Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[googlepeakoil]

Reached out to my press contact on if Supercharging will be enabled as standard, and here was the official response:

"All Model 3 will have the capability for Supercharging. We haven't specified (and aren't right now) whether supercharging will be free."

I expect to see clarification and stage 2 of the unveil. I'm 90% sure it won't be free... but I would like a promise of "cheaper than grid" - hopefully "half average local grid price guarantee'd for life for 3... free for X and S forever" and if they do it I'd be 99% sure it'd be cost per KWH not by time... otherwise if you're on a crowded supercharger (and people will know that charge rate falls the more cars are charging) you'd have a lot of peeved people! They might do 100kw/h free per month per car... the rest at grid price. Stop the over-use dead.
Remember Tesla wanted to charge $50 or more for a battery swap - don't make it too expensive Elon !!

 

[googlepeakoil]

This all seems contrary to the model 3 reveal. at 7:21 in the reveal Elon said "With respect to supercharging all model 3's will come with supercharging standard" and then he went on for quite a while about how this was critical to freedom of travel.

To me, that seemed very cut and dry, supercharging will not be an "add on option" it will be standard, even on the base car.

Everyone seems tied up in the finances of whether they can "allow" it. It's Elon's company he's already shown he's not going to do things just for the accountants sake. He wants supercharging to be mandatory that's how it's going to be.

I agree it'll be standard - no cost to enable it... but likely a pay-per-charge model... but if they can promise to be "cheaper than domestic grid". Would like to see "half going domestic grid price in that country". Remember people pay in the UK £0.15 per kw/h... but Tesla can buy the electricity wholesale at a fraction of that - so they can actually make it a cash earner but keep it cheaper than domestic grid !!! They can even generate it on solar and store cheap night-time electricity in the powerpacks!!!

 

[googlepeakoil]

Rather than continue this thread can we just end it by linking to the other dozen threads (some in the S forum) that go round and round with the same arguments? And yes, I can just not read it (beat you to it! ).

no. The S and X are guaranteed to be free for life. At launch of the model 3 this was not said - so 3 is going to be different... we just don't know how!

 

[googlepeakoil]

From what I understand Tesla cannot charge per kWh, they can only charge for time. The one EVSE I have seen walking around Crystal City charges 40 cents a minute and 75 cents for an hour, so you would end up with similar issues where it is cheaper to leave your vehicle on the EVSE for an hour than it is to use if for 30-45 minutes.

Chipotle | Arlington, VA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

why not?
If you go to a supercharger and find it running slow (because maybe it's busy and all bays are full) - then you're going to feel cheated compared to another one that might be running full speed. You'll feel there's an incentive for Tesla to make the grid worse!!! I think it has to be cost per kw/h.

 

[googlepeakoil]

I recently read an article about Tesla partnering up with ORLEN a petrol company from Poland. Orlen has petrol stations all over Poland apparently they will build in superchargers at Orlen stations. I do not understand what's in it for the petrol company. There aren't any SC's in Poland yet but they are planned for this year.

Orlen już stawia ładowarki dla Tesli

Possibly simple - in the UK the margin on selling petrol is small. They say the service shop is where the profit is made. Add a supercharger... bigger shop = more profit as people look to get food and drink from the shop at inflated prices.

 

[Drivin]

If Tesla really wanted to promote EV adoption and not just be another company in it for the fast buck, they would make Supercharging free, just like for the S and X. Otherwise it is just the typical class warfare - the rich get richer and the poor get bills for electricity.

Let's see if Tesla steps up. my bet is that they will.

 

[amb3rgris]

why not?
If you go to a supercharger and find it running slow (because maybe it's busy and all bays are full) - then you're going to feel cheated compared to another one that might be running full speed. You'll feel there's an incentive for Tesla to make the grid worse!!! I think it has to be cost per kw/h.

I've read that certain areas prohibit the "re-sale" of electricity, so you can't have the cost tied directly to the electricity used. I haven't looked into the details, but I imagine it's something that varies (in the US at least) state by state. That much variance in legality in just the US, I think, would make a cost/kwh system confusing and complex.

 

[Fiver]

why not?
If you go to a supercharger and find it running slow (because maybe it's busy and all bays are full) - then you're going to feel cheated compared to another one that might be running full speed. You'll feel there's an incentive for Tesla to make the grid worse!!! I think it has to be cost per kw/h.

I've read before that in some locations the only people allowed to sell electricity by the kw/h is the power utility. You would have to charge by time there to get around this.


/edit amb3rgris beat me to it!

 

[Dogwhistle]

Yeah, I guess most of the pay chargers I hit around here charge by time. That's fine, and it would discourage folks from staying plugged in for an extra hour just to get that last super-slow 5%.

