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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

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#161
HarpoonS said:
Feel that, if the new P3 is equivalent to the long range S for 60-130 times and possibly dip below 3 seconds 0-60 without rollout subtracted it would dust the new M3/C63 platform stock vs stock. Hoping for a 2.8/2.9 and 10.8 1/4. Doubt it will drop to low/mid 10s since that’s P100D territory but i’d instantly switch as well. At most they’ll change its bumper / spoiler styling but interior will likely never be changed. let’s hope the back is wider than the LR tho.
Click to expand...

I think they should push the new MP3 in to tuned R8/TT territory because of the better power/weight ratio than the MS Plaid.

 
#162
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Elon Musk says no Model 3 Plaid:

www.teslarati.com

Elon Musk teases ‘kick-ass’ Tesla Cybertruck Performance trim

Elon Musk said he drove a special Performance version of the Tesla Cybertruck on Friday, as many await more info on the truck's trims.
www.teslarati.com www.teslarati.com

1695489174780.png
 
#163
Who is Elon Musk? 🙃


On a more serious note, the YouTube shills are still on the Model 3 Plaid bandwagon… not that this means sheeeiit, but it’s an interesting speculation. It’s looking more likely there won’t be a tri-motor Model 3, but a dual-motor with improved performance (using carbon sleeved rotors). We shall see…

 
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#164
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#165
Daniel L said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Elon Musk says no Model 3 Plaid:

www.teslarati.com

Elon Musk teases ‘kick-ass’ Tesla Cybertruck Performance trim

Elon Musk said he drove a special Performance version of the Tesla Cybertruck on Friday, as many await more info on the truck's trims.
www.teslarati.com www.teslarati.com

View attachment 976544
Click to expand...
wasn’t this asked in 2022? i know they tweeted it out again given the speculation and elon replied but he didn’t acknowledge the reiteration. I don’t think we’re going to see a plaid model 3, but the original P100D S wasn’t called a plaid either so 🤷🏾‍♂️ still likely we will see the performance boost we’re hoping for.
 
#166
gearchruncher said:
So much guessing in here.

The modern Model S (including Plaid) uses a 110s battery configuration. This gives a nominal voltage of 401.5V
The Model 3 uses a 96s configuration for 350.4V.

Yeah, the Model S will have more top end. 15% more voltage means a lot even if you change nothing else. There's some non-linearities in here too which mean each volt is worth more than the previous one. Which is why Porsche and others are going to 800V.

As for carbon sleeves on the Plaid- this is because they wanted to flat rate the car to 1000 HP from 0-200 MPH. Their innovative laminate and magnet structure along with carbon winding allows them to reduce the air gap between the rotor and stator. This increases torque at the same voltage. This is not free- this requires more current at the same voltage, but it means you can actually get that current instead of being limited by back EMF. Notice though they needed to go with 3 motors to get that 1000HP. What they are really doing is under-rating each motor at low speeds, so that they can keep the power flat all the way up in software. But it pulls all that off beautifully. I'm sure they very specifically tuned the whole system carefully for this. The Plaid even runs lower gear ratios (14.6K RPM rotor speed @ 162 MPH vs 18,500 for a Model 3 or Model S @ 162 MPH) to trade current and voltage capabilities of the battery.

What do we have in a Model 3 today? Well, we know the sum of the rating of the front and rear motors is already more than the battery can handle. So the battery sets the max current limit for the vehicle. If Tesla didn't care about the battery, the car could already be faster 0-45 MPH. Watts is watts, so you can't fix that with a different motor. All these motors are already 98%+ efficient, so there's no magic there.

So you could put a carbon rotor in a Model 3, and then you'd be able to keep up the power at higher speeds. This would slightly shorten the 45-60 MPH time, but not enough to be a big deal for overall 0-60. And the reality is nobody really cares about 60-100MPH times except racers. Plus, Tesla wants the Plaid in the 2's and the Model 3 in the 3's.

If you really want better 0-60, you need more watts from 15 MPH to 45 MPH. And that's the battery that is limiting that, even today. The motors are not the limit.

Remember- max watts out of a battery is at first order set by how big the battery is. And the Model S has a huge advantage of having 20% more capacity than a Model 3. You can't just re-organize the cells in a model 3 to be higher voltage, because then your allowed peak current is lower. So even a Plaid rotor in a Model 3 would give up much earlier than in a Plaid- but there's a good chance it could be flat rated to 100 MPH.

