thebestiam1
Member
Does leaving the car at 100% charged for a day cause any damage to the battery? Specs, 21 SR+ w/ LFP battery. TIA!
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Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion
- Thread starter Baluchi
- Start date
Just did a trip back home. Was around 2c, precon the battery and cabin. Started at 100%. Drove 105km/h 98% of the time. Did 250km. SOC was at 16% when arrived home. I could probably do another 30km.
Our average wh/km was 175.
ABC : Always be charging. Also you have a Long Range with a NCA battery. This is a LFP battery discussion. Different chemistry.
So leaving at 100% charged and plugged in will not damage the battery, but leaving at 100% and not plugged in causes damage?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The ”damage when left at 100%” is a myth.
There is actually a lot of myths around lithium batterys.
For starters, read the Tesla manual. If leaving the car at 100% would damage the battery, would’nt Tesla mention this in the manual with a note like “do not leave the car at 100% ? There is no such information or “do not” advice.
Next thing is research. From battery research we know quite much about lithium batteries.
There is no damage that comes from leaving the battery at 100%.
Calendar aging is what degrades the battery when it is not used.(Cyclic aging ages from charging and driving).
There is increased calendar aging at high SOC. But at normal temperatures the degradation is about the same as at 80-90%. In some cases 100% even cause (slightly) less degradation then 80-90%.
In very high temperatures 100% SOC cause more degradation than 80-90% but not with much. You need to leave the car for a long period to be able to measure the difference.
Look at the LFP Graph below. The lower tge SOC, the less degradation but you have a plateau at 80-100% that cause about the same degradation.
The latest LFPs might have reduced calendar aging, but most probably the SOC dependency look about this anyway.
That said, leaving the car for one day at 100% is not causing any damage. It will cause about the same degradation as 80-90%.
Over a long period, if the battery is left at lower SOC each night, about 70% or less, this will reduce the calendar aging.
But as the LFP Teslas need to be charged to 100% on a regular basis to keep in count of the SOC, this is a must that has priority over keeping low SOC.
The data from the forst years of LFP in Teslas also show low degradation so there is not much to worry about.
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They used Panasonic NCA until about Q1 2022.
Since last spring, like Q2-Q3, tesla use LG NMC, 78.8 kWh Full Pack when new. for M3P.
MYP made in Berlin also get this pack.
Seems like a good battery, but doesnt provide the same power as Panasonic.
Not unless the car is exposed to high temperature. Having said that I still make an attempt to minimise the time spent at 100% with my LFP, within reason.
I’m back at 428km at 100% charge now @ 20k, after visiting QLD. Maybe the warmer temperature? Useless number I know, but it’s nice to see it go up and not down
40,000 mile (64,000 km) update for my Sep 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now 16 months old and was originally rated at 253 miles on a full charge. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 52.4 kWh (down 4.1% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 243 miles (down 4.0% from my original range of 253 miles). I've had Tessie since my first day or two or ownership, so this data shows the entire life of the car. The curve on my car's degradation is definitely leveling out, and my rated range is actually the same as it was in my last updated (243 miles), so it seems to be playing out by the book, with the most severe degradation coming in the first year.
According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 212 Wh/mi over the life of the car (down from 213 at the 35,000 mile update). Seasonal temps and driving style are HUGE when it comes to the car's efficiency. In the winter I can expect 240+ Wh/mi when it's below 30f, and in ideal temps (75-85f) I routinely manage under 200 Wh/mi on my 100 mile roundtrip commute. Assuming I could tap into the current 52.4 kWh battery at my lifetime average 212 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a real-world range of 247.1 miles. It's been fairly warm for most of the winter so far, so my lifetime efficiency has actually improved since my last update.
My charging is mostly Level 2 from a Grizzl-E delivering 24 amps on a 40 amp circuit in my garage. I charge most nights due to a long commute, typically to about 70-80% a few times per week and a 100% once or twice a week. I do fast charge about once per week on average because I'm a beekeeper and I make honey deliveries across a few counties most weekends...I use both Superchargers and CCS chargers like Electrify America or Chargepoint, depending on which are more convenient at the time.
