They did for the Model S as well (at least say when they will start shipping cars with a particular option choice). Of course it is only an estimate, but it does clearly indicate which choices will delay your car and at least an idea of by how much.
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They did for the Model S as well (at least say when they will start shipping cars with a particular option choice). Of course it is only an estimate, but it does clearly indicate which choices will delay your car and at least an idea of by how much.
MrBoylan
Member
Actually, I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. I think they want their entry level car to be compelling, even without additional options (but they're not going to give away the farm). Take the Model S 70 kWh version as an example. It was a little bit more expensive than the 60 that it replaced, but it had 22 miles more range, and they rolled in supercharger-aware navigation, which had previously required the Tech Package in the 60. They also added parking sensors, automatic emergency braking. lane departure warning and power folding mirrors into the base model. It also became Auto Pilot-enabled (though Auto Pilot itself was and remains an added cost).
People who buy the Model S 70 or 70D are getting a killer car for about half the price of a fully loaded P90DL. And people who buy the $80K Model X 70D are still getting falcon wing doors and the panoramic windshield, two of the car's signature features (not to mention the killer dual motor electric drive train, 17-inch touch screen, etc.).
I think the Model 3 will come with a core package of features that will satisfy those who can't afford to (or simply prefer not to) "option it up." Not sure what those features will be exactly (touch screen control panel? navigation? power folding mirrors?). Also unsure how quickly they'll start building and fulfilling orders for the base model, but hopefully we'll get some of the details on what's included in the base model in 2 weeks (and 6 hours... ish).
Firm option pricing probably won't come until shortly before production starts later next year or early in 2018.
Rashomon
Member
The base model 3 will have the smallest battery Tesla can possibly fit it with and achieve the previously stated goal of over 200 miles real world range. The battery, the most expensive component on the vehicle, is almost the sole component where costs can be cut very significantly: by scale (Gigafactory), by design (larger cylindrical cells and overall package design), and by capacity reduction. I would be willing to bet a large sum that the base capacity ends up between 48 and 55kWh, which given rumored and hinted efficiency improvements, should be sufficient for an EPA range in the 220 mile area. There's a lot of wishful thinking on this board about features and capacities that potential owners would like to have, but when you're designing for a tight cost target, nice-to-have falls away, leaving only the must-have features. The optional larger pack will probably have another 15kWh or so, and add at least $5000 to the purchase price. It will be a huge margin improver for Tesla.
So many people are concerning themselves with what the Model 3 WON'T have as compared to current Tesla models. I find it more interesting to consider the prospect that the Model 3 will follow the Model S and X in this particular regard: from the perspective of a typical ICE owner, the car will be shockingly impressive in almost every way.
It's clear that Tesla, and Elon Musk at it's core, has a commitment to excellence, not only in terms of energy efficiency and performance but also across the board technologically. They have been and continue to be on the cutting edge of car technology. I fully expect that, while the Model 3 may not come with every single bell and whistle we Tesla uber-fans have become accustomed to in the S/X, it will have a large number of the same, and quite a few new/different, features that make a Tesla so impressive for first-time drivers, and even long-time owners.
Current Tesla owners, of which I am not one, seem to have purchased their $70,000-$130,000 cars for a number of significant reasons, not the least of which is that they are incredible pieces of technology. Door handles that present themselves as you approach, a 17" touchscreen with options for anything and everything you can think of, unprecedented performance for a luxury car, all without the use of any gas whatsoever - these are just a few things that make a Tesla special. If you compare a Model S to a similarly priced Lexus, BMW or Mercedes, for people like us, there's no contest. Tesla is head and shoulders above the rest and still on the rise. For a car Tesla hopes to serve as its tent pole to help introduce the EV Revolution to the world's majority, I'm confident they will follow suit with their past releases, finding way to cut costs to even make Tesla part of the "real world," and bring that same innovation and "WOW" factor we've come to appreciate to the $35,000 base-price Model 3.
With all due respect (and my girlfriend, a proud owner of one, would kill me if she read this), they're not going to roll out a Honda Civic with a motor and no engine and call it a day. The Model 3 will be incredible. Just wait two more weeks.
