Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[Garlan Garner]

A. Most Superchargers are not that crowded. I make a habit of pulling into Supercharger locations when I have the chance, perhaps 50 times so far, and I have yet to see one without open stalls. I know anecdote not data.

B. Everyone who bought an S with a bigger battery along with everyone who bought an X had supercharging included at no extra price.

So SC's aren't that crowded? hmmmm. interesting.

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

So SC's aren't that crowded? hmmmm. interesting.

What is your point. Do you have evidence of widespread Supercharger crowding?

 

[Garlan Garner]

What is your point. Do you have evidence of widespread Supercharger crowding?

The evidence is this forum. This very thread.....and others.

And Teslas supposed free-idle fine/charge.

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

The evidence is this forum. This very thread.....and others.

And Teslas supposed free-idle fine/charge.

Yeah, not so much. Virtually all of the complaints of crowding are related to a few Supercharger locations in California.

 

[FlatSix911]

Fixed

I'm not sure what the smugness is about.
The code is already gone, and last time we combed source code (the reservation number fiasco), it proved nothing.
When the truth is actually revealed, maybe then I'll be free.

No smugness, just the truth. Tesla has already tipped their hand on their future intentions.
No amount of wishing is going to make Model 3 Supercharging free... it will be pay to play.

 

[Garlan Garner]

No smugness, just the truth. Tesla has already tipped their hand on their future intentions.
No amount of wishing is going to make Model 3 Supercharging free... it will be pay to play.

Supercharging has NEVER been free so I don't know what you are talking about..

What is your source concerning Supercharging never being free? Is that your wish?

 

[cronosx]

But I remember seeing posts in the Model S forum where Model S owners were told by Tesla that using Superchargers if you don't have home charging is fine.

For them its fine, for the driver? Not so much. In this case you are probably better with an Unlimited package but again its a pain to charge every time at supercharger.. it negate half the joy of the car and it shows all the pain. It coul be only a fan boy choice ..

 

[ohmman]

Supercharging has NEVER been free so I don't know what you are talking about..

Well, it's been included in the price of all Tesla X, and almost all Model S vehicles to date. The exception being the early S60s. Most people called that free. And to use @Red Sage's phrasing, it was something like "Free (of additional fees)".

 

[mhan00]

Yeah, not so much. Virtually all of the complaints of crowding are related to a few Supercharger locations in California.

Which are early signs of what other super charger locations will be like once enough cars are on the road. California is having these issues because it is BY FAR Tesla's largest market. If the Model III is as successful as Tesla hopes, those issues will start impacting other areas (and other areas have already been affected, as can be seen in several threads here and on Reddit). Plus, Tesla has to worry about CA issues because, again, it's by far the largest market for Teslas so far and I'm sure Tesla aspires to have Teslas be as in demand everywhere as they are here. California's issues today

And even if only a few areas had long waits only during popular travel times, that's still horrible optics for Tesla as they try to appeal to people who aren't EV fanatics. Their claim that super chargers enable long range travel with only a Minor inconvenience compared to ICE vehicles takes a big hit with people who are neutral to EVs or even those who are just interested but not true believers if people who want to travel with their families for road trips encounter crazy long waits. It won't matter to them that it's only during holidays that locations are busy since the rare road trips they want to take will be during those same holidays. They're popular travel times for a reason.

Tesla is smartly preparing for the future. It's possible that Autopilot 2.0 and snake chargers will be so advanced they can automatically manage queues, but that's extremely doubtful for a whole host of reasons in the near future (liability towards Tesla is a car is damaged while moving, liability towards Tesla if a car ISN'T damaged during an automatic move but an owner claims it is to try to get previous minor damage repaired for free, the fact that Tesla would have to somehow convince property owners to give them more free spots designated solely to Tesla cars to handle super charger overflow, plus the difficulty in actually implementing software that can handle parking lots with all the foot traffic and unexpected situations that can come up many of which would involve pedestrian adults and children, etc). Tesla can try to depend upon social engineering and the good will/public shame of its customers which is unreliable and, as anyone who has worked jobs that involve dealing with numerous members of the public knows, a decent percentage of the population is comprised of entitled assholes who give no craps over how their actions affect others. The easiest way would be to implement a system to charge owners, not only for power, but also for idle time at a charger.

