Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[ModelNforNerd]

FYI all:


After all the huffing and puffing, the code is already gone from my MyTesla page, including the option to enter CC information.

Looks like we've been trolled again.

 

[ohmman]

I see you don't have many posts, and are new here....so....

I completely understand that part. I was talking about long distance travel, ya know....when you're NOT home, and are at the mercy of Tesla's Supercharging placement.

If the per kWh price that TESLA CHARGES is higher than an equivalent amount of gas, why bother?

I actually agree with @cronosx here. It doesn't have to be cheaper than gas for long distance travel if the driving factor is the fueling cost. Since most people charge at home for the vast majority of their miles, a Supercharger fee nearly equivalent to gas would barely dent your lifetime average. For road warriors, it would make a bigger difference, but they would be incentivized to purchase the unlimited plan.

The trouble with making it too cheap is that Tesla needs to make enough to fund new locations and maintain existing locations. If the margins truly are slim enough that they have to decouple the entire network from the price of the 3, that implies that there's not revenue to direct at the network. I would think they'd want to make sure the unlimited package looks attractive enough relative to the credits. The best way to do that is to make the credits not so cheap that everyone chooses them.

 

[cronosx]

I see you don't have many posts, and are new here....so....

not really.. but if you want to see so..

I completely understand that part. I was talking about long distance travel, ya know....when you're NOT home, and are at the mercy of Tesla's Supercharging placement.

You understand only some part of my point, the point is: i don't care if some time in the years i pay almot what a normal car pay during this travel, it's so much better driving in a tesla that i would gladly pay the same, given that in the rest of the time i pay only a small fraction of it
And of course, "the same as gas station" it's probably related to a prius, not a car with the same performance of a model 3/S, so what's the problem?

You do a lot of travel with the need of supercharger? then you will surely have an "unlimited package" ( like now )

I would say that the service they give it's so superior to the other chademo/whatever charging station that it's worth the cost, and of course it's will be cheaper than them ( actually for what i see they ask more than what you would have paid for the gas )

Keep in mind that if you do a 400miles trip, you are starting from home with 200miles on you "tank", so it's really only half the trip you need to pay "like a gas car", you see my point?


Said that, i tought in italy we are screwed pretty bad with the law, but you.. you are really screwed with this "you can't sell electricity" "you can't sell your car without a dealer" etc, i don't want to enter in this pit of doom, in europe i'm half sure this problem will not persiste, so they could simply make it in one way for europe and do it in another way in US

 

[ModelNforNerd]

not really.. but if you want to see so..

You understand only some part of my point, the point is: i don't care if some time in the years i pay almot what a normal car pay during this travel, it's so much better driving in a tesla that i would gladly pay the same, given that in the rest of the time i pay only a small fraction of it
And of course, "the same as gas station" it's probably related to a prius, not a car with the same performance of a model 3/S, so what's the problem?

You do a lot of travel with the need of supercharger? then you will surely have an "unlimited package" ( like now )

I would say that the service they give it's so superior to the other chademo/whatever charging station that it's worth the cost, and of course it's will be cheaper than them ( actually for what i see they ask more than what you would have paid for the gas )

Keep in mind that if you do a 400miles trip, you are starting from home with 200miles on you "tank", so it's really only half the trip you need to pay "like a gas car", you see my point?


Said that, i tought in italy we are screwed pretty bad with the law, but you.. you are really screwed with this "you can't sell electricity" "you can't sell your car without a dealer" etc, i don't want to enter in this pit of doom, in europe i'm half sure this problem will not persiste, so they could simply make it in one way for europe and do it in another way in US

My trips, when I take them are in the 400-600 (one way) mile range, plus any driving around in the destination area, so it's possible I'd be putting 800-1200 miles on in roughly a week's time.

 

[dsvick]

Tesla can't sell you electricity in many places in the US.

True, but regardless of what language they end up using or how they do the accounting, it is the electricity they are ultimately selling and it will have a cost that not only varies over time but by location as well.

So really, at this point, they just snuck some code onto the site to stir us up and gauge reactions.

Yes, yes they did. I agree, I really don't think this was an accident. It was probably equal parts "let's post it and see what everyone thinks" and "we've got nothing else to keep them occupied, let's post this for a few hours".

