Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[AAKEE]

The guidance for storage is generally 40% SOC, so I would recharge once below that. I think 70% for daily charge limit is good. Tesla asks users to charge to 100% once a week, could do that once a week on Sunday nights. Just my 2c.

We know that lithium batteries do not suffer or hurt from low SOC. As long as they are kept above the minimum voltage they actually degrade less at low SOC.

Storage charging will try to find the sweet spot between low calendar aging and the wish to be quickly charged to 100% for usage.
I have quite a few lithium battery chargers and they storage charge to 3.7 or 3.75V/cell depending on the charger for lithium ion, which is around 50%.

We can see from the pictures in @Baluchi ’s post #456 that there is a step in the calendar aging at 55 to 70% depending on the chemistry where the calendar aging increases rapidly if the SOC is held above.
( that ”step” is due to the central graphite peak in the battery).

 

[OldPro]

Lol - that comment above was moved from another thread. The question was about Chinese batteries. The context is all gone when a moderater moves messages to another thread without notating the move

Thank you. Simple question based on my NZ buddy info as told to him by Tesla in New Zealand. Info given to him is Chinese made (Shanghai) batteries are of a different composition. Question is: What is the difference from American Model 3?

 

[OldPro]

It's no different for North America. Manual states the same. I have an LFP and been charging to 100% all day.

I believe there is a difference in the Chinese made Model 3 battery packs.

 

[Baluchi]

I believe there is a difference in the Chinese made Model 3 battery packs.

My understanding is US made standard range cars are using the Chinese made CATL battery packs.

 

[amit_gunner]

Wanted to share my short trip efficiency with all.

So, this morning i travelled total 61 KM on Highway. I used schedule departure to actually charge 100% so battery was warm and cabin was warm as well when i left home.

Weather was about -10C this morning. So, a bit chilly but we call it Spring in Canada. Lol.

Total travel: 61 KM

Range used: 71 KM with 149 WH/KM

Drove mostly 110 KM/h with few traffic where i was stop n go situation. That probably helped the efficiency.

I drove it I would say 70% on autopilot with max seed set at 110 KM/h. HVAC i used it normally with heat and heated seat on. Heat was about 22.5 C and Heated seat at 1 and sometimes 2 strips.

I was actually pleasantly Suprise with this result losing only 10KM from real range.

I think with LFP preconditioning battery is the key. If you have a commute daily use schedule departure it worked well for me.

Hope this helps. Sorry American friends for using KM and C on all my trip referrals.

 

[pipp]

Wanted to share my short trip efficiency with all.

So, this morning i travelled total 61 KM on Highway. I used schedule departure to actually charge 100% so battery was warm and cabin was warm as well when i left home.

Weather was about -10C this morning. So, a bit chilly but we call it Spring in Canada. Lol.

Total travel: 61 KM

Range used: 71 KM with 149 WH/KM

Drove mostly 110 KM/h with few traffic where i was stop n go situation. That probably helped the efficiency.

I drove it I would say 70% on autopilot with max seed set at 110 KM/h. HVAC i used it normally with heat and heated seat on. Heat was about 22.5 C and Heated seat at 1 and sometimes 2 strips.

I was actually pleasantly Suprise with this result losing only 10KM from real range.

I think with LFP preconditioning battery is the key. If you have a commute daily use schedule departure it worked well for me.

Hope this helps. Sorry American friends for using KM and C on all my trip referrals.

That sounds really good. Being from a warmer place, you got me wondering, though, how does autopilot do in snowy/icy road conditions? Or were the roads all clear on your route?

 

[amit_gunner]

That sounds really good. Being from a warmer place, you got me wondering, though, how does autopilot do in snowy/icy road conditions? Or were the roads all clear on your route?

It was bitter cold but no snow on the road. It was all clear. I did not drive this car in snow yet. Only picked up a Week ago and we didnt get any significant snow yet. Hopefully i dont have to test it before next Winter .

 

[theothertom]

I think with LFP preconditioning battery is the key.

Yes, that's consistent with other reports. Preconditioning is the key.

 

[Nezz]

I've been charging to various levels from 75 to 95% after following this forum on not necessarily charging to 100% if I don't need to. There are 1500 mile on the odometer, and I took delivery in December 2021.

After 20 days since my last 100% charge, I received this message. I suppose I'll do a 100% charge for calibration.

Notice
The charge limit in your vehicle has been automatically adjusted to 100% in order to perform battery calibration.
Please charge your vehicle at the earliest opportunity and allow it to continue until 'Charging Complete' is displayed to maximize the performance of your battery.

 

[Baluchi]

I've been charging to various levels from 75 to 95% after following this forum on not necessarily charging to 100% if I don't need to. There are 1500 mile on the odometer, and I took delivery in December 2021.

After 20 days since my last 100% charge, I received this message. I suppose I'll do a 100% charge for calibration.

Notice
The charge limit in your vehicle has been automatically adjusted to 100% in order to perform battery calibration.
Please charge your vehicle at the earliest opportunity and allow it to continue until 'Charging Complete' is displayed to maximize the performance of your battery.