It's clear that Tesla, and Elon Musk at it's core, has a commitment to excellence, not only in terms of energy efficiency and performance but also across the board technologically. They have been and continue to be on the cutting edge of car technology. I fully expect that, while the Model 3 may not come with every single bell and whistle we Tesla uber-fans have become accustomed to in the S/X, it will have a large number of the same, and quite a few new/different, features that make a Tesla so impressive for first-time drivers, and even long-time owners.
Current Tesla owners, of which I am not one, seem to have purchased their $70,000-$130,000 cars for a number of significant reasons, not the least of which is that they are incredible pieces of technology. Door handles that present themselves as you approach, a 17" touchscreen with options for anything and everything you can think of, unprecedented performance for a luxury car, all without the use of any gas whatsoever - these are just a few things that make a Tesla special. If you compare a Model S to a similarly priced Lexus, BMW or Mercedes, for people like us, there's no contest. Tesla is head and shoulders above the rest and still on the rise. For a car Tesla hopes to serve as its tent pole to help introduce the EV Revolution to the world's majority, I'm confident they will follow suit with their past releases, finding way to cut costs to even make Tesla part of the "real world," and bring that same innovation and "WOW" factor we've come to appreciate to the $35,000 base-price Model 3.
With all due respect (and my girlfriend, a proud owner of one, would kill me if she read this), they're not going to roll out a Honda Civic with a motor and no engine and call it a day. The Model 3 will be incredible. Just wait two more weeks.
Ah, but the Model S 70 (or the prior 60) was the actual price point they wanted their entry level to be at. Not the $50,000 price they had been previously advertising. The 40kW model checked that box, and then they moved on to what they REALLY wanted to price the entry level car at.
I fully suspect the actual "entry-level" Model 3 will be very reasonably appointed, but I doubt that is going to be at the $35,000 price point. I think the $35,000 car could be short lived, and then they will settle out the base Model 3 at the price point they would rather sell it at.
Straubel's comment at that recent conference that “We don’t really need more performance, we don’t really need much more range, we need to focus on cost” hints to me that they are struggling with getting the costs down right now.
Audrey
Member
As the model S competes with other cars at the $70K price point, the model 3 should compete with other cars at the $35K price point. I expect it will be a $35K car in terms of styling, quality, and performance. Look at $35K sedans that exist and swap the engine for an all-electric motor. The Tesla-fied technology attributes (large touch screen, flush exterior door handles, etc.) will be part of the styling that makes it a Tesla.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Plenty of the $35,000 base versions of these cars will be sold -- to taxi/livery companies, fleet sales/leasing firms, and rental agencies. Possibly also to municipalities as well. Tesla Motors will retain its current sales model through direct sales over the internet to individual end users. There will not be any 'independent franchised dealerships' that have contractual obligation to order 'acres and acres of cars' to sit on a lot somewhere, waiting for someone to come over to buy them. They will have hundreds of cars available for use as demos at their Tesla Store/Gallery locations across the US, before the first Deliveries take place. And no matter how few cars reach Customers during 2017, Production will be sufficient to allow Model ≡ to be in the Top 30 in US passenger car sales during the 2018 calendar year.
Krugerrand
Meow
For giggles can you list the options and their pricing as you see them that gets you to $70k? Because my imagination and mathz are no where near that figure. Are you expecting a hover feature for $15k?
Well, for starters a "P" upgrade on a Model S is $20,000. Going to AWD is $5000, and autopilot is $2500. That easily gets you into the $60s without even looking at interior upgrades like paint color, upgraded materials, etc.
Now, maybe on the Model 3, all these things will be priced differently, but the competition prices some of this stuff similarly - there is a huge difference in price between a fully loaded 3-series and the base model. I can get a 3-series up into the $60's easily with the 6-cyl engine, performance options, AWD, all the creature comforts, etc.
Krugerrand
Meow
And you are quoting 3 series without their main performance option. The M3 starts at about 60K and can easily cost 85K.
MrBoylan
Member
It's pretty easy to get to $70K if you use the Model S or Model X option pricing as a reference, and even go a bit lower on the assumption that they would/could offer the same options on the Model 3 for less.
