However, going forward, almost all light users will stick with pay-as-you-go. Let's say, they made it a $4000 option. It still wouldn't work because then mostly people who are planning to use more than that would purchase that option.
  • Free for life supercharging makes metrochargers (aka city superchargers) impossible. Elon said Tesla will sell a few million cars by 2025. That means they will have to sell to people who don't have home charging. If we assume a few million means more than 2 million cars, that means Tesla would be selling more cars than Daimler or BMW. Tesla would be competing with the following brands. The list is from this page on wikipedia.
  1. Toyota
  2. General Motors
  3. Volkswagen
  4. Hyundai
  5. Ford
  6. Nissan
  7. Fiat Chrysler
  8. Honda
  9. Suzuki
  10. Renault
Click to expand...
It may work if Free For Life was only included/available in top-trim models only. Heavy users like livery services, uber drivers, people hoping to pimp out their vehicle on the Tesla network etc, will be unlikely to purchase a P##DL model and the inclusion of free supercharging might be enough to entice some buyers to upgrade to the higher-margin performance version.
 
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#146
Troy said:
Free for life doesn't look possible after Jan 1st, 2017 because:
Click to expand...
Perhaps you missed the line that read:

"We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center."​

That tells me there were things to be said that have not yet been mentioned.
 
#147
kgclark said:
It may work if Free For Life was only included/available in top-trim models only. Heavy users like livery services, uber drivers, people hoping to pimp out their vehicle on the Tesla network etc, will be unlikely to purchase a P##DL model and the inclusion of free supercharging might be enough to entice some buyers to upgrade to the higher-margin performance version.
Click to expand...
Yes. And, as Elon said at the Model ☰ Reveal Part I, the 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)!' would be a separate option package from the purchase of the car itself. So once someone purchases 'that package', whether it be a bundle with a battery pack capacity, or dual motor option, or a Performance option, they can take advantage of it. Will not be included in the cost of the base car, as it was for a time with the Model S 70, Model S 70D, and later, with the relaunched Model S 60.
 
#148
Red Sage said:
I expect that, as some others have noted, the 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)' has been forever separated from the cars themselves as of January 1, 2017. I think that people may have to specifically choose the option as a paid line item going forward, no matter the car they buy from Tesla. Some others think it will be gone entirely in favor of what they call 'Pay Per Use'. We'll know for certain in about three weeks, I guess.
Click to expand...
This is what I think as well, although I think there may still be an "included with the car" option as part of a package, like maybe with a larger battery. Either way I think we'll have a pretty good idea in a few weeks, since they'll need to announce any changes for the S and the X by the first of the year.
 
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#149
dsvick said:
This is what I think as well, although I think there may still be an "included with the car" option as part of a package, like maybe with a larger battery. Either way I think we'll have a pretty good idea in a few weeks, since they'll need to announce any changes for the S and the X by the first of the year.
Click to expand...
I'll count myself as one who thinks it won't be offered (unlimited free for life). I realize Elon tweeted back to someone implying that it would be available, but it's certainly possible that was the plan at the time, then it was ditched during policy vetting.
 
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#152
Pinewold said:
Great info! My hope is that Model 3 comes in ahead of the Bolt on range. Could there be slightly better efficiency due to lower weight and smaller motors to get to 250 miles for the base model with the larger version getting over 300?
Click to expand...
If that's the case, maybe we are going to see range upgrades across the board for the Model S and/or X. If so, then they might be waiting to finish those changes before releasing the Model 3's final details and pricing information.
 
#155
I hope the smallest battery's range is better than the bolts. If so I can exchange a batter upgrade for another option:)

I'm doing autopilot, cold weather, and possibly Dual motor. Add a battery upgrade if the range is 220 or another option if the range is 250 or higher for the base battery.
 
#156
LectrikPower said:
I hope the smallest battery's range is better than the bolts. If so I can exchange a batter upgrade for another option:)

I'm doing autopilot, cold weather, and possibly Dual motor. Add a battery upgrade if the range is 220 or another option if the range is 250 or higher for the base battery.
Click to expand...
The min range is 215 so you're saying the range of 23 more miles and $2000 more expensive Bolt makes the difference between a choice of battery upgrade for you?

I'd say if 238 is fine then 215 is probably fine too even if they decide not to increase the base range from the projected minimum.
 
#157
JeffK said:
The min range is 215 so you're saying the range of 23 more miles and $2000 more expensive Bolt makes the difference between a choice of battery upgrade for you?

I'd say if 238 is fine then 215 is probably fine too even if they decide not to increase the base range from the projected minimum.
Click to expand...

The bolt has nothing to do with my decision. I just referenced it's range. I would love at least 250 or so base range so I don't have to upgrade the battery. I live in Wisconsin. Range takes a big hit when it's 3°F. I want good winter range. If the base battery goes 250 or so I can spend the money on something else.
 
#158
I suggest we place bets on the ranges of the longest range M3 and the lowest range M3, with the winner receiving ever-lasting praise and respect.

Since ever-lasting praise and respect sound attractive to me, I'll venture the first guess:

Shortest range model: 225 miles
Longest range model: 295 miles

Just for good luck I'll also guess the number of cells in each pack:

Small pack: 2880 cells
Big pack: 3840 cells
 
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#159
LectrikPower said:
The bolt has nothing to do with my decision. I just referenced it's range. I would love at least 250 or so base range so I don't have to upgrade the battery. I live in Wisconsin. Range takes a big hit when it's 3°F. I want good winter range. If the base battery goes 250 or so I can spend the money on something else.
Click to expand...

Is 220 vs 250 miles really a game changer?

I'd love 250 miles base, too (along with gen 3 super charger capability). But I'm not spending thousands of dollars for 20(?) additional winter miles
 
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