Model 3 "Performance Brake Calipers" just red or different altogether?

[PhaseWhite]

Because you would expect them to mention that when ordering the thing. 0 mention of it. And they don't upgrade the suspension on the X/S for P models either.

Lack of those are a major reason I didn't give them an extra $11,000 in fact.

And if they WERE suddenly going to be able to ship the 18s with PS4s they'd want to offer that as an option to non-P buyers too to make more profit- but they don't.

(the 20s with sport tires on the other hand ARE an added option for all cars as a standalone purchase, and have been since march)





You can easily get the AWD up to that price and they definitely are selling that with all seasons.

I agree it's laughable, but it appears to be an attempt to drive people toward paying another 5k.

That's also why I think the 5k upgrade gets you brakes and the base model doesn't... because otherwise you're paying 5k for.... tires and rims...that were 4k (without having to NOT also get free 18s) before this. Oh, plus a spoiler and AL pedals and a software top speed unlock. So the 5k package is pretty terrible if it's not required for the brakes.

Car options packages are typically not "good deals", this is how manufacturers increase margins. I opted to skip the 5k package, not because I care that much about saving 5k, but I don't want the 20" wheels. If I need to buy new tires for the 18"s to get good performance, that seems like a small sacrifice. The car with the 18" wheels and good tires will be faster than the same tires on 20"s.

 

[juanmedina]

Because you would expect them to mention that when ordering the thing. 0 mention of it. And they don't upgrade the suspension on the X/S for P models either.

Lack of those are a major reason I didn't give them an extra $11,000 in fact.

And if they WERE suddenly going to be able to ship the 18s with PS4s they'd want to offer that as an option to non-P buyers too to make more profit- but they don't.

(the 20s with sport tires on the other hand ARE an added option for all cars as a standalone purchase, and have been since march)





You can easily get the AWD up to that price and they definitely are selling that with all seasons.

I agree it's laughable, but it appears to be an attempt to drive people toward paying another 5k.

That's also why I think the 5k upgrade gets you brakes and the base model doesn't... because otherwise you're paying 5k for.... tires and rims...that were 4k (without having to NOT also get free 18s) before this. Oh, plus a spoiler and AL pedals and a software top speed unlock. So the 5k package is pretty terrible if it's not required for the brakes.

I don't think all of that is terrible for 5k when they charging 4k alone for the wheels and tires.

The last line on the performance version what's included says:

Additional upgrades, exclusive to Performance

That line can be taken in many different ways.

 

[Petra]

There you brake and accelerate constantly for extended periods of time as you negotiate each turn which can cause a lesser brake system to not have enough time to cool off and overheat.

I can't think of a scenario where those conditions can be found in public streets so you will not need the upgraded calipers and performance upgrade unless you plan to race on the track or like the esthetics of the upgrades.

You sound like one of those people whose entire concept of driving revolves around being stopped on I-405 in LA...

You see, there are roads all over the US, and many in California, that have these things called 'turns.' When you combine a 55-60mph speed limit and empty roads with more turns per mile than your typical road course, you have this sesnation known as 'fun.' A side effect of this sensation can include cooked brakes and severe power limiting in the Model S and X.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't think all of that is terrible for 5k when they charging 4k alone for the wheels and tires.

Except for 4k you got those and the 18s with tires that come "free" with the car. With the 5k "performance" pack you only get the 20s, not a set of 18s as well.

Telsa charges $2000 in the shop for the 18s with tires (granted winter not all seasons).

So it's really "only" 2k to upgrade from 18s to 20s per that pricing.

Which means you're paying $3000 for... a spoiler, aluminum pedals...and a 10 mph higher top speed.

Which is a terrible deal.

Unless that 3k also gets you a brake upgrade (and you actually need one because you plan to track the car).

 

[juanmedina]

Except for 4k you got those and the 18s with tires that come "free" with the car. With the 5k "performance" pack you only get the 20s, not a set of 18s as well.