 

[KJD]

As long as gasoline is around 2 dollars a gallon like it is today, Tesla will make sure the superchargers are free or very close to free.
Elon wants to take over the world remember.

 

[Bimbels]

If Tesla really wanted to promote EV adoption and not just be another company in it for the fast buck, they would make Supercharging free, just like for the S and X. Otherwise it is just the typical class warfare - the rich get richer and the poor get bills for electricity.

Let's see if Tesla steps up. my bet is that they will.

How is it class warfare, exactly? S/X owners paid twice as much (or more) for their cars - which is HOW Tesla could bake supercharging into the price of the car. Owners would argue that it is not actually "free" since they paid for it up front.

If anything, S/X owners could say they subsidized the "free" electricity for Model 3 owners. Their purchase of their cars enabled the buildout of the supercharger network. If Tesla cannot bake it into the price of a 35K car and still make a profit, do you expect S/X owners to continue to have it baked into theirs - but you get it for free?

 

[MP3Mike]

free for X and S forever" and if they do it I'd be 99% sure it'd be cost per KWH not by time...

They can't do it by kWh, or at least not in every state, without becoming a utility and being subject to utility board rules. (And the utility board setting the rates that they can charge per kWh.)

Which would mean the prices would be all over the place.

The only reasonable options that I see that they have are:

• Cost built in to the base price
• Flat rate option like on Model S 60
• Per charge cost
• Per minute cost
• Per hook-up + per minute cost

 

[Bimbels]

They can't do it by kWh, or at least not in every state, without becoming a utility and being subject to utility board rules. (And the utility board setting the rates that they can charge per kWh.)

Which would mean the prices would be all over the place.

The only reasonable options that I see that they have are:

• Cost built in to the base price
• Flat rate option like on Model S 60
• Per charge cost
• Per minute cost
• Per hook-up + per minute cost

Have you seen in writing that tesla cannot charge by kWh because it's treated as a utility? Because this is disputed in other threads. Apparently it's how other companies (chargepoint, Etc do it, though around here all the chargepoints near me are free.)

Per minute will not work. If you've ever used a SC, you'll find that chargers slow down when more than one car is charging. Some are just slow for no apparent reason (as happened to me yesterday, charging alone and getting only 80kW instead of the normal 200+. All other bays were ICEd and I had to actually ask a guy to move.) That would be very unfair - to charge per minute when you're getting a slow charge.

 

[MP3Mike]

Have you seen in writing that tesla cannot charge by kWh because it's treated as a utility? Because this is disputed in other threads. Apparently it's how other companies (chargepoint, Etc do it, though around here all the chargepoints near me are free.)

It varies by state. You will find that in some states ChargePoint charges by kWh and minute, and in others they just charge by minute.

 

[Bimbels]

There is a thread discussing this on the tesla forum - and they're pretty adamant that this would not be an issue. Maybe they mean there would be an alternate fair method in states that do not allow by kWh.

But more important is the fact that supercharger times vary based on other cars, temperature, or just not working as well. Which is why a per minute structure would not be implemented, IMO. Whatever tesla decides, it will be fair.

 

[Az_Rael]

Here was an article from 2012 that talks some about the charging by kWh being illegal in most states.

Charged EVs | Proceed with caution: charging for EV charging

And Blink lists the states that allow kWh charging vs /minute. Blink - Membership FAQs

 

[MP3Mike]

Here was an article from 2012 that talks some about the charging by kWh being illegal in most states.

Charged EVs | Proceed with caution: charging for EV charging

And Blink lists the states that allow kWh charging vs /minute. Blink - Membership FAQs

Thanks for posting the links, I was just about to go looking for them.

 

[FlatSix911]

probably following current Supercharging is enabled (no additional cost) on every 70 kWh, 85 kWh, and 90 kWh and future 90+ kWh.

$2,500USD Available on 60 kWh only. Not available on 40 kWh cars

Supercharging will be available on the Model 3 exactly like the way the Model S was introduced in 2013

 

[theatwar99]

Apologies if this has already been suggested, but one possible solution to Supercharger abuse is to charge for access if the Supercharger station is within 75 miles of your home address.

 

[purplewalt]

Apologies if this has already been suggested, but one possible solution to Supercharger abuse is to charge for access if the Supercharger station is within 75 miles of your home address.

Uhm, respectfully No.
Your hypothetical "within 75 miles of your home address" is not realistic for Texas and many other vicinities.
At least as the Supercharger network stands right now.

There are several areas (e.g.: East Texas) I visit and that I can get to and return ONLY if I Supercharge 50 miles away from my home.
Because just past that, it is a very real "Supercharger Desert", and I prefer NOT to rely RV Parks and the occasional 120V outlet to renew my charge.

IF I had the luxury of Superchargers being available "ala California", then perhaps the fee would be warranted.