Here's a path to get the Model 3 up over $80,000 and this is by *discounting* the option pricing from the S or X by 20% to 25%. I'll assume a base model 3 with 60 kWh pack and 17-inch wheels (smaller body, smaller wheels than S or X):
Model 3 Possible Options Pricing
Base (60 kWh) $ 35,000.00
Larger Battery (80 kWh) $ 10,000.00
Dual Motor $ 3,750.00
Performance Upgrade option (includes smart air suspension) $ 15,000.00
Ludicrous Speed Upgrade $ 7,500.00
Auto Pilot $ 2,500.00
Supercharger Access $ 2,000.00
Premium Interior/Lighting Package $ 2,500.00
Ultra HiFi Sound $ 2,000.00
Cold Weather Package $ 750.00
Multi-Coat Paint $ 1,250.00
Leather Seats $ 2,000.00
19" premium wheels $ 2,000.00
Total before Incentives $ 86,250.00
All options are priced 20% to 25% *lower* than the S or X except AutoPilot. Supercharger access may or may not be included in base price. If it's an option I expect it to be around $2K (plus or minus $500). None of the above is inconsistent with current Tesla pricing (in fact, it might be a little generous).
It's possible that they won't include the same kind of options on the 3 as on the S and X, maybe to limit the fully loaded pricing, but I find that unlikely. And yes, I expect Tesla to get some flack - "Model 3 Pricing Revealed: So Much for $35K!" but as others have said, this is fully consistent with other auto manufacturers, and with Tesla itself. It's absolutely OK to offer an awesome car for $35K and an awesomer car based on the same platform for more than twice that.
Any holes in my logic?
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
Being an analytical type person, I tried to list those items which would not be on today's typical $35,000 car and make them options. I have recently started to look for a car for visiting guess now we are trying to get down to one car and I don't want to lend guests my Tesla Model X P90DL. I can say you don't get much for $35k or even $45k. Don't even try to find an electric or Hybrid plug in with descent opinions for under $50k. They may start lower but everything is an option. You also have to look at this not where we are today but what will be the state of technology in 18 months.
Here is my list with a very approximate price:
Wheels (16",18",19") (Chrome, Black) ($4,000+)
Leather Seats, Vegan-Seats ($2,000-$3,000)
Internet (3G/4G) ($1,000-$2,000) may require monthly fee
Supercharger Network ($2.000+)
Advanced Navigation System ($3,000-$4,000) (would require Internet option)
HEPA Filter (Biohazard Mode) ($1,000)
Sun Roof, Pano or equivalent ($2,000-$4,000)
Autopilot ($3,000) (would require Internet option)
Dual Motor (D) ($4,000+)
Sports Edition (P) ($5,000+)
Better Stereo ($1,000-$2,000)
Larger Battery (300 Miles, 400 Miles) ($5,000-$10,000)
Special Paint (Multi-Coat, Metallic) ($2,000-$3,000)
Active Spoiler ($1,000 - $2,000)
Electronic Suspension ($1,000 - $2,000)
Summons Capability. ($1,000 - $2,000) (would require Internet option)
Towing Package ($1,000-$2,000)
Increased Seating (Rear facing seats) ($1,000-$2,000)
Heated/Cooled Seats ($1,000)
Cold Weather Package ($1,000)
Larger Charger ($2,000)
CHAdeMO ($500)
$42,500 - $60,500 plus the base cost of the car $35,000
There is no way anyone would get every option and there is no way anyone would pay $95,000 for a Model 3. But I am sure there are people who would pay $75k to $85k for a fully loaded Sports Edition with Dual motors with a range of 400 miles.
Most likely individual items would be combined into packaged groups bringing the cost down like a sports edition (like the S and X P90D, or premium option group which could include upgraded seats, navigation system, heated/cooled seats, etc. As some of the options may have an effect on the distance the car can go between charges some option may require purchase of larger battery
The number are very rough, Tesla may have more room to give on something like a leather seat vs something they outsource like a nice set of wheels.