Telsa charges $2000 in the shop for the 18s with tires (granted winter not all seasons).

So it's really "only" 2k to upgrade from 18s to 20s per that pricing.

Which means you're paying $3000 for... a spoiler, aluminum pedals...and a 10 mph higher top speed.

Which is a terrible deal.

Unless that 3k also gets you a brake upgrade (and you actually need one because you plan to track the car).

They are charging $1500 for 19" with continental tires. $3000 for 20" for with Michelin 4s tires seem like a good deal.

Try to get quality/oem 20" wheels with nice tires for $2000 yourself and let me know how that goes. My Lexus Isf 19" wheels were $1000 a piece.

 

[Knightshade]

They are charging $1500 for 19" with continental tires. $3000 for 20" for with Michelin 4s tires seem like a good deal.

Sure. Except again, you're not buying them as a spare set- you're buying them as the ONLY set.

If you get the aeros and spend $1500 for 19s you get two sets of wheels/tires for $1500.

With the "performance" pack you're getting one set of wheels/tires for $5000 plus the value of the 18s you're not getting with the car anymore

Try to get quality/oem 20" wheels with nice tires for $2000 yourself and let me know how that goes. My Lexus Isf 19" wheels were $1000 a piece.

Everything OEM Lexus is insanely overpriced though. I've owned several, including an SC and an IS.

But I wouldn't want OEM 20s anyway- since they're not any wider than the 18s but add a bunch of useless weight and force a shorter sidewall on you.

If I was going to give up sidewall for bigger wheels I'd at least want to be able to put wider tires on- something the OEM Tesla 20s utterly fail at (as do the OEM 19s for that matter)

So what I'd really want is for them to let me get the 18s with PS4s from the factory.

 

[MP3Mike]

If you get the aeros and spend $1500 for 19s you get two sets of wheels/tires for $1500.

The $1,500 for 19"s is an upgrade price.

The tire packages Tesla sells on their site right now for the Model 3 are:

18" Winter: $2,000
19" Winter: $3,500
20" Sport/Summer: $4,000

 

[juanmedina]

The $1,500 for 19"s is an upgrade price.

The tire packages Tesla sells on their site right now for the Model 3 are:

18" Winter: $2,000
19" Winter: $3,500
20" Sport/Summer: $4,000

Exactly

 

[Knightshade]

The tire packages Tesla sells on their site right now for the Model 3 are:


18" Winter: $2,000
19" Winter: $3,500
20" Sport/Summer: $4,000

I know- in fact I quoted 2 out of those 3 prices in the first place (I did skip over the 19s because they're not even offered on the P)

Pointing out it's only $2000 to get the 20s over the 18s as "spare" wheels/tires....so you're essentially paying $3000 for the spoiler, pedals, and 10 mph speed upgrade unless you ALSO get the brakes only with the 5k package.

The $1,500 for 19"s is an upgrade price.

Ok... so see above, if only 2k is the "upgrade" cost of the 20s, and the brake upgrade isn't exclusive to the 5k package, then the 5k package is insanely overpriced. Which was what I originally said.


Not even sure what we're debating at this point?

 

[eigenv1]

Apart from which, in a single panic stop where you realize you made a mistake, "bigger" brakes won't help you at all.

The brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.

See also that $10,000 brake upgrade Porsche sells... that stops the car in exactly the same distance the stock brakes do the first time. It's the 50th time in back-to-back-to-back abuse on a race track that those 10k brakes do anything useful....

My real life experiences are different from these opinion.

1. Even after a minute on a track, the rotors can get heat soaked. The last time I was at the drag strip (much less demanding than an open track) with my Eclipse, on the 3rd run (that would be applying the brakes the 3rd time), unbeknownst to me, the rotors were heat soaked. I had quite a surprise after passing the 1/4 mile point at about 125 mph, when I applied the brakes and nothing happened. I pinned my shoulder blades on the back of the seat and jammed both feet on the brake pedal and saw the end of the track approaching. Since I can leg press over 300 lbs, I guarantee you that, with the level of adreneline flowing in that instance, the lack of pedal force was not the issue. It was heat soaked brakes *preventing the pads from locking up the tires.* Thankfully, the car slowed just enough to make the turn-off before I put in in the grass. Bigger/beefier rotors = more braking before heat soaking the system.

