UtahRider
Member
Beware if this is a LFP and you live in a cold climate. The performance is worse in cold weather. I am in the mountains and temps can be below freezing for weeks on end so am glad for my Panasonic 82 kWh NCA
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UtahRider
Member
Maybe not LFP? Will it have new Highland shape? From teslarati comments today "The 325+ mile range is listed as an estimate. If the car has a new battery type, Tesla would need to submit the car to the regulators for a new EPA range test to get an official EPA range for the vehicle. So the car probably has a China-made battery pack but that doesn't mean that it is LFP. Instead, it's more likely to be the China-made NMC (or NCA, not sure of the chemistry) battery from LG that Tesla uses in their China-made performance and LR vehicles, and that they export to GigaBerlin for use in the German-made Model Ys."
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
NMC are even more sensitive (with regards to degradation) at high SoC/high temperature. Any of AAKEE's posts with degradation graphics comparing NCA, NMC, and LFP will show the capacity retention drops off a cliff: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
I agree. The 4680 program has not gone well and has only produced relatively subpar cells so far. It seems like they are making a move here to conserve cells for other products.
They're finding that competing against legacy industrial Asian chemistry companies is much harder than legacy automakers. Panasonic is hardly the inert dinosaur that could be leapfrogged by a bit of silicon valley electronics, software and more motivated engineers. They're finding that in fact materials processing at scale is subtle and difficult and can't be yolo'ed.
I think the experience also shows how Panasonic is ahead over other battery makers---except CATL, which is strong in LFP. Nobody else has commercial NCA cells as far as i know---academically they're the most unstable and don't last long, but Panasonic seems to have found ways to bypass those problems, techniques that nobody else knows about. The relatively low degradation of NCA in Teslas is pretty remarkable and some of that must be some proprietary chemical tricks from Panasonic.
Fortunately Panasonic is building a new factory in Kansas. I predict that some other automaker will try to buy Panasonic cells as they also realize there's nothing better.
Panasonic Energy Breaks Ground on EV Battery Factory in Kansas
New lithium-ion battery manufacturing facility in De Soto, Kansas to add critical capacity to the domestic EV battery supply chain.
Interestingly they're building 2170s in Kansas, and plan on 4680 in Japan.
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E90alex
Active Member
BMW and Stellantis have been reported to be in talks with Panasonic.
And why would you not buy a LR Y that with the tax credit is less expensive and has a higher range.
For me, I think the Y is ugly and I don't need a vehicle that large.
E90alex
Active Member
It still needs to be certified by the EPA for it to be sold here. Doesn’t matter if it already exists in other countries.
Insurance costs, size, 5 miles
, preference for how the 3 feels over the Y when driving, I also have a feeling that the + in 325+ means something. I’m guessing at minimum the actual rating ends up at 330, maybe more.Insurance costs, size, 5 miles
In the real world, 325 on the 3 is likely to still deliver higher highway range than 330 on the Y. The higher drag of the Y hurts consumption more at higher speeds.
Y does not do it for me….they named it correctly….whY!
I would have had to change the 20” wheels and now can just wait and see if I can live with the 18’s and if not get some nice 19s Once the first set of tires head replacing. Frankly like most people we never drive more than 200 miles unless it’s a trip so all things being equal the extra range isn’t used. Just keep the acceleration and we good.
I would have had to change the 20” wheels and now can just wait and see if I can live with the 18’s and if not get some nice 19s Once the first set of tires head replacing. Frankly like most people we never drive more than 200 miles unless it’s a trip so all things being equal the extra range isn’t used. Just keep the acceleration and we good.
Tesla finally kicked out an email a day after the design resubmit requirement came out in the app. No mention of why the range was changed:
"We’re excited to let you know that your order for a Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive (order#) is in progress and will be available soon. There have been some changes since your order that we wanted to make you aware of:
• The range will be 325+ (est.) compared to the original design of 358 miles (EPA est.). The range may increase after EPA testing is completed, but will be 325 miles (est.) at a minimum.
• The base price has been lowered to $47,240, exclusive of taxes and fees.
In order to proceed with your order, please sign into your Tesla Account and update your configuration by selecting “Manage” and then “Update Design”. The new, lower base price will automatically be reflected.
We look forward to supporting you through delivery of your reconfigured Model 3 at your earliest convenience.
Thank you for supporting the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
Best Regards,
The Tesla Team"
"We’re excited to let you know that your order for a Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive (order#) is in progress and will be available soon. There have been some changes since your order that we wanted to make you aware of:
• The range will be 325+ (est.) compared to the original design of 358 miles (EPA est.). The range may increase after EPA testing is completed, but will be 325 miles (est.) at a minimum.
• The base price has been lowered to $47,240, exclusive of taxes and fees.
In order to proceed with your order, please sign into your Tesla Account and update your configuration by selecting “Manage” and then “Update Design”. The new, lower base price will automatically be reflected.
We look forward to supporting you through delivery of your reconfigured Model 3 at your earliest convenience.
Thank you for supporting the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
Best Regards,
The Tesla Team"
King David
Member
Spent all day pondering if I should switch to a Y. Ultimately decided that it's ok for looks to matter and am sticking with the new version (not to be confused with Highland) of the M3LR. She'll be Red with a white interior, and all mine 
After originally ordering in January, looks like it's coming June- for now.
(Just got the same email above)
After originally ordering in January, looks like it's coming June- for now.
(Just got the same email above)
Y is better if you need easy entry/exit, but 3 is better in every other way. Granted Y has more storage but I haven’t had a situation yet where 3 storage wasn’t enough. 3LR is amazing and checks most boxes.
The article below suggests that it perhaps could be the newest CATL LFP with manganese, but ultimately acknowledges that we have no confirmation what the battery actually is on the new version of the LR.
Tesla reintroduces Model 3 Long Range in US... with Chinese cells?
Tesla reintroduces Model 3 Long Range in US... with Chinese cells?
I never got the email, but I went in and accepted the changes the very same night it was reintroduced, and then got a conformation email about the changes. So I am guessing that is why I never got the comparison email. I am looking forward to mine, and I am starting to think Highland might not be released till next year. But hard to tell. Hopefully the battery is not a downgrade as some seem to suggest on here.Spent all day pondering if I should switch to a Y. Ultimately decided that it's ok for looks to matter and am sticking with the new version (not to be confused with Highland) of the M3LR. She'll be Red with a white interior, and all mine
After originally ordering in January, looks like it's coming June- for now.
(Just got the same email above)
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