 

[cronosx]

My trips, when I take them are in the 400-600 (one way) mile range, plus any driving around in the destination area, so it's possible I'd be putting 800-1200 miles on in roughly a week's time.

So pay the fee "pay one and get it forever" what's the problem? you're covered.
I do a small numbers of long drive in a years, so for me it's super cool, we're both covered and both happy, what's the problem in it?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

So pay the fee "pay one and get it forever" what's the problem? you're covered.
I do a small numbers of long drive in a years, so for me it's super cool, we're both covered and both happy, what's the problem in it?

They just need to be careful with the pricing model. If they go to PPU, where they slot the cost will be key in either seeing people adopt it, or abandon their Model 3 reservations.

Because for as informed as most of us on these forums are, there are many who currently have a Model 3 reserved who aren't as informed, and will be easily dissuaded.

 

[cronosx]

So it's really a marketing problem from you prospective, it they see that the supercharger cost like a gas station and they don't understand that you charge at home, not at the supercharger so they would say "noo! if it's not cheaper why bother, i buy an ICE" ?
Yes.. it could be a problem, but i don't doubt that tesla can present it in the good way so this would not be a real problem, but i ( finally ) got your point

 

[PJFW8]

Perspective has a lot to do with this discussion. I will use the supercharger network 2 or 3 times each year. That is 15 or 20 charging sessions each year. I am looking for the ability to travel, not savings compared to gasoline. My main charging station is my garage. I have been driving a plug-in (CMax Energi and Fusion Energi)for 4 years and only use gas on trips. Pay as you go works for me here in North Carolina. Cost per session is relatively less important.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

So it's really a marketing problem from you prospective, it they see that the supercharger cost like a gas station and they don't understand that you charge at home, not at the supercharger so they would say "noo! if it's not cheaper why bother, i buy an ICE" ?
Yes.. it could be a problem, but i don't doubt that tesla can present it in the good way so this would not be a real problem, but i ( finally ) got your point

Yes, there are a lot of people who have reserved Model 3's, who cannot likely afford to go too far beyond the $35,000 base price, who live in the city, and do not have a home charging solution. Many have figured they would just use the Supercharging network for free. There may be a lot of that group who now opt for another vehicle instead.

 

[MiamiNole]

I just hope that they continue to allow unlimited supercharging to be baked into an option (larger battery) or being purchasable outright. I made a post earlier about how my current driving habits would be cause enough to warrant going for the unlimited option, but it got moved to another topic (ohmman, can you move it back over here? The conversation has continued in this topic!). And as ModelNforNerd stated, that's not even bringing in the possibility of being incentivized to do even more long distance traveling in a Tesla given the ease and convenience of supercharging (AND Autopilot!!!).

Plus, what ever happened to the discussions about it being important for Tesla to get as much money as possible up front in order to continue to build out the SC network? Isn't that the bulk of their SC costs? I doubt they would be limiting that option to the Model S and X. With so much more sales of Model 3 expected, wouldn't it make sense for them to leverage as much of those Model 3 sales as possible to get as much revenue up front as possible to continue to build out the SC network?

 

[cronosx]

If they intended to use the supercharger for "normal charging" i would say that the car wasn't fit for them, it's not susteinable, an electric car is intended for charging at night.
They would have had a really really bad experience it would have been more hassle than that is worth, so if this is the case i would say that it's ok for them to get the money back insted of having a miserable car

 

[PJFW8]

Yes, there are a lot of people who have reserved Model 3's, who cannot likely afford to go too far beyond the $35,000 base price, who live in the city, and do not have a home charging solution. Many have figured they would just use the Supercharging network for free. There may be a lot of that group who now opt for another vehicle instead.

True, but you underscore why alternative options will be more important for the mass marketed Model 3 than for the up-market S and X. A person in a condo in a large city and one with a garage in a suburb may be in the same economic class but willhave very different charging needs and challenges.

 

[garsh]

I actually agree with @cronosx here. It doesn't have to be cheaper than gas for long distance travel if the driving factor is the fueling cost.

If I own a Tesla and another vehicle, I want supercharging to be cheaper. Otherwise, I have no incentive to take the Tesla on my long trips.

Furthermore, I've been thinking about eventually replacing my second vehicle with another Tesla. But if supercharging is more expensive than gasoline, I would definitely not bother going electric-only.