2. I have some fun driving in the mountains in New Mexico. There are some ling steep downhill sections of over 5 miles. Last time I had my Prius on the long downhill, the regen worked nicely until the battery indicator hit full (the top two green bars were showing). At that point, I switched to the “B” setting to reduce regen, but braking was noticeably reduced. If the car had a manual transmission, which it does not, I would have downshifted. The Tesla also cuts regen when the battery pack gets near full, so bigger brakes could be useful when regen goes away and one still needs brakes (or run the pack down quite a bit before long downhill stretches to maintain regen).

Unrelated to these observations, it seems the general irritation in this thread is not knowing exactly what comes with the “basic” performance package. Add to that 11K is 2.2 times 5K and those paying 11K are hoping to get 68.75% of the goodies that 16K (11+5) gets you.

 

[brianman]

My Jan 2013 P85 maxs out at 132mph.

And it has black calipers!

The alloy pedals and carbon fiber trim do make it feel faster thou!

Yah, the P85 Sig does that even at 70% SOC.

 

[Msjulie]

Unrelated to these observations, it seems the general irritation in this thread is not knowing exactly what comes with the “basic” performance package.

Hammer on nail..

 

[Garlan Garner]

That's incredibly naive. Conventional wisdom says if you increase power, you should increase braking capability, and for good reason. Anyone who's been a car enthusiast and tuner will tell you that. If you can accelerate harder, at any given point in time you are potentially going faster, and should have brakes to match your power. Whether it's 'spirited' driving in the canyons or actual driving on closed course.

In fact, if you get to 60 in 2 seconds, you DO need better brakes than if it takes 6 seconds to get there, because there is far less thinking time to see dangers or other issues if you accelerate that hard. Also if you're on a canyon road, the corner is going to come much more quickly and you'll be going faster when you get there.

Now I know the retort is along the lines of 'well on the road if you obey the limits (or drive sensibly), you're never going to need performance brakes' and that's true. But if you're going to obey the limits, most cars with more than 200bhp are kind of pointless anyway.

I think a lot of posts are just people justifying their decision either way - can't we be hoary for people who made their decision rather than implying some kind of ignorance if they made a decision one way or another?

So....the brakes on cars today are bigger than they were 20 years ago?

No. Regular Cars far exceed the average acceleration of 20 years ago and the brake pads and calipers are just the same. We are talking about street cars.....not track cars.

Don't give me anything about Conventional wisdom unless you are willing to criticize just about every automaker out there.

Fact. ONCE you are at 60 MPH it takes the same brake pads to slow you down no matter how fast you got up to 60 MPH. That's conventional wisdom.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That's incredibly naive. Conventional wisdom says if you increase power, you should increase braking capability, and for good reason. Anyone who's been a car enthusiast and tuner will tell you that. If you can accelerate harder, at any given point in time you are potentially going faster, and should have brakes to match your power. Whether it's 'spirited' driving in the canyons or actual driving on closed course.

In fact, if you get to 60 in 2 seconds, you DO need better brakes than if it takes 6 seconds to get there, because there is far less thinking time to see dangers or other issues if you accelerate that hard. Also if you're on a canyon road, the corner is going to come much more quickly and you'll be going faster when you get there.

Now I know the retort is along the lines of 'well on the road if you obey the limits (or drive sensibly), you're never going to need performance brakes' and that's true. But if you're going to obey the limits, most cars with more than 200bhp are kind of pointless anyway.

I think a lot of posts are just people justifying their decision either way - can't we be hoary for people who made their decision rather than implying some kind of ignorance if they made a decision one way or another?