View attachment 776447

That's cool. I didn't know the car would warn us if we didn't go to 100% for a long time.

The message kinda drives home that Tesla's motivation for telling people to charge to 100% is so the BMS can calibrate. It has little to do with the health of the battery itself, despite what most people believe. It think the misconception can be traced back to Elon's tweet about stating LFP batteries "prefer" to be charged to 100%, which was misleading.

 

[theothertom]

I didn't know the car would warn us if we didn't go to 100% for a long time.

Because LFP battery cells are relatively low voltage and at low state of charge, the BMS has a difficult time distinguishing between a charged battery and a discharged one.

 

[pipp]

I've been charging to various levels from 75 to 95% after following this forum on not necessarily charging to 100% if I don't need to. There are 1500 mile on the odometer, and I took delivery in December 2021.

After 20 days since my last 100% charge, I received this message. I suppose I'll do a 100% charge for calibration.

Notice
The charge limit in your vehicle has been automatically adjusted to 100% in order to perform battery calibration.
Please charge your vehicle at the earliest opportunity and allow it to continue until 'Charging Complete' is displayed to maximize the performance of your battery.

View attachment 776447

Very interesting! So, do you have an SR+ LFP or one of the newer cars with longer range? And, I’m wondering what has your projected range looked like over the last 3 months?

 

[sailor mike]

Bjorn did a winter range test on the LFP Model 3. Lowest temp was like -8 C. Great effeciency he got. I know -8 maybe not too cold but at least some reference point. Check it out here is the link.

amit_gunner, a couple of questions. I have very recently received my 2022 Model 3 RWD (great, love it). Are you aware of the kWh of the LFP battery, or how can I determine that? Second, on my charging screen after 100% charge it indicates that max charge is 362 km, is that normal (adjusted to temp/driving history perhaps) or should it read the EPA number? Thanks​

 

[Ther0ck]

Mine shows 440km but I don't use km but %. The battery is 60kwh. You can buy a OBD2 bluetooth adapter and use your phone with app to see what is the full capacity of your battery.

 

[amit_gunner]

amit_gunner, a couple of questions. I have very recently received my 2022 Model 3 RWD (great, love it). Are you aware of the kWh of the LFP battery, or how can I determine that? Second, on my charging screen after 100% charge it indicates that max charge is 362 km, is that normal (adjusted to temp/driving history perhaps) or should it read the EPA number? Thanks​

It should be 60 KWh battery total. Mine at 100% shows 439 KM but same like most others here i always use energy instead of distance. Thts the first thing i changed when i got the car. When i am on any trip i always look at my energy graph for consumption and arrival battery percentage. Hope this helps

 

[sailor mike]

It should be 60 KWh battery total. Mine at 100% shows 439 KM but same like most others here i always use energy instead of distance. Thts the first thing i changed when i got the car. When i am on any trip i always look at my energy graph for consumption and arrival battery percentage. Hope this helps

Yes, thank you. So, to confirm, I should expect the 100% KM to change with time based on driving history, and not a set EPA number? I have also set to KM but still have a little part of the brain wondering where that km comes from.

 

[amit_gunner]

Yes, thank you. So, to confirm, I should expect the 100% KM to change with time based on driving history, and not a set EPA number? I have also set to KM but still have a little part of the brain wondering where that km comes from.

You should see EPA est when you charge to 100%. Mine shows 100% charging to 439 ish KM. Yours should be similar to that. Also on the app when put your charging slider to 100% and hold it it shows KM for that 100% charge.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So, to confirm, I should expect the 100% KM to change with time based on driving history,

No, it changes based on the estimated capacity of your battery. Is completely unaffected by driving history (except to the extent that driving the car causes capacity loss).

It’s unclear what to expect for LFP cells. It is typical for non-LFP to lose about 10% in the first couple years, with 5% or 15% also being normal.

Tesla keeps it super simple to see how your capacity is doing. No hiding it.

 

[bin31z]

The efficiency of my LFP battery and ability to charge to 100% has me questioning whether or not I want to upgrade to a Model Y LR in December. In sunny California, setting autopilot to 70-75, I’m regularly beating my 273 range estimate. I’ve never seen this in my old 2018 model 3 LR nor my coworker with 2021 model y LR. On top of that, lfp degradation is supposedly 1/2 that of other battery chemistries. Based on my research, in the DIY home battery space, it has been long accepted that LFP is the way to go for safety, battery longevity and cost.

 

[Nezz]

Very interesting! So, do you have an SR+ LFP or one of the newer cars with longer range? And, I’m wondering what has your projected range looked like over the last 3 months?

See Battery Degradation Report below. Yeah the range started out at 273.77 miles, technically a 2022 RWD LFP. It is now estimating 271.21 coming to a 0.94% range loss after a 100% complete charge today. You can see where I stopped doing 100% charges all the time at about 1,200 miles, the estimation can be off. And by off I mean +/- 1%. We're really nit-picking here.