Tessie says I've spent $1,004.12 on electricity driving the car, while the same distance in my old Ford Focus would've cost $3,916.39 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 26% compared to keeping my old car. Assuming the average US emissions of 0.85 pounds CO2 per kWh, the 8.497 kWh used while driving equates to 7,222 pounds of CO2 spent driving my Tesla. If I'd kept my 2012 Ford Focus (37mpg), I would've used 1,081 gallons of gas to travel these 40,004 miles. At about 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon, that would've been 20,539 pounds of CO2. So I'm spewing 35% of the carbon emissions than I would've released in my efficient little Focus. As the grid moves toward more renewables, that should only get better over the life of the car. Also, my Focus would've had 230,000 miles on it now, so I'm pretty sure I'd have replaced it--in that sense, the argument that keeping the old car instead of buying a new EV has kinda vanished. Also, I sold my Focus to a guy who was looking for a fuel efficient car to replace his truck for commuting, so it was win-win as far as I'm concerned.
I'll try to post another update at 45,000 miles. We should be at the tail end of the coldest part of our winter by then, so my efficiency will be taking a hit.
According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 212 Wh/mi over the life of the car (down from 213 at the 35,000 mile update). Seasonal temps and driving style are HUGE when it comes to the car's efficiency. In the winter I can expect 240+ Wh/mi when it's below 30f, and in ideal temps (75-85f) I routinely manage under 200 Wh/mi on my 100 mile roundtrip commute. Assuming I could tap into the current 52.4 kWh battery at my lifetime average 212 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a real-world range of 247.1 miles. It's been fairly warm for most of the winter so far, so my lifetime efficiency has actually improved since my last update.
My charging is mostly Level 2 from a Grizzl-E delivering 24 amps on a 40 amp circuit in my garage. I charge most nights due to a long commute, typically to about 70-80% a few times per week and a 100% once or twice a week. I do fast charge about once per week on average because I'm a beekeeper and I make honey deliveries across a few counties most weekends...I use both Superchargers and CCS chargers like Electrify America or Chargepoint, depending on which are more convenient at the time.
Tessie says I've spent $1,004.12 on electricity driving the car, while the same distance in my old Ford Focus would've cost $3,916.39 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 26% compared to keeping my old car. Assuming the average US emissions of 0.85 pounds CO2 per kWh, the 8.497 kWh used while driving equates to 7,222 pounds of CO2 spent driving my Tesla. If I'd kept my 2012 Ford Focus (37mpg), I would've used 1,081 gallons of gas to travel these 40,004 miles. At about 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon, that would've been 20,539 pounds of CO2. So I'm spewing 35% of the carbon emissions than I would've released in my efficient little Focus. As the grid moves toward more renewables, that should only get better over the life of the car. Also, my Focus would've had 230,000 miles on it now, so I'm pretty sure I'd have replaced it--in that sense, the argument that keeping the old car instead of buying a new EV has kinda vanished. Also, I sold my Focus to a guy who was looking for a fuel efficient car to replace his truck for commuting, so it was win-win as far as I'm concerned.
I'll try to post another update at 45,000 miles. We should be at the tail end of the coldest part of our winter by then, so my efficiency will be taking a hit.
at 5 months? I have LFP batteries powering my whole house. they don't degrade that fast
I received my car mid May 22. I'm now at 428 Kms at 100%. Which in miles is 266
Started at 438 kms which gives me about 2.28% degradation.
And I'm in a cold place.
You show the same 2.28%
every day for the last 8 years , but I do my best to keep. them above 50% SOC. they're the sole source of power for our home
Can I ask a Noob question on supercharging an M3 LFP? Do you in fact attempt to charge to 100% on the level 3 superchargers? Or is it a waste of time (as it slows down when it gets to 80%?). I see that the 80-100% charging takes roughly 40 minutes vs. 20-80% that takes 20 minutes?
I’d almost stop more often instead just to charge to 80% but I don’t know if that’s not great for an LFP battery.
The fastest way to travel is to Supercharge enough to get to your next destination once the rate starts slowing down significantly. That's usually between 60-80% depending on the speed and distance to the next Supercharger.
If you're worried about accelerating battery degradation when doing this - I would not - these are relatively rare events unless you do a lot of Supercharging.
Even then, LFP cells are really good at handling deep cycles, so depth of cycle is not a concern with your car.
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