Model 3 Performance feels slow?

[Jae001]

Do we know if there is any performance left on the table at this point? Especially in the 80-130mph range. I imagine we would need gearing to help boost performance at the higher speeds. I think the car pulls pretty good up top it is just noticeably less than the ridiculous pull we get at lower speeds.

I still believe the car has more to give off the line. I am sure traction is an issue so max power is not delivered off the line. This is where launch control comes in and you can use it if you have sticky tires on the car or you are at a track that is properly prepared.

 

[Gasaraki]

I still believe the car has more to give off the line. I am sure traction is an issue so max power is not delivered off the line. This is where launch control comes in and you can use it if you have sticky tires on the car or you are at a track that is properly prepared.

No. Ludicrous mode was available for the extra cash because those cars got extra thick cabling. The M3P is already at it's peak performance with it's standard wiring.

 

[Mahamilto]

No. Ludicrous mode was available for the extra cash because those cars got extra thick cabling. The M3P is already at it's peak performance with it's standard wiring.

I’m not sure we can 100% say this either way. Unless you know something we don’t.

 

[Jae001]

I’m not sure we can 100% say this either way. Unless you know something we don’t.

Yes, there is no way to know unless you are an engineer for Tesla. I believe there is more power to give but feel the issue might be tracktion and of course Tesla has to be concerned about burning their motors out too quickly especially with 8 year, 120K warranties on them.

 

[Mahamilto]

Maybe. Only thing indicating that the 980 isn’t tapped out is that the SR+ uses it and gives more power from it than it does in the performance. I’d lean toward it not being at its max because of that... but it’s not too different than the SR+ output. So hard to say, but likely a bit more juice to be offered.
Has been speculated they held back some so it the P didn’t outperform the prior ludacris S

 

[Black306]

Maybe. Only thing indicating that the 980 isn’t tapped out is that the SR+ uses it and gives more power from it than it does in the performance. I’d lean toward it not being at its max because of that... but it’s not too different than the SR+ output. So hard to say, but likely a bit more juice to be offered.
Has been speculated they held back some so it the P didn’t outperform the prior ludacris S

Where does it say an SR+ rear motor is more than a Performance? Instructions I have says they’re the same.

Agreed; I don’t think a Performance is maxed. Overly simplified, but taking nominal voltage (not peak voltage) and max amps from the instruction manual suggests 600HP (448kW) is possible.

 

[GtiMart]

Look at dyno charts. I've seen 522hp at the wheels on Performance models. If you account for drivetrain losses, Tesla might be giving you all that the motors can deliver.

 

[raptor5244]

Look at dyno charts. I've seen 522hp at the wheels on Performance models. If you account for drivetrain losses, Tesla might be giving you all that the motors can deliver.

Any dyno charts showing those numbers? I always see 450-478hp quoted.

 

[GtiMart]

Here you go : How Much Horsepower Does a Tesla Model 3 Performance Actually Have? | MotorBiscuit

Seems Misha Charoudin has done the dyno, I think he can be trusted. What you've seen are the published numbers, not a dyno result. Or they are from 2018-2019, before they gave everyone extra power in a software update maybe.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Here you go : How Much Horsepower Does a Tesla Model 3 Performance Actually Have? | MotorBiscuit

Seems Misha Charoudin has done the dyno, I think he can be trusted.

Unfortunately that guy knows little about dynos or cars and cannot be trusted.

His data purports to compare the (red) 2021 to an older (blue) car but he has clearly configured the dyno to display "corrected" torque values using very different powertrain loss curve estimates and/or gear ratio inputs for each car so it's likely that both sets of data are garbage.

Whichever car has more torque at a given speed must *always* have more power at that speed since both cars use the same 9:1 gear ratio. It's mathematically impossible for the power curves to trade places (as they do here at 80 km/h) without the torque curves also doing so at the same speed.
Power = Torque x Speed.

 

[raptor5244]

Here you go : How Much Horsepower Does a Tesla Model 3 Performance Actually Have? | MotorBiscuit

Seems Misha Charoudin has done the dyno, I think he can be trusted. What you've seen are the published numbers, not a dyno result. Or they are from 2018-2019, before they gave everyone extra power in a software update maybe.

700 lb ft of torque. No wonder I keep straining my neck.

 

[raptor5244]

Unfortunately that guy knows little about dynos or cars and cannot be trusted.

His data purports to compare the (red) 2021 to an older (blue) car but he has clearly configured the dyno to display "corrected" torque values using very different powertrain loss curve estimates and/or gear ratio inputs for each car so it's likely that both sets of data are garbage.

Whichever car has more torque at a given speed must *always* have more power at that speed since both cars use the same 9:1 gear ratio. It's mathematically impossible for the power curves to trade places (as they do here at 80 km/h) without the torque curves also doing so at the same speed.
Power = Torque x Speed.

After watching the video I agree the data can't be that far off. Most tests show around 500hp now after the power updates and similar torque figures but I think these dynos designed for ICE based vehicles can't be trusted 100% just yet.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yes, it's unfortunate that we're fixated on "crankshaft power" guesstimates loosely derived from dyno data rather than just seeking the important, meaningful, useful and *accurate* raw data right from the dyno which tells us everything we want to know - torque & power at the wheels. This misguided convention makes EV-ICE comparisons even more difficult than they already are due to the vastly more efficient transmissions typically used in EVs.

 

[Cape Mike]

Just took delivery of a new 2021 Model 3 Performance...it might just be me but it feels a bit sluggish. Wondering if anyone else who has taken delivery of a relatively new 2021 M3P feels the same?...please see some factors below:

- Sport mode driving + red line under car name + obstacle aware acceleration off
- Did several 0-60 runs on a dry and what appeared to be close to flat road at 75% SoC...didn't use a dragy so could be off a bit but I wasn't getting anything below 3.7 seconds
- Parents have a 2020 M3 LR + accelaration boost which to me feels faster, both from 0 and in a rolling scenario starting at anything from 20-60mph...I feel a kick when I stomp on the accelerator whereas on the new M3P it feels smoother and slower...I haven't actually timed it yet but will do in the next day or 2 on the same road as I tried the new M3P at same-ish SoC
- New delivery M3P is definitely on an old software version...haven't gotten the latest one pushed to me yet...wondering if that will make a difference?

The British site, Carwow, did a drag race in March 2021 between the standard range plus, the long range and the performance model 3. The results from stop to the quarter mile were as you would expect, except that the performance model did not continue to pull away from the long range after 60 mph. On a rolling start at a higher speed the long range actually pulled away from the performance model.

 

[GtiMart]

Yeah, I saw that. I expect there are variables that they did not control properly...maybe they are not EV experts. Things like SOC and battery temperature might not have been equal between the three cars for example. To take with a grain of salt until properly explained.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, I saw that. I expect there are variables that they did not control properly...maybe they are not EV experts. Things like SOC and battery temperature might not have been equal between the three cars for example. To take with a grain of salt until properly explained.

What's to explain? That the P and LR AWD are nearly identical after 60 is pretty well known... and the 1/4 mile data supports same conclusions- the difference 0-60 is almost exactly the same difference at end of 1/4 mile showing there's no real gains after that.... or do you mean the rolling start one? that's a goofy test to even bother with in a single-gear EV and lets reaction times enter into it too much to be useful.

 

[butterscotch]

The British site, Carwow, did a drag race in March 2021 between the standard range plus, the long range and the performance model 3. The results from stop to the quarter mile were as you would expect, except that the performance model did not continue to pull away from the long range after 60 mph. On a rolling start at a higher speed the long range actually pulled away from the performance model.

I saw the video too but what they didn't reveal was the SOC of each car during the test so I wouldn't take their test result too seriously. It's only subjective and fair if all cars perform the same test at the same SOC imo. LR can pull away from the performance model easily at 90% SOC vs say..30% SOC in the performance.

 

[Sukhshanti]

My M3P feels slow after watching those Plaid S videos, can we get another boost upgrade? Paid or free, I need more speed!

 

[Apprunner]

My M3P feels slow after watching those Plaid S videos, can we get another boost upgrade? Paid or free, I need more speed!

I don't even need Plaid speed but would love to have the new carbon sleeve motors so that i can keep the hp consistent through the upper ranges. Thats way more impressive than the lower end speed of the Plaid...those 60-130mph rolls i've seen are absolutely bonkers. Never though an EV could move like that from such high speeds.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The carbon is just for speeds over 160mph, it doesn't provide any performance directly. The Plaid's flat power curve is the result of motor/inverter designs that provide enough overhead for the battery voltage to vastly overcome the back EMF voltage at those high speeds.