 

[Red Sage]

Nothing has been confirmed yet (hmmm, maybe everyone should start speculative posts that way instead of posting articles that are already outdated.......), but the feeling is that the 100-pack will move into non-performance configs after a few months. That should put max range close to 330 miles on the EPA rating.

There is a disclaimer in the signature of all my posts and I use phrases such as 'I hope', 'I think', and 'I believe' all the time around here... Yet I've been treated as if I am a single cussing rant away from being banned around here for months. People call me arrogant at the drop of a hat, and act as if I am an off-topic unwanted bad influence all the time. It isn't my fault that people don't seem to know what commas and semicolons are for. I won't be making any further concessions beyond occasionally noting:

I am Red Sage, your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Motors Certified Apologist Fanboy and I approve this message.

 

[Red Sage]

Do you have an article this information came from? I just don't see where densities have gone up or prices have come down that dramatically over that time span, whether talking about cells of battery packs. Prices have dropped and densities have gone up but not by those levels. Panasonic started making the NCR18650A in 2009. It could store 3.1 Ah of energy. The cells in the Model S/X being sold today are around 3.55 Ah (they are most likely NCR18650G). That's an increase of 14.5% over 7 years.

The original Panasonic NCR 18650 was introduced in 2006 and could store 2.9Ah of energy.

I'm just curious where your information came from because I heard it somewhere else too.

Honestly, I've been too busy, tired, and accosted by others here of late to mention I rather disagree with some things in your posts. I've left them alone because the required research to support/prove my position is in varied places online and I'm not sure I want to spend the time wrangling them all just to make what would be a pretty minor point. Your numbers may well be correct, but I believe they are also very dated. I had similar discussions with Pungoteague_Dave and he has been insistent for two years at least that there has been ZERO advancement or improvement in Lithium-ion battery technology by Panasonic since like 2004. He didn't admit that was an incorrect position even after I directed him to press releases on Panasonic's website that state otherwise. I would rather not have the same discussions here.

 

[Red Sage]

I wouldn't think that the SC's would be that crowded if only a few purchased SC'ing

They aren't 'that crowded' except in particularly popular locations on busy days, and Tesla has already acted to reduce or eliminate such issues by:

1. Increasing available charging slots where space allowed.
2. Hiring valets to move cars from charging slots as they complete charging.
3. Building new Supercharger locations along similar routes near or between existing Superchargers.

At this point only the most impatient of current Tesla owners remain positively convinced of an impending Supercharger Apocalypse that is destined to take place upon the arrival of Tesla Generation III vehicles driven by the unwashed masses.

 

[Red Sage]

Well, it's been included in the price of all Tesla X, and almost all Model S vehicles to date. The exception being the early S60s. Most people called that free. And to use @Red Sage's phrasing, it was something like "Free (of additional fees)".

It is similar to my expansion upon the notion that the United States Armed Forces had 'Liberated the Iraqi People' some years ago.

See, they were 'Liberated of the responsibility of running or profiting from all those oil wells and petroleum refineries and the associated export business in favor of trusted US corporations.'

Wasn't that nice of us? Of course it was.

In this case, there is video of Elon Musk saying something to the effect of, 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE ( the life of the car).' in regard to Supercharger access for Model S vehicles that were so equipped.

 

[Red Sage]

Which are early signs of what other super charger locations will be like once enough cars are on the road. California is having these issues because it is BY FAR Tesla's largest market. If the Model III is as successful as Tesla hopes, those issues will start impacting other areas (and other areas have already been affected, as can be seen in several threads here and on Reddit). Plus, Tesla has to worry about CA issues because, again, it's by far the largest market for Teslas so far and I'm sure Tesla aspires to have Teslas be as in demand everywhere as they are here. California's issues today

And even if only a few areas had long waits only during popular travel times, that's still horrible optics for Tesla as they try to appeal to people who aren't EV fanatics. Their claim that super chargers enable long range travel with only a Minor inconvenience compared to ICE vehicles takes a big hit with people who are neutral to EVs or even those who are just interested but not true believers if people who want to travel with their families for road trips encounter crazy long waits. It won't matter to them that it's only during holidays that locations are busy since the rare road trips they want to take will be during those same holidays. They're popular travel times for a reason.