Oh, then there's the fact that the front and rear motors in a Model 3 aren't even the same architecture and they can't put a Plaid rotor in the front, so that factors in to the overall power curve at high speeds too.
Click to expand...
motor voltage increases linearly with rpm and so does power until torque starts to reduce at 5000rpm/67mph, power peaks around 5500rpm/~73mph.
at low speeds (<60mph) the power that the power can produce is limited by the rpm/voltage and the max phase amps. max phase amps designed to fit both the internal resistance and thermal profile of the coils, and also limit the mechanical torque within the physical specs of the motor/gearbox/axles.
it is NOT limited by the battery output because the inverter converts the high voltage/low current on the battery side to low voltage/high current on the motor phases side. at 15mph and full throttle the battery is outputting about 20% of the power at 75+mph, so definitely not battery limited. at 45mph it's still under 65% of the peak power output
the battery doesn't "know" the difference between low speed high load, high speed low load. in both case it's not taxing for the battery.
the only thing that's taxing on the battery is full throttle above 60/70mph
If you look at dying at different SOC you I'll see for instance at 60% SOC the torque and power are exactly the same as 95% SOC, until about 60/65mph then power tapers out, so 0-60 time stays exactly the same
 
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#167
kpanda17 said:
Responding to the OP
What would the M3 Plaid have and at what cost vs performance model?
Does this confuse vs rhe MS
And people do consider M3P vs MS
Click to expand...
for me a plaid model 3 would have more power/torque, a 0-60 somewhere around 2.5, higher top speed and higher power at illegal speeds
an optional track package with barely legal track focused tires, improved brakes/pads/liquid but not necessarily carbon. ceramic, and lighter/wider wheels.
it should also have increased cooling capacity to allow "qualifying laps" with zero power loss.
With track package it should be the best Tesla in the track. not necessarily as fast as the plaid on the ring, but very competitive on slower tracks and more playful/fun to drive
 
#168
geemy said:
motor voltage increases linearly with rpm and so does power until torque starts to reduce at 5000rpm/67mph, power peaks around 5500rpm/~73mph.
at low speeds (<60mph) the power that the power can produce is limited by the rpm/voltage and the max phase amps. max phase amps designed to fit both the internal resistance and thermal profile of the coils, and also limit the mechanical torque within the physical specs of the motor/gearbox/axles.
it is NOT limited by the battery output because the inverter converts the high voltage/low current on the battery side to low voltage/high current on the motor phases side. at 15mph and full throttle the battery is outputting about 20% of the power at 75+mph, so definitely not battery limited. at 45mph it's still under 65% of the peak power output
the battery doesn't "know" the difference between low speed high load, high speed low load. in both case it's not taxing for the battery.
the only thing that's taxing on the battery is full throttle above 60/70mph
If you look at dying at different SOC you I'll see for instance at 60% SOC the torque and power are exactly the same as 95% SOC, until about 60/65mph then power tapers out, so 0-60 time stays exactly the same
Click to expand...
do u have any reference to back this up? i'm curious to read about it..
but looking at my energy meter, whether i floor it from stop or from 70+ mph, it shows the same max kW output (~360-380 for my X)...
 
#169
Elon stating no “Model 3 Plaid” could easily simply mean it will be called “Model 3 Spaceballs“ or something else - but not use the word Plaid!
Lets all speculate what is in Elon’s mind to give the performance version of the refreshed Model 3 a quirky/interesting name!
The fastest bird in the world is the Peregrine Falcon.
So my starter for ten is - Model 3 Peregrine
 
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#174
Watts_Up said:
following the announcement
of the Hyundai Ioniq N and Kia EV6 GT models, and also the $125k Hyundai Ioniq 6 Limited.
Click to expand...
The Kia EV6 GT has been for sale for almost a year now, is a crossover, and is slower than the current M3P.
The Ioniq N is on the same platform as the EV6 and won't be here until a year from now. All we know is HP, and it will never handle as well as a Model 3.
The Ioniq 6 Limited already exists as a 320HP crossover for $52K.
How are any of these things delaying Tesla?
 
#176
Guys
I think the plaid level of vehicle is reserved for the top unique vehicles of S, X, and maybe CT
The 3 will be performance once again and the reference to Hyundai/Kia is for the new M3P to leap frog those top trims, guess Tesla waiting for those final updates
M3P will be a rocket ship just short of MSPlaid
The MSPlaid must be reserved for the top Nuremberg rocket ship performer
 
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#177
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#178
kpanda17 said:
the new M3P to leap frog those top trims, guess Tesla waiting for those final updates
Click to expand...
The new MP3 will be faster than some crossovers that are already slower than the current M3P, but they're delaying the new M3P so they can beat a slower crossover?

kpanda17 said:
S, X, and maybe CT
Click to expand...
Oh, so now I can tell you only care about drag racing, yet others are talking about brakes and suspension.
 
#180
gearchruncher said:
The new MP3 will be faster than some crossovers that are already slower than the current M3P, but they're delaying the new M3P so they can beat a slower crossover?


Oh, so now I can tell you only care about drag racing, yet others are talking about brakes and suspension.
Click to expand...
A lot to unpack

Vs crossover, don’t know yet it, will be vs where the other guys are putting the funds for speed

Vs Ioniq 6 N then no crossover if it’s Hundyia/Kia/genesis’ fastest

The MYP just beat a Durango Heallcat and it was just not a drag race, right turn half way
I like a combo race
 
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