Remember, supercharging is a means to an end. It's to help show that electric cars can be better than combustion cars. Having electricity cost more than gas will set back the progress they're making.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

True, but you underscore why alternative options will be more important for the mass marketed Model 3 than for the up-market S and X. A person in a condo in a large city and one with a garage in a suburb may be in the same economic class but willhave very different charging needs and challenges.

So then why make EV adoption an uphill battle for people with certain needs and challenges?

Anyway, right now, it's all at best speculation, and at worst, a moot point.

The website code has been rolled back.

 

[ohmman]

If I own a Tesla and another vehicle, I want supercharging to be cheaper. Otherwise, I have no incentive to take the Tesla on my long trips.

Furthermore, I've been thinking about eventually replacing my second vehicle with another Tesla. But if supercharging is more expensive than gasoline, I would definitely not bother going electric-only.

Remember, supercharging is a means to an end. It's to help show that electric cars can be better than combustion cars. Having electricity cost more than gas will set back the progress they're making.

Your Tesla will likely provide the incentive to take it on the road trip, free or pay.

If Supercharging is more expensive than gasoline, you wouldn't have two Teslas because... you only take one on road trips? The math still works out in your favor if you're charging at home most of the time. That seems like a really odd prioritization, unless one car is always reserved for road trips.

What I want is for Supercharging to continue to spread, be maintained, and improve in its ability. I also want Tesla Motors to continue to exist as a company so that I have vehicle support. Saying "it needs to be cheaper than gas just because" doesn't tell me how that revenue will support the network. Clearly there's not enough margin in the vehicle price, or they wouldn't decouple. So where does it come from?

 

[cronosx]

Remember, supercharging is a means to an end. It's to help show that electric cars can be better than combustion cars. Having electricity cost more than gas will set back the progress they're making.

Not really.. the supercharges it's here to ENABLE the car to travel long distance, not to do it in a ways that's cheaper than the alternative, if it's cheaper the better, if not, you are free to use your ice car if you really ( really! ) think it will be cheaper, but as said, even if it cost like a prius, you are getting a ferrari performance in a prius consumption, so really..?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Your Tesla will likely provide the incentive to take it on the road trip, free or pay.

If Supercharging is more expensive than gasoline, you wouldn't have two Teslas because... you only take one on road trips? The math still works out in your favor if you're charging at home most of the time. That seems like a really odd prioritization, unless one car is always reserved for road trips.

What I want is for Supercharging to continue to spread, be maintained, and improve in its ability. I also want Tesla Motors to continue to exist as a company so that I have vehicle support. Saying "it needs to be cheaper than gas just because" doesn't tell me how that revenue will support the network. Clearly there's not enough margin in the vehicle price, or they wouldn't decouple. So where does it come from?

I think we're all getting worked up over nothing at this point.

We're letting speculation run wild on source code that didn't link to any live functionality.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Not really.. the supercharges it's here to ENABLE the car to travel long distance, not to do it in a ways that's cheaper than the alternative, if it's cheaper the better, if not, you are free to use your ice car if you really ( really! ) think it will be cheaper, but as said, even if it cost like a prius, you are getting a ferrari performance in a prius consumption, so really..?

Elon wants EVs to be everyone's primary vehicle.

your "free to use your ice car" mentality doesn't fit his model of enabling sustainable transport.

 

[cronosx]

Elon wants EVs to be everyone's primary vehicle.

your "free to use your ice car" mentality doesn't fit his model of enabling sustainable transport.

again, not really, you continue to miss the point.
i understand that you use your car for long-travel all the time, but you need to understand that it's not the common scenario.
said that, i also said that it will probably be unwise to use the ice car since the comparison was made on a prius ( wich is not exactly an ice car ) but you really this it is, you can go and use your ice car, if you really think it will be cheaper
but again ( and this is the 3° times ) you don't need to be cheaper EVERY DAMN TIME, you need to be cheaper on average!

with the time even the supercharger would be a lot cheaper since we hope that the eletrcity bill will be lower due to more renowable energy like off-shore turbine, battery to fix the problem of high peak moments, solar panel everywhere etc, but even in the case that FOR NOW it would cost the same as a prius DURING THE LONG TRAVEL it will be ok.