Tesla is smartly preparing for the future. It's possible that Autopilot 2.0 and snake chargers will be so advanced they can automatically manage queues, but that's extremely doubtful for a whole host of reasons in the near future (liability towards Tesla is a car is damaged while moving, liability towards Tesla if a car ISN'T damaged during an automatic move but an owner claims it is to try to get previous minor damage repaired for free, the fact that Tesla would have to somehow convince property owners to give them more free spots designated solely to Tesla cars to handle super charger overflow, plus the difficulty in actually implementing software that can handle parking lots with all the foot traffic and unexpected situations that can come up many of which would involve pedestrian adults and children, etc). Tesla can try to depend upon social engineering and the good will/public shame of its customers which is unreliable and, as anyone who has worked jobs that involve dealing with numerous members of the public knows, a decent percentage of the population is comprised of entitled assholes who give no craps over how their actions affect others. The easiest way would be to implement a system to charge owners, not only for power, but also for idle time at a charger.

Wow. I'd like to reply to this in full, but it's kind of hard from a mobile phone. I'm traveling currently, but hope to respond properly when I have a keyboard at hand. Wow.

 

[Red Sage]

No smugness, just the truth. Tesla has already tipped their hand on their future intentions.
No amount of wishing is going to make Model 3 Supercharging free... it will be pay to play.

God. ... No. I just... It sure seems... I'm done. Damn.

 

[mhan00]

They aren't 'that crowded' except in particularly popular locations on busy days, and Tesla has already acted to reduce or eliminate such issues by:

1. Increasing available charging slots where space allowed.
2. Hiring valets to move cars from charging slots as they complete charging.
3. Building new Supercharger locations along similar routes near or between existing Superchargers.

At this point only the most impatient of current Tesla owners remain positively convinced of an impending Supercharger Apocalypse that is destined to take place upon the arrival of Tesla Generation III vehicles driven by the unwashed masses.

The valets can't move the cars as far as I know. They're there just to monitor the cars and hopefully shame owners into not camping.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The valets can't move the cars as far as I know. They're there just to monitor the cars and hopefully shame owners into not camping.

I think he is saying that valets are making sure that cars get moved. Who cares who moves them?

Geesshh people.

 

[Model 3]

Yeah, not so much. Virtually all of the complaints of crowding are related to a few Supercharger locations in California.

... and Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, France...
But yes, mostly the most popular locations on busy days and/or on/in vacation time.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

No smugness, just the truth. Tesla has already tipped their hand on their future intentions.
No amount of wishing is going to make Model 3 Supercharging free... it will be pay to play.

Before we get too deep again, no one ever said Supercharging would be FREE. It's not free now. You pay $2500 bundled in with your larger battery pack....


See...you're looking at this as an all or nothing situation, and that's where you may be wrong.

IMO, they're setting it up to give people the OPTION.

Because on many of these threads, lots of people have said they would rather pay as they go for Supercharging, and that's cool, because everyone's situation is different in regards to use cases, proximity to Superchargers, etc....Once again, Tesla used us as a free focus group, and were receptive to our ideas. (Let's see GM or Ford or any of the German manufacturers do that....)

In the end, there will be 3 options:

Small battery, Pay Per ___ kWH
Large battery, Pay Per ___ kWH
Large battery. Supercharging "for life" bundled in for $2500-3000

Unless you're Elon, stop telling us that your version of the truth is the only truth, because it's probably not.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

B. Everyone who bought an S with a bigger battery along with everyone who bought an X had supercharging included at no extra price.

Yes and no.

The markup on the larger battery pack suggests that S and X owners are paying for Supercharging as a hidden cost. It seems "free", but the extra kWH you're paying for doesn't cost Tesla as much to produce as they're charging for it....that markup is the Supercharging fee.