I am sure there are a lot more items I have forgotten and the pricing is just for discussion purposes. Since Tesla won't want the new Model 3 to compete with the very popular Model S and X they will purposely keep a separation between models. For example, even though they will want the Model 3 to be responsive they won't want the 0-60 speed to come close to the lowest model of and X or S as they still plan on marketing these cars. Therefore you probably won't see a Model 3 even with the performance package to even approach any more than 0-60 in 4.8 to 6.0 seconds.
As info the base price of a Tesla Model X varies between $70,000 for at 70D to approximately $162,000 for a well optioned P90D with ludicrous mode. A $92,000 difference.
LATELY THERE IS THIS GROUP OF FORUM POSTERS WHO WANT TO ARGUE TO AD NAUSEAM ABOUT EVERY POSTINGS. EVEN IF YOU PROVIDE THE JUSTICATION FOR YOUR REASONING THEY STILL WANT TO ARGUE. BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPINION AND I RESPECT OTHER's OPINIONS BUT I COME TO THIS FORUM BECAUSE I OWN A TESLA AND LIKE TO SHARE-READ INFORMATION WITH OTHER TESLA OWNERS. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MY LIST OF POSSIBLE OPTIONS AND ITEM COST COME UP WITH YOUR OWN LIST.
Here is my list with a very approximate price:
Wheels (16",18",19") (Chrome, Black) ($4,000+)
Leather Seats, Vegan-Seats ($2,000-$3,000)
Internet (3G/4G) ($1,000-$2,000) may require monthly fee
Supercharger Network ($2.000+)
Advanced Navigation System ($3,000-$4,000) (would require Internet option)
HEPA Filter (Biohazard Mode) ($1,000)
Sun Roof, Pano or equivalent ($2,000-$4,000)
Autopilot ($3,000) (would require Internet option)
Dual Motor (D) ($4,000+)
Sports Edition (P) ($5,000+)
Better Stereo ($1,000-$2,000)
Larger Battery (300 Miles, 400 Miles) ($5,000-$10,000)
Special Paint (Multi-Coat, Metallic) ($2,000-$3,000)
Active Spoiler ($1,000 - $2,000)
Electronic Suspension ($1,000 - $2,000)
Summons Capability. ($1,000 - $2,000) (would require Internet option)
Towing Package ($1,000-$2,000)
Increased Seating (Rear facing seats) ($1,000-$2,000)
Heated/Cooled Seats ($1,000)
Cold Weather Package ($1,000)
Larger Charger ($2,000)
CHAdeMO ($500)
$42,500 - $60,500 plus the base cost of the car $35,000
There is no way anyone would get every option and there is no way anyone would pay $95,000 for a Model 3. But I am sure there are people who would pay $75k to $85k for a fully loaded Sports Edition with Dual motors with a range of 400 miles.
Most likely individual items would be combined into packaged groups bringing the cost down like a sports edition (like the S and X P90D, or premium option group which could include upgraded seats, navigation system, heated/cooled seats, etc. As some of the options may have an effect on the distance the car can go between charges some option may require purchase of larger battery
The number are very rough, Tesla may have more room to give on something like a leather seat vs something they outsource like a nice set of wheels.
I am sure there are a lot more items I have forgotten and the pricing is just for discussion purposes. Since Tesla won't want the new Model 3 to compete with the very popular Model S and X they will purposely keep a separation between models. For example, even though they will want the Model 3 to be responsive they won't want the 0-60 speed to come close to the lowest model of and X or S as they still plan on marketing these cars. Therefore you probably won't see a Model 3 even with the performance package to even approach any more than 0-60 in 4.8 to 6.0 seconds.
As info the base price of a Tesla Model X varies between $70,000 for at 70D to approximately $162,000 for a well optioned P90D with ludicrous mode. A $92,000 difference.
LATELY THERE IS THIS GROUP OF FORUM POSTERS WHO WANT TO ARGUE TO AD NAUSEAM ABOUT EVERY POSTINGS. EVEN IF YOU PROVIDE THE JUSTICATION FOR YOUR REASONING THEY STILL WANT TO ARGUE. BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPINION AND I RESPECT OTHER's OPINIONS BUT I COME TO THIS FORUM BECAUSE I OWN A TESLA AND LIKE TO SHARE-READ INFORMATION WITH OTHER TESLA OWNERS. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MY LIST OF POSSIBLE OPTIONS AND ITEM COST COME UP WITH YOUR OWN LIST.