Isn't it interesting that Tesla really didn't change the braking on the Model S and X the way you are suggesting that they need to be changed. You need to be talking to Elon....not this thread as you seem to know better than Tesla.

Tesla has upgraded/increased speed limits with software many times - WITHOUT updating brakes. You might want to tell them they were wrong for doing so.

Tesla finally unleashes full power of Ludicrous performance cars after customer complaints

Where are the brake alterations?

Tesla Model S P100D with latest Ludicrous+ update puts down 920.37 ft-lbs of torque in 3rd-party dyno test

Beats Bugatti acceleration? No way with those subpar brakes.

Tesla Model S P100D Ludicrous+ achieves record 2.28-second 0-60 mph and 10.5-sec 1/4 mile in new Motor Trend tests

Oh wait...I see the same brakes from a base level Model S 75 on that P100D. Fancy that.

 

[juanmedina]

Isn't it interesting that Tesla really didn't change the braking on the Model S and X the way you are suggesting that they need to be changed. You need to be talking to Elon....not this thread as you seem to know better than Tesla.

Tesla has upgraded/increased speed limits with software many times - WITHOUT updating brakes. You might want to tell them they were wrong for doing so.

Tesla finally unleashes full power of Ludicrous performance cars after customer complaints

Where are the brake alterations?

Tesla Model S P100D with latest Ludicrous+ update puts down 920.37 ft-lbs of torque in 3rd-party dyno test

Beats Bugatti acceleration? No way with those subpar brakes.

Tesla Model S P100D Ludicrous+ achieves record 2.28-second 0-60 mph and 10.5-sec 1/4 mile in new Motor Trend tests

Oh wait...I see the same brakes from a base level Model S 75.

Elon said that the performance version will handle better than the BMW M3 and beat anything in it's class. Good luck doing that with the current brakes, suspension and tires that are equipted on the LR model 3. And we know what happens with those brakes at the track.

 

[Shizzrock]

You should tell Elon to NOT put bigger brakes on the Performance Model then.

He must be missing something then - maybe you can educate him. Especially since a brake is a brake is a brake....and its all in the tires.

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Garlan Garner]

What?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Elon said that the performance version will handle better than the BMW M3 and beat anything in it's class. Good luck doing that with the current brakes, suspension and tires that are equipted on the LR model 3. And we know what happens with those brakes at the track.

I will take whatever Tesla put on the Model 3 and perform better than the BMW M3 just like the model S outperformed everything in its class with the brakes Tesla put on it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Shouldn't the Tesla Model X have bigger brakes than a Lambo Aventador SV? Shame on you Tesla.

How about a Ferrari 458 Italia? Tesla you should be ashamed with those small brake pads and non performance calipers.

A Dodge Demon? Tesla - why are your brakes half the size of a Demon?

Lets get classy with the Merc-E63S and its massive brakes? Tesla you should bow your head in technical braking embarrassment.

I know for sure Mustangs have bigger brakes than all Teslas. Why are they letting that Tesla on the tracks with those small brakes?

And the crem-de-la-crem Pulling a trailor? Tesla...you should have accounted for that with those small brakes you put on the X.
Tesla Model X drag races while pulling trailer

FYI....I was being sarcastic in my retorts above. lol

I won't even post more Model S videos with its subpar brakes. Everything in Model S's class has bigger brakes. lol

 

[OmahaG8]

What is going on in this thread? So much vitriol over brakes/option package. We’re all on the same team here I thought.

As it is, even if the Performance Package is a dick waving package designed for high profit margin, then Tesla certainly isn’t unique in doing so. If it makes an otherwise stock looking Model 3 stick out from the crowd without having to source your own parts, bigger brakes or not, then for some it’s worth the money over the hassle.

Probably mulched over the same limited info to the point that without any official news this may just continue.

For what it’s worth I edited my order from a standard AWD to the Performance with the upgraded package on the basis of “cause I wanted to”. Though it’s not an incredibly expensive car, it’s not particularly cheap either, may as well do it up.