MrBoylan
Member
Some of what you're listing makes sense, but I can't see how/why Tesla would charge more for AutoPilot on the Model 3 than they do on the Model S and Model X. With your math, AutoPilot + Summon (which is part of AutoPilot on the S and X) would be $4000-$5000, when it is $2500 on the S and X. Why the discrepancy? Also, the chassis of the Model 3 will be much smaller than the S and X so I think it's really unlikely they will have any 7-seat option, rear or front facing. No room for it.
And with a smaller car, less paint would be used than on the S or X, so why would the upgraded paint option be more than it is on the S and X? Upgraded paint on the S and X is $1000 for metallic, $1500 for multi-coat. Same options on the 3 (smaller/cheaper car) should be less, not the $2000-$3000 you list. Upgraded paint options are lower on most of the comparably priced competive models.
Also, Navigation for $3000-$4000? Highway robbery! They rolled navigation into the base model S 70 (it had required the tech package in the 60). I think it's possible they'll charge for navigation on the Model 3 but not $3000-$4000. They also might give away a basic NAV in the base model, but include traffic aware/supercharger aware navigation in a "long distance driving" package which also included supercharger access.
Good points but I don't think they'll offer a Model 3 with 400 miles of range. At least not at first. The S and X are the flagships. They'll get the highest range for the foreseeable future. With an 80 kWh battery, lower weight, and better drag coefficient, they could probably get 275 to 300 miles out of a Model 3. I think that will be the cap for the first edition.
I really doubt this will be the case. 0-60 in 6.0 wouldn't compete with a 3 series which can do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds (performance model). I think the Model 3 base 0-60 will be around 5-6 seconds and the fully loaded P model will be well under 4 seconds. The car will be lighter and (assumably) more aerodynamic than a Model S or Model X. And a "P" model Model 3 with Ludicrous Speed would be close in price to a base model S so it's OK if it can beat it off the line. But I do think they will keep the Model S Ludicrous as the fastest in the line-up until the new Roadster comes out.
Not quite. Model X base price is $80,000. Fully loaded is $152,000 - a $72K range. Here's a feature by feature pricing guide to the Model X:
Buyers Guide to Tesla Model X Options and Pricing
Has anyone seriously considered the prospect that there would be no "PxxD" config for the Model 3? I'm not suggesting there won't be or that I have any idea, but looking at all these posts and potential options in the Model 3 makes me wonder how far they might go, or where they might stop, in offering upgrade options so as to keep the Model S relevant.
Great list! Personally my only quibble is that I have doubts there will be a $2000 fee for Supercharger Access given that the Supercharger is such a fundamental part of the Tesla experience.
A P80DL Model 3 with all of these features, while not cheap, would be an incredible vehicle. I don't see why Elon would hold back its performance just to maintain S superiority, and given its smaller size, I would expect the fastest Model 3 to post faster 0-60 times than the current P90DL Model S -- probably in the 2.5 second range. BMW has no qualms about having the M3 outperform its bigger cousins -- I don't know why Tesla would.
While $85,000 is not cheap, a fully optioned Model 3 loaded with Tesla technology and supercar performance for less than $100K would be an absolutely stunning vehicle. And the $35,000 Model 3 without all the bells and whistles is clearly going to be a game changer in its own right.
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MrBoylan
Member
The development for "P" and Ludicrous mode, AutoPilot, etc. is a sunk cost. If they can improve profit and increase ASP by offering these on the Model 3, then why not do it? The S and X are different cars, large sedan and large SUV. Different market segment. Many manufacturers have large overlaps in pricing between fully loaded "entry models" and stripped down upgrade models. I suspect it will be the same for the Model 3. I do expect a performance option for the Model 3.
SureValla
Member
I bet there will be and here's why: tesla doesn't have enough supercharger out there right now to handle the demand that producing 500k models 3s per year will bring. Forcing people to pay a flat fee or even paying per use time would be a way to cut the demand down some.
Does anyone know if tesla has made any statements about how they intend to handle more cars on the